Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière: Part II

[Crease]

If it were me, I would think long and hard about calling Kakko, Laf, and Lundkvist into my office, and instructing them to go down to Hartford and lead that team to a Calder Cup with Jones and Schneider.

 

[brakeyawself]

I think this is the first of two rebuilds. This one, unfortunately, is a bust — like the Leafs, Avs and Panthers experienced before landing on Matthews, McKinnon, Barkov and the rest of them. It is what it is. A first overall doesn’t always turn out like Crosby or Ovechkin.

Sure. But I think the difference is, not every 1st overall pick is hyped up to be a "generational talent" or "can't miss prospect". The hype surrounding Laf was a) Insane and irrational and b) Wildly covered up for very real concerns about his game. In truth, Byfield and Laf were realistically a lot closer than many thought or possibly still think. Laf was never that guy. He was never Crosby or Matthews or McDavid, yet the narratives surrounding him since he was a teen were the same. I think that in part has to do with him coming from Quebec and being Quebecois. The next great Quebecois players are almostalways over-hyped and put on an undeserving pedestal.

I think when you take away all the irrational hype and expectation, as should have happened originally, things make a great deal more sense. In truth, Lafreniere was just another very promising prospect that went number 1 overall. But he's not and was never what he was proclaimed to be.

 

[EdJovanovski]

How much of a difference can a skating coach make at this point in his career? I find it hard to believe he hasn't been working with one especially when last season he said he knew he had to improve.

There's only so much training can do to overcome genes.

Yea I posted about this on the main board earlier today. Everyone has a certain amount of fast twitch muscle fibres and a certain "ceiling". A skating coach can help a player come close to that ceiling but is not going to change that ceiling. I myself am an extremely fast sprinter, I started playing hockey later than some of my friends and even though they were better technical skaters, I was still faster than some of them purely because of that genetic advantage of being more explosively fast. There are guys in the NHL with more mediocre skating mechanics who are lightning fast, and guys in the NHL who have textbook strides but are slow. Kakko & Laf do not seem to be very explosive athletes and I would bet they both possess less fast twitch muscle fibres than most players.

 

[brakeyawself]

How much of a difference can a skating coach make at this point in his career? I find it hard to believe he hasn't been working with one especially when last season he said he knew he had to improve.

There's only so much training can do to overcome genes.

Um, it can make an absolutely tremendous difference at any point in someone's career if it's necessary. Which in Laf's case, it objectively is. It certainly doesn't appear to be improved. And I have heard absolutely nothing about him working with one. And when these young players do work with "skating gurus" its usually at least mentioned if not fully discussed.

You can look at a guy like Bo Horvat. His game absolutely transformed after dedicating himself to a skating guru. And it was well enough publicized and discussed. Laf is 20 years old. There is absolutely no reason he can't improve tremendously in something like skating. Not every NHL player, not every NHL star, has all there skills developed at a young age. Some still need to improve things like shooting or passing when they arrive in the NHL and some DO improve such skills.

Kakko for instance should be working on his shot like 8 hours a day. Perhaps he is, I have no clue. But usually when a hyped up young prospect works with a skating guru, you hear about it.

 

[Crease]

Um, it can make an absolutely tremendous difference at any point in someone's career if it's necessary. Which in Laf's case, it objectively is. It certainly doesn't appear to be improved. And I have heard absolutely nothing about him working with one. And when these young players do work with "skating gurus" its usually at least mentioned if not fully discussed.

You can look at a guy like Bo Horvat. His game absolutely transformed after dedicating himself to a skating guru. And it was well enough publicized and discussed. Laf is 20 years old. There is absolutely no reason he can't improve tremendously in something like skating. Not every NHL player, not every NHL star, has all there skills developed at a young age. Some still need to improve things like shooting or passing when they arrive in the NHL and some DO improve such skills.

Kakko for instance should be working on his shot like 8 hours a day. Perhaps he is, I have no clue. But usually when a hyped up young prospect works with a skating guru, you hear about it.

Agreed. This is what irks me. I want to hear what Laf and Kakko and the club are doing to develop them into elite players. I don’t want to hear they have been “fine.”

