Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[jerseyjinx94]

Lafreniere is below pre-draft expectations. You can’t defend that, and shouldn’t. He was billed as an immediate impact player, 60+ points as a rookie.

However, that doesn’t mean he’s completely useless and should be traded. He can break out any minute with his talent. “When talent meets opportunity” is a real thing. You cannot ignore the differences in opportunity between him and other 1OAs.

Why is there never any context or nuance anymore? Is it bc of tiktok?

 

[bhamill]

Lafreniere is below pre-draft expectations. You can’t defend that, and shouldn’t. He was billed as an immediate impact player, 60+ points as a rookie.

However, that doesn’t mean he’s completely useless and should be traded. He can break out any minute with his talent. “When talent meets opportunity” is a real thing. You cannot ignore the differences in opportunity between him and other 1OAs.

Why is there never any context or nuance anymore? Is it bc of tiktok?

Yes absolutely. Personally I was hoping for a 50pt full season in his D+1 and obviously that didn’t happen. That doesn’t mean I thought he was a bust, it meant he wasn’t ready to do that yet. I get amazed at some of the things people say, he’s not cutting it in this league, never be more than a bottom six player, we should trade him while his value is “high”… Just wild. Hahahaha.

 

[bhamill]

Expecting a first overall to perform and look the part before three years has past is not a high expectation at all

True. And right now he’s looking the part and it hasn’t been three years past yet. Saying you see the upside and the progress doesn’t mean you deny you wanted and expected quicker development. Those things aren’t mutually exclusive.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Lafreniere is below pre-draft expectations. You can’t defend that, and shouldn’t. He was billed as an immediate impact player, 60+ points as a rookie.

However, that doesn’t mean he’s completely useless and should be traded. He can break out any minute with his talent. “When talent meets opportunity” is a real thing. You cannot ignore the differences in opportunity between him and other 1OAs.

Why is there never any context or nuance anymore? Is it bc of tiktok?

TikTok is cultural cancer and every red blooded American should uninstall and block it.

As for Laf, I'd generally agree he hasn't lived up to expectations because the expectations for him were quite high. However, what I see is someone who is growing into his body who, when he becomes strong, still has the ability be a dominant player. But I also see someone who's less engaged in certain games and shifts than he should be, who would benefit from a more consistent high level of intensity that he is capable of displaying. Granted, that takes a toll on one's body, so he needs to condition himself so that it doesn't and also selectively apply that intensity to creating scoring chances, and through defense where his actions have the ability to stop a great scoring chance. If he paces himself for the other parts of a shift, he'll save his body and stamina for the key parts of his shifts, and it'll get him a lot more points. All the great players do this. He doesn't need to become a wrecking ball of energy, but he does need to be one of those players that always seems to play faster and harder with the puck on his stick.

I'm not worried about him - he's got plenty of time to develop, and anyone pushing to trade him is an idiot.

To compare him with some other Rangers at 21:
-Artemi Panarin was fresh off his worst season in the KHL (<.5PPG)
-Zibanejad was fresh off a career year 46 point season (also, his D+4) following 33 the year before in D+3.
-Kreider had 3 NHL points.
-Tarasenko had 19 points in 38 games.
-Buchnevich had 20 points in 41 games and couldn't stay in the lineup.

It's clear this team doesn't develop forwards quickly, but I do see strides in his game not the least of which is his playmaking. In a different scenario where he's one of the team's top stars, he's already a 60 point player based on his current skill (and no telling what he'd be if the added ice time and scoring responsibility triggered further skill development). Don't underestimate how much not being a key guy on the PP is to a guy's stats. Those guys all get 10 PPA's a year just for farting on the puck.

 

[DanielBrassard]

So cutting it, means meeting your expectation? Hahahaha. The guy is an NHLer. He’s scoring 0.5ppg, is 9th on a team with Panarin, Zib, Taresenko, Kane and Fox on it... I don’t think “cutting it” means what you think it does.

If you think cutting it is half a point per game as a 1st overall, in his D+3, you must have had really low expectations for Lafreniere in the first place.

 

[bhamill]

If you think cutting it is half a point per game as a 1st overall, in his D+3, you must have had really low expectations for Lafreniere in the first place.

He said “cutting it in this league.” Not “cutting it as a 1OA” as if that was a non subjective call when talking about a player in his D+3. Lafreniere is already cutting it in this league by any reasonable objective criteria. 19 EV goals as a 20 year old and likely to pass that and score better than 0.5ppg as a 21 year old.
Ive already stated that MY expectation was 50 pts as a rookie if there was a full season. So no he hasn’t met my expectations. So what? He’s still cutting it in this league. That’s a ridiculous statement

 

[DanielBrassard]

He said “cutting it in this league.” Not “cutting it as a 1OA” as if that was a non subjective call when talking about a player in his D+3. Lafreniere is already cutting it in this league by any reasonable objective criteria. 19 EV goals as a 20 year old and likely to pass that and score better than 0.5ppg as a 21 year old.
Ive already stated that MY expectation was 50 pts as a rookie if there was a full season. So no he hasn’t met my expectations. So what? He’s still cutting it in this league. That’s a ridiculous statement

I mean I guess he's cutting it because he's in the NHL but if a 1st overall, D+3 mediocre offensive player who is below average defensively and who's producing at a middling rate qualifies as "cutting it" for you, as I said you have an extremely low expectations for him. And yes his draft position matters. He's a slightly above replacement level hockey player. You can find a lot of those players all around the league. Except with those guys at least I wouldn't have to hear people whining about how the coaching staff is suppressing their latent superstardom.

