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Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière: Part III

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SloppyCevapi said:
He wasn't really a player that possessed a specific skill that stood out if I remember correctly. He was just advertised as a kid who did everything really well. His biggest strength was his vision/IQ. He scores goals a million different ways. Jack of all trades master of none type.
Click to expand...

But did he? From those highlights I saw:
His speed and skating are average/above average.
His shot is above average.
His vision is above average
His hands are above average.

I'm sorry, but being above average in everything doesn't make you a 1st overall pick. You have to excel in something, especially in the NHL where you get locked into a certain role. I don't know, but I feel like there were red flags already that were missed leading up to the draft. You watch highlight videos of other top prospects and they show you clips that constantly make you jump out of your seat. I just don't see that with Laf.
 
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SloppyCevapi said:
He doesn't have to be flashy to be a top pick. Which is why it's so hard for some people to understand.
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I am not talking about flashy though. I meant he doesn't do much to be noticeable. I don't expect him to be dancing through players, but do something that shows you have an edge against the players you are up against.

Trevor Zegras comes to mind. When you watch his pre-draft highlights, he is noticeable and his talent is apparent. He isn't beating players left and right, but he is making terrific passes and creating space for himself. I watch Laf's highlights and I keep asking myself, what is it he is doing that impresses me, and there is little to pick at.
 
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The New Russian Five said:
I am not talking about flashy though. I meant he doesn't do much to be noticeable. I don't expect him to be dancing through players, but do something that shows you have an edge against the players you are up against.

Trevor Zegras comes to mind. When you watch his pre-draft highlights, he is noticeable and his talent is apparent. He isn't beating players left and right, but he is making terrific passes and creating space for himself. I watch Laf's highlights and I keep asking myself, what is it he is doing that impresses me, and there is little to pick at.
Click to expand...
. Gotta have a tiny bit of patience
 
The New Russian Five said:
Decided to go back and watch some of his highlights from his Junior days. As I am watching, I am asking myself what qualities can I spot out that makes him a 1st overall pick. And honestly, I don't see anything that special. He's not overly fast, or a great skater, a lot of his passes that led to assists are that hard to make. His hands are pretty good and sometimes can make a defender look silly, but doesn't seem to happen more than your run of the mill top 6 player. The one thing that sticks out to me is that he finds himself in scoring position a lot.

Maybe I am missing something, but I just don't see what the hype was about in his draft year. Did everyone just look at his point totals and assume he was a stud?

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Completely agree, I’ve mentioned this game before but watch this and tell me this isn’t the least impressive 7pt game you’ve ever seen.

One goal was literally him flubbing on the puck 3 times in a row and finally getting a bounce
 
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SloppyCevapi said:
He's actually performing right in the middle of the other two in terms of EvS P which is good, while averaging less TOI across the board. Hughes averaged almost two minutes more of PP time, while MacKinnon averaged a full minute more.

Some random context, but you'se need to chill out and have some patience.
Click to expand...

ES goals in first 82 NHL games

Alexis Lafrenière: 18
Evgeni Malkin: 18
Jonathan Toews: 18
Jonathan Huberdeau: 17
David Pastrňák: 17
Jack Eichel: 16
Nathan MacKinnon: 16
Steven Stamkos: 15
Patrick Kane: 14
John Tavares: 13
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
ES goals in first 82 NHL games

Alexis Lafrenière: 18
Evgeni Malkin: 18
Jonathan Toews: 18
Jonathan Huberdeau: 17
David Pastrňák: 17
Jack Eichel: 16
Nathan MacKinnon: 16
Steven Stamkos: 15
Patrick Kane: 14
John Tavares: 13
Click to expand...

what can i say? patience is a virtue the average nyc sports fan sorely lacks.

i may check this out later but without doing so laffy may also have have the least amount of sog's in those 82 ganes.
 
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PANARIN BREAD FAN said:
what can i say? patience is a virtue the average nyc sports fan sorely lacks.

i may check this out later but without doing so laffy may also have have the least amount of sog's in those 82 ganes.
Click to expand...

Incl SOG

Alexis Lafrenière: 18 (103)
Evgeni Malkin: 18 (256)
Jonathan Toews: 18 (198)
Jonathan Huberdeau: 17 (169)
David Pastrňák: 17 (168)
Jack Eichel: 16 (243)
Nathan MacKinnon: 16 (241)
Steven Stamkos: 15 (197)
Patrick Kane: 14 (191)
John Tavares: 13 (186)
 
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SloppyCevapi said:
Was curious on how Lafreniere's first 86 games compared to guys like MacKinnon and Hughes first 86. Looks like Laf needs more time on the PP and just ice-time in general.

