Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière: Part III

[IDvsEGO]

This problem is seemingly limited to forwards, because they've developed their goalies and defenseman during this rebuild extremely well imo.

not a single defenseman or goalie played for the team under 20 years old.

 

[McRanger92]

not a single defenseman or goalie played for the team under 20 years old.

Kakko & Lafreniere probably shouldnt have been rushed to the NHL either but that's what happened unfortunately. Maybe that's why they've been slow to develop.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

If the Rangers track record with developing fowards continues to apply with Lafreniere and Kakko, we’ll either see breakout seasons from them a decade from now (i.e Kreider) or they’ll really break out after they’re traded away (i.e Buchnevich, Miller, Duclair)

 

[LokiDog]

It’s a moot point but Stutzle switched over to center 10 games ago and has 11 points in that frame, with some highlight reel goals and dishes. Lafreniere was the consensus #1 pick for any team in that spot, but Stutzle was always going to be my favorite player from the draft. Aside from opportunity, which is a significant part of it (though his linemates are Formenton and Brown, not superstars) the biggest difference between Laf and Stutzle that probably sets Laf back is the skating difference between the two.

Laf was considered the best package of talent in the draft, but Stutzle was also considered highly talented (Byfield was considered more raw but had the size/center intrigue). The talent gap between Laf and Stutzle is probably not significant. Stutzle on the other hand is an elite skater. To some extent (because again, opportunity/ice time, etc.) we’re seeing how skating can be the most important tool in a player’s kit with Laf and Kakko both being average skaters and struggling to make an impact in D+2/D+3.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Horrible management by the rangers, put the f***ing kid on the ice

we are watching the rangers stunt his development in real time

 

[Chaels Arms]

Horrible management by the rangers, put the f***ing kid on the ice

we are watching the rangers stunt his development in real time

That entire thread is very informative and also just painful reading as a Rangers fan.

Ice time is a resource. Like water. If plants don't get water they don't grow. If we don't give these kids ice time they're not going to grow.

Move him to RW and give him 18+ minutes a night for the rest of the season, regardless of how it goes. Let's say he has an absolutely horrible game and then another horrible game after that. You know what Gallant should do? Trot him out the next game for 18+ minutes again. Screw this "earn it" stuff, I don't care if guys like Hunt or Goodrow or Blais are losing minutes to Lafreniere and/or Kakko. I don't even care if it costs the team games this season. We're not winning the cup this year anyway.

If Kakko and Lafreniere don't work out everything this team has done the past few seasons is all for naught anyway.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Maybe there's nothing wrong anywhere, maybe it's just gonna take these kids longer than others and we lack patience. Maybe the problem isn't them.... its us

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

This problem is seemingly limited to forwards, because they've developed their goalies and defenseman during this rebuild extremely well imo.

That's because goalies and defensemen never come over that young. When was the last time this team signed a defenseman at age 18 or 19? (So, for the 1st or 2nd season after being drafted).

Schneider is the first one in a looooong time. Let's see how he does.

 

[Scott r]

Horrible management by the rangers, put the f***ing kid on the ice

we are watching the rangers stunt his development in real time

You don't have enough information to understand why is he isnt on the ice more. You can't have 3 different executives in 2 years and say they are all stunting his development. Quinn, gallant, davidson...Gorton. I understand the fan perspective..but your not capable to know the insides behind what they think of his ability or non ability.

 

[Scott r]

Maybe there's nothing wrong anywhere, maybe it's just gonna take these kids longer than others and we lack patience. Maybe the problem isn't them.... its us

Possibly....and maybe they won't ever be the top player there hype indicated....they both were supposed to be awesome.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

You don't have enough information to understand why is he isnt on the ice more. You can't have 3 different executives in 2 years and say they are all stunting his development. Quinn, gallant, davidson...Gorton. I understand the fan perspective..but your not capable to know the insides behind what they think of his ability or non ability.

And others are of the opinion that you can't have young prospects fail over and over again, yet still blame every individual but not the organisation itself. It's simply too easy to say "Oh well, must be the player again".