I've also seen you hanging your hat on his 19 even strength goals for some reason, always neglecting the fact that came with an extremely high SH% that clearly isn't repeatable and his troubling lack of assists and overall playmaking ability which is what he was supposed to be known for. Which is an issue that still exists right now.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

a)crack 40 or more pts this season
b) several 40-50 pt consistent seasons as a 3rd liner part time 2nd liner

as a 1OA yeah he's bust in that regard . as a potential decent quality serviceable line mate start with a) first and then we'll see. if no a and b this guy becomes our version of anthony beauvillier,

 

[Alluckks]

Is he meeting your expectations? Be honest.

You said he hasn't been able to cut it in the league, but move the goal posts more lol

 

[bhamill]

I mean I guess he's cutting it because he's in the NHL but if a 1st overall, D+3 mediocre offensive player who is below average defensively and who's producing at a middling rate qualifies as "cutting it" for you, as I said you have an extremely low expectations for him. And yes his draft position matters. He's a slightly above replacement level hockey player. You can find a lot of those players all around the league. Except with those guys at least I wouldn't have to hear people whining about how the coaching staff is suppressing their latent superstardom.

I've also seen you hanging your hat on his 19 even strength goals for some reason, always neglecting the fact that came with an extremely high SH% that clearly isn't repeatable and his troubling lack of assists and overall playmaking ability which is what he was supposed to be known for. Which is an issue that still exists right now.

He’s not just in the league. And no, his draft position does not matter as to whether he is merely “cutting it in this league.” That’s pure subjective revisionism. He is UNQUESTIONABLY cutting it in this league.
Hanging my hat? Hahaha. I’m merely stating a fact. He scored 19 goals at even strength as a 20 year old. That is NOT a thing a player who “isn’t cutting it in this league” can accomplish. Hanging my hat on it. Haha. If I had done that, sure, I’d be hanging my hat on it. Yes. High shooting percentage. So? He’s going to likely match or better it this year with a much lower percentage. What’s your point? How does this point to him “not cutting it in the league”?
I called out a f***ing ridiculous statement. The fact that you want to argue it speaks volumes about a bias. I’m not here trying to convince you he’s a star or even a star in the making, but if you can say he’s not cutting it in this league and keep a straight face, to be honest, I don’t think there’s any point to discussing it with you.

 

[Megustaelhockey]

We picked a player who is being easily upstaged by not one but multiple players who were picked after him in the same draft. What's astonishing to me is that people think being a regular in the league is good enough for that pick... and that we're still discussing it years later.

 

[Game suspension]

Haven't watched him much but noticed he was hearing foot steps in his own end and quickly gave away the puck when he had time. Is he afraid to get hit ?

 

[n8]

Laf is doing well but as the #1OA, I don't think he's met our expectations. But honestly, he'd have to be scoring like Stutzle to meet our fan expectations.

 

[bhamill]

We picked a player who is being easily upstaged by not one but multiple players who were picked after him in the same draft. What's astonishing to me is that people think being a regular in the league is good enough for that pick... and that we're still discussing it years later.

Who said it’s good enough? Everyone wanted/wants more. Not all of us resort to irrational hyperbole and start declaring players not cutting it in this league because after 200 NHL games he’s not where we want him to be. Hahaha.

 

[ReddestRum]

As a 1OA, he's not even close as to what has been hoped of him in his 3rd season if we're going by the reasons he was 1OA to begin with.

As a 3rd line grinder who racks up as much penalty minutes as points, he's right on track.

 

[2014nyr]

Laf is doing well but as the #1OA, I don't think he's met our expectations. But honestly, he'd have to be scoring like Stutzle to meet our fan expectations.

hes looked great and dont want to take anything away from him, but little different situation he walked into. and by little i mean very.

also a very different skillset, not surprising he was able to produce more sooner with his skating. not everyone has the same timeline, fast starts dont win games. look at how many teams have blown 3-0 and 4-0 type early leads this season alone...youd rather have the lead than trail sure, but its far from game over. lafs skillset is different, hes in a different situation, he will get to his time if this team is smart enough to let him do so here. let him cook.

 

[bhamill]

As a 1OA, he's not even close as to what has been hoped of him in his 3rd season if we're going by the reasons he was 1OA to begin with.

As a 3rd line grinder who racks up as much penalty minutes as points, he's right on track.