Goals
MacKinnon - 24
Lafreniere - 18
Hughes - 13

Assists
MacKinnon - 40
Hughes - 22
Lafreniere - 11

Points
MacKinnon - 64
Hughes - 35
Lafreniere - 29

EvS Goals
Lafreniere - 18
MacKinnon - 16
Hughes - 8

EvS Points
MacKinnon - 47
Lafreniere - 29
Hughes - 23

PP Goals
MacKinnon - 8
Hughes - 5
Lafreniere - 0

PP Points
MacKinnon - 17
Hughes - 12
Lafreniere - 0

GWG
Lafreniere - 7
MacKinnon - 5
Hughes - 3

TOI
MacKinnon - 17:17
Hughes - 16:50
Lafreniere - 13:37

PP TOI
Hughes - 3:05
MacKinnon - 2:20
Lafreniere - 1:20
Click to expand...

agree. It’s really a big reason I hope we move on from Strome.
Hopefully he can become a staple on the 1PP. He absolutely has the shot and passing ability to do so.
It’s also would likely do wonders for his development and confidence to play with Fox and our best high end offensive players.
He’s just the most logical fit to succeed there. He also has the body type to do well buzzing around the net looking for rebounds on shots from Zibby/Panarin/Fox
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Incl SOG

Alexis Lafrenière: 18 (103)
Evgeni Malkin: 18 (256)
Jonathan Toews: 18 (198)
Jonathan Huberdeau: 17 (169)
David Pastrňák: 17 (168)
Jack Eichel: 16 (243)
Nathan MacKinnon: 16 (241)
Steven Stamkos: 15 (197)
Patrick Kane: 14 (191)
John Tavares: 13 (186)
Click to expand...

So he is shooting 17.5%,the next highest is 10.1%, and non-Laf group average is 7.8% Seems sustainable.
 
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I know this may be a hot take but I think the GWG stat is as useless as plus-minus. Unless it's the last goal of the game that wins it, it shouldn't count as a GWG.

Imagine this scenario: Rangers up 5-0, Panarin scored goals 1, 3, 4 and 5. Kevin Rooney scored goal number 2.

With 20 seconds to go, we concede a goal and win 5-1. Technically Rooney scored the GWG but should that really count as such? I'm not sure.
 
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PANARIN BREAD FAN said:
so rooney's goal in that scenario would only be a game winner if bread doesn't tally 3, 4 and 5?
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Whoever scored the goal to top the other team's number of goals gets the game-winner. It wouldn't matter if Panarin scored or not afterwards in the original scenario. If the opposing team only scored 1 goal and Rooney had the 2nd, Rooney would get the GWG. If the opposing team scored 2, then Panarin would get the GWG.
 
also if rooney doesn't score #2 then the dynamics of the game possibly change. would bread score anything after the first goal? maybe instead of bread scoring the next 3 goals they could be scored by reaves, kakko, nemeth and shesterkin. the opposing goalie obviously would really have to suck to enable for that to happen.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Incl SOG

Alexis Lafrenière: 18 (103)
Evgeni Malkin: 18 (256)
Jonathan Toews: 18 (198)
Jonathan Huberdeau: 17 (169)
David Pastrňák: 17 (168)
Jack Eichel: 16 (243)
Nathan MacKinnon: 16 (241)
Steven Stamkos: 15 (197)
Patrick Kane: 14 (191)
John Tavares: 13 (186)
Click to expand...
Reading this wrong or this tells me A) he doesn't create for himself and B) is never in the right position to actually take a shot

Linemates aside obv, but 103 shots compared to the rest is fairly awful.

These #s back up my fears... they don't spell any of them.
 
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I’m afraid to say he’s a more skilled version of Ryan Callahan. 25+25 guy. We shouldn’t have gotten him since the lottery was extremely awkward that year, so I can’t be mad he isn’t playing up to expectations. But we’ll see if he can reach his potential by the next 2 years. I felt he would break out playing with Panarin even if they struggle. He would eventually put up points. It would help his confidence.
 
Riche16 said:
Reading this wrong or this tells me A) he doesn't create for himself and B) is never in the right position to actually take a shot

Linemates aside obv, but 103 shots compared to the rest is fairly awful.

These #s back up my fears... they don't spell any of them.
Click to expand...

This tells me hes got a good shot, but doesnt use it, which tracks with the eye test. Once he develops a shooters mentality i think he can be consistent 25-30 goal scorer
 
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