5 first rounders, 4 of which were top-10 picks, are all underwhelming. The 6th (Schneider) hasn't played enough for a decent evaluation.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

And others are of the opinion that you can't have young prospects fail over and over again, yet still blame every individual but not the organisation itself. It's simply too easy to say "Oh well, must be the player again".

5 first rounders, 4 of which were top-10 picks, are all underwhelming. The 6th (Schneider) hasn't played enough for a decent evaluation.

Andersson was a dud/bad pick in a weak draft.

Chytil at worst is a middle six forward, not bad for where he was taken.

Kravtsov is a spoiled little twat. Not sure he’s a victim of poor development as much as an inflated ego.

And it’s much to soon to come to any sort of a conclusion on Kakko and Laff. People need to have some patience.

 

[LokiDog]

That entire thread is very informative and also just painful reading as a Rangers fan.

Ice time is a resource. Like water. If plants don't get water they don't grow. If we don't give these kids ice time they're not going to grow.

Move him to RW and give him 18+ minutes a night for the rest of the season, regardless of how it goes. Let's say he has an absolutely horrible game and then another horrible game after that. You know what Gallant should do? Trot him out the next game for 18+ minutes again. Screw this "earn it" stuff, I don't care if guys like Hunt or Goodrow or Blais are losing minutes to Lafreniere and/or Kakko. I don't even care if it costs the team games this season. We're not winning the cup this year anyway.

If Kakko and Lafreniere don't work out everything this team has done the past few seasons is all for naught anyway.

Yes, this. Especially because we realistically need him to be a RW eventually with Kreider and Panarin 100% deserving of their top six roles. If it takes 50 games of growing pains for him to adjust to the right side, so be it. Keep rolling him out there on the RW in the top six night after night. It’s not like we’re scoring at 5v5 anyway.

 

[Scott r]

And others are of the opinion that you can't have young prospects fail over and over again, yet still blame every individual but not the organisation itself. It's simply too easy to say "Oh well, must be the player again".

5 first rounders, 4 of which were top-10 picks, are all underwhelming. The 6th (Schneider) hasn't played enough for a decent evaluation.

It's been going on for many years...https://thehockeywriters.com/ny-rangers-draft-trouble-top-10/

 

[SA16]

The development of forwards is just bad luck. I don't know why we have to try and assign a reason to it. It's been going on for years. So what? Coaches have changed. Management has changed. Scouts have changed. You can come up for a reason for anything if you try hard enough to make a story around something. Sure, several of them are more recent where things may have been more constant but given 32 teams in the league you would expect some of them to have poor results with their prospects and you would expect some of them to have great results. Most will fall in the middle.

Does Lafreniere have the best role in the league? No. But other players have produced in it. He's the only forward with 110+ 5v4 mins since last year with 0 points. The next two are Gagner/Johnsson with 2 points. He's not the only player to get limited minutes on PP2 after PP1 comes off the ice. We make it sound like it's impossible to produce in a 3rd line role. There are 116 forwards under 12 mins 5v5 TOI this year (with 300 total mins played). 11 of them are over 2 pts/60. 25 are over 1.7. It's not impossible to score at a good rate with lesser linemates

 

[mas0764]

Except he can't/doesn't like to play RW and he's NOT better than our first two LW so how does he play with Mika or Ryan without messing with our top two scorers. Explain that to the room.

Kreider or Panarin plays RW.

I'm eyeballing Kreider since he scores mostly in front of the net anyway.

 

[Machinehead]

People will argue he hasn't earned the minutes but here's a hot take -- he doesn't have to.

Part of rebuilding is accepting that you may not always put the best team out when it makes sense for the sake of future development.

And your know what? At this point, we can kind of have our cake and eat it too. It's not like he's taking minutes from Buchnevich and making the team much worse, which was the f***ing point of trading Buchnevich. He's not any worse than Hunt or Goodrow.

I thought we gave up too quickly on moving one of him, Kreider, or Panarin to the right. Panarin doesn't actually play his position anyway.