Except he’s 21 and not a finished project after a whole 200 NHL games. Hahaha. I know that’s inconvenient. I find it bizarre how there’s no middle ground between he hasn’t lived up to expectations and “he’s on track to be a 3rd line grinder,” which is quite the hot take. I mean he’s already pretty much a 2nd liner on any team that doesn’t have 5 forwards that are all star level ahead of him. But whatever. My point was that saying he’s not cutting it in this league is flat out false. Disappointing as to his draft position or not.

 

[SickNice]

Doesn't help that the 1 OA the year before plays across the river and will be a Hart finalist this year...

 

[ReddestRum]

Doesn't help that the 1 OA the year before plays across the river and will be a Hart finalist this year...

Kind of funny though with Hughes.

5 birth months apart.
28 games played difference between them.
103 point difference.

Mercer who is in Laf's draft class at #18.

16 days younger than Laf.
52 less games played in his D+2.
7 more points and on his way to 50.

The Devils #1 and #18 are what I hoped our #1 and #2 would be personally. Devils look scary as f*** and a PO series against them would be interesting, but I'm thinking their kids skate all over ours.

If Laf can reach 50 this season I would be overwhelmingly and pleasantly surprised.

 

[ReddestRum]

Except he’s 21 and not a finished project after a whole 200 NHL games. Hahaha. I know that’s inconvenient. I find it bizarre how there’s no middle ground between he hasn’t lived up to expectations and “he’s on track to be a 3rd line grinder,” which is quite the hot take. I mean he’s already pretty much a 2nd liner on any team that doesn’t have 5 forwards that are all star level ahead of him. But whatever. My point was that saying he’s not cutting it in this league is flat out false. Disappointing as to his draft position or not.

I mean, it's pretty damn inconvenient for the team when your young players are to be considered depth players, and they are so randomly hot and cold for long stretches that you have no idea when you are going to get a consistent performance out of them. I mean, I'm not really sweating it. I know what the dark ages for the team looks like, and after these pushes for the cup runs, if our kids are only gunning for 30-40 points a season, we're going to be right back in the dark.

 

[bhamill]

I mean, it's pretty damn inconvenient for the team when your young players are to be considered depth players, and they are so randomly hot and cold for long stretches that you have no idea when you are going to get a consistent performance out of them. I mean, I'm not really sweating it. I know what the dark ages for the team looks like, and after these pushes for the cup runs, if our kids are only gunning for 30-40 points a season, we're going to be right back in the dark.

Well, Laf, KK and Chytil are all on better than 40 point pace right now, Chytil more than 50, but beside that you speak as if THIS is it… as if they won’t all improve. Especially a 21 year old who has had only one full season so far (his first being COVID truncated and this one only 3/4 complete).
Listen, of course you are entitled to your take, if you think this is it and our young players are only gunning for 30-40 point seasons in their careers, thats your right. However expecting anyone else to believe that when they are already over performing that mark AND it’s reasonable to believe that 21-23 year olds that are only just getting more responsibility and pp time now, are far from finished products, might not be feasible.
I’m not sure what else to say. I’m not even sure how this is the track we got onto. what I called out was the ridiculous proclamation that Lafreniere was not cutting it in this league, because it’s objectively wrong. I think the poster who said that actually started moving the goalposts but it doesn’t matter now. The rest of it, what we BELIEVE these players will or won’t become is subjective. Time will tell. If they all bomb out, and/or top out in the bottom six for their careers, I’ll be first to say I was f***in wrong. Hahaha.

 

[Callafan24]

I for one think we're kinda lucky that Chytil, Laf, Kakko have taken time to develop (in Middle-6 roles).

It helps us stay under the cap and surround them with top-end talent like Patrick Kane, Tarasenko, etc... so we can compete for championships.

If you put them on PP1 and fed them top-line minutes, then we'd have to pay them more and we wouldn't be able to fit everyone.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I for one think we're kinda lucky that Chytil, Laf, Kakko have taken time to develop (in Middle-6 roles).

It helps us stay under the cap and surround them with top-end talent like Patrick Kane, Tarasenko, etc... so we can compete for championships.

If you put them on PP1 and fed them top-line minutes, then we'd have to pay them more and we wouldn't be able to fit everyone.

On the other hand them, especially the wonder twins, underperforming has forced the Rangers to go out and spend assets on guys like Tarasenko and Kane instead of holding onto them and continuing to refill the pipeline with cheap talent.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Kind of funny though with Hughes.

5 birth months apart.
28 games played difference between them.
103 point difference.

Mercer who is in Laf's draft class at #18.

16 days younger than Laf.
52 less games played in his D+2.
7 more points and on his way to 50.

The Devils #1 and #18 are what I hoped our #1 and #2 would be personally. Devils look scary as f*** and a PO series against them would be interesting, but I'm thinking their kids skate all over ours.

If Laf can reach 50 this season I would be overwhelmingly and pleasantly surprised.

Their rebuild has surpassed ours and they will be better for years to come. I don't see any way we win a cup and any way they don't unfortunately.

 

[Peltz]

Jack Hughes last night hohum...and we get excited when the kid line cycles the puck in the Ozone. feels bad

Jack Hughes has the insane speed and skating. He’s a star.