 

[duhmetreE]

Kreider or Panarin plays RW.

I'm eyeballing Kreider since he scores mostly in front of the net anyway.

It's fine moving Laffy. He'd have more space to create and could be more dynamic on his off wing imo.

I just dont get how, he's playing well with Strome, he was going to get a shot on RW, he gets covid and he's back in the basement.

Hunt coming off of an injury and doing jackshit for months, gets slotted up there right away with Panarin.

It's lunacy. It's just dumb.

 

[mas0764]

It's fine moving Laffy. He'd have more space to create and could be more dynamic on his off wing imo.

I just dont get how, he's playing well with Strome, he was going to get a shot on RW, he gets covid and he's back in the basement.

Hunt coming off of an injury and doing jackshit for months, gets slotted up there right away with Panarin.

It's lunacy. It's just dumb.

I'm over Hunt. He's a zero. He's not Jesper Fast. He's a guy who should be a thirteenth forward.

The problem is we have about 4 of those guys playing every single night.

 

[HonestGabe]

People will argue he hasn't earned the minutes but here's a hot take -- he doesn't have to.

Part of rebuilding is accepting that you may not always put the best team out when it makes sense for the sake of future development.

And your know what? At this point, we can kind of have our cake and eat it too. It's not like he's taking minutes from Buchnevich and making the team much worse, which was the f***ing point of trading Buchnevich. He's not any worse than Hunt or Goodrow.

I thought we gave up too quickly on moving one of him, Kreider, or Panarin to the right. Panarin doesn't actually play his position anyway.

I always felt he would be a good fit with Panarin. Panarin creates a lot of space playing an east-west game. Let the kid play a more open style of hockey on that line and give them time to gel. He'll both create and be on the receiving end of more chances than he would mucking it up on a line with Goodrow and Gauthier.

 

[duhmetreE]

I'm over Hunt. He's a zero. He's not Jesper Fast. He's a guy who should be a thirteenth forward.

The problem is we have about 4 of those guys playing every single night.

Hunt has done minimal to nothing since his game misconduct. Completely different player

 

[Rangers in 7]

You don't have enough information to understand why is he isnt on the ice more. You can't have 3 different executives in 2 years and say they are all stunting his development. Quinn, gallant, davidson...Gorton. I understand the fan perspective..but your not capable to know the insides behind what they think of his ability or non ability.

the kid needs to be on the ice more, there is no question about it....hes better then hunt, goat, goodrow......hes getting minimal ice time and its backed up by facts.....

 

[Anthony5967]

People need to realize that he's blocked by two studs, not an ideal situation for a 1OA pick. But, then again, we were never ever supposed to get this kid. Also, I notice Canucks fans on Twitter, the worst place to be by the way for reasonable discussion, want and believe Laffy will be in a Miller deal. Also, they are calling him a bust. I truly don't get this. How long did it take the Sedin's to hit their stride? If only social media existed then. Yea, if only Vancouver cut bait with both at 20!

 

[Scott r]

the kid needs to be on the ice more, there is no question about it....hes better then hunt, goat, goodrow......hes getting minimal ice time and its backed up by facts.....

I'm confused. ...so your saying the new gm Chris Drury and new coach are having the same problem with the kids as John davidson, Jeff g and Quinn the coach ?? Seems kind of absurd to me to say such a thing.

 

[HonestGabe]

People need to realize that he's blocked by two studs, not an ideal situation for a 1OA pick. But, then again, we were never ever supposed to get this kid. Also, I notice Canucks fans on Twitter, the worst place to be by the way for reasonable discussion, want and believe Laffy will be in a Miller deal. Also, they are calling him a bust. I truly don't get this. How long did it take the Sedin's to hit their stride? Yea, if only Vancouver cut bait with both at 20!

If he's such a bust, and Miller is a "top 15 forward" as they suggest, why would they want such a bust in return?

It's amazing the lengths people go to discredit players in hypotheticals. Is it an ego thing? Fantasy GM roleplaying? I dont get it.