 

[brakeyawself]

Agreed. This is what irks me. I want to hear what Laf and Kakko and the club are doing to develop them into elite players. I don’t want to hear they have been “fine.”

Yup. 100%. And I honestly can't remember ever hearing anyone mentioning specific things either are attempting to improve. I mean, I think it's clear Kakko worked on his defensive game and with a physio. Those changes for him are at least noticeable. So he must have done something. But the fact that these things aren't really mentioned or discussed on an organizational and media level, is in my mind an issue.

Another one, Chytil and his faceoffs. Every damn press conference, Gallant should be saying "Yea, we have Chytil working on his faceoffs night and day." But haven't heard a thing like that out of the organization. So we have to legitimately question, is Chytil really working hard to develop his faceoff ability? If their goal is to turn him into a top 6 center, he damn well should be.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Um, it can make an absolutely tremendous difference at any point in someone's career if it's necessary. Which in Laf's case, it objectively is. It certainly doesn't appear to be improved. And I have heard absolutely nothing about him working with one. And when these young players do work with "skating gurus" its usually at least mentioned if not fully discussed.

You can look at a guy like Bo Horvat. His game absolutely transformed after dedicating himself to a skating guru. And it was well enough publicized and discussed. Laf is 20 years old. There is absolutely no reason he can't improve tremendously in something like skating. Not every NHL player, not every NHL star, has all there skills developed at a young age. Some still need to improve things like shooting or passing when they arrive in the NHL and some DO improve such skills.

Kakko for instance should be working on his shot like 8 hours a day. Perhaps he is, I have no clue. But usually when a hyped up young prospect works with a skating guru, you hear about it.

You are making the assumption that these guys aren't working on the areas they have ID'd as weaknesses simply because you haven't heard about it. That seems unlikely to me. It's likely Lafreniere has been working on his skating to improve it as much as possible for years, but there's only so much that can possibly be done before reaching a genetic limit. How often do we see a guy reach the NHL and they become drastically better skaters? If I'm not mistaken Horvat's improvements came before he made the NHL.

 

[brakeyawself]

You are making the assumption that these guys aren't working on the areas they have ID'd as weaknesses simply because you haven't heard about it. That seems unlikely to me. It's likely Lafreniere has been working on his skating to improve it as much as possible for years, but there's only so much that can possibly be done before reaching a genetic limit. How often do we see a guy reach the NHL and they become drastically better skaters? If I'm not mistaken Horvat's improvements came before he made the NHL.

It's an assumption based on the fact that you usually hear these things from coaches and organizations when they are happening. So NOT hearing them is a bad sign.

You are in fact also assuming, just in the opposite direction. And I must say, without anything to evidence that assumption. As in being able to objectively point at progress in certain areas that would have come from working on those areas specifically.
But also, not seeing these things actually improve, leads anyone to speculate what is being done to facilitate such improvement.

And MANY players have improved their skating at all different points in their career. Some, like Eberle, went from terrible to average. Or some like Horvat, went from below average to outstanding, There is no rule or standard. Guys obviously have relative floors and ceilings. A range in which they can improve. But each player varies. From what I know, a lot of guys still do work with skating coaches at the NHL and AHL level.


And no, I am pretty sure Horvat had all ready played a season or two prior to really working hard at it.

Ben Kuzma: How Canucks' captain Horvat got a leg up on the competition | London Free Press



Figure skating coaches helping NHL players improve

 

[CasusBelli]

Sure. But I think the difference is, not every 1st overall pick is hyped up to be a "generational talent" or "can't miss prospect". The hype surrounding Laf was a) Insane and irrational and b) Wildly covered up for very real concerns about his game. In truth, Byfield and Laf were realistically a lot closer than many thought or possibly still think. Laf was never that guy. He was never Crosby or Matthews or McDavid, yet the narratives surrounding him since he was a teen were the same. I think that in part has to do with him coming from Quebec and being Quebecois. The next great Quebecois players are almostalways over-hyped and put on an undeserving pedestal.

I think when you take away all the irrational hype and expectation, as should have happened originally, things make a great deal more sense. In truth, Lafreniere was just another very promising prospect that went number 1 overall. But he's not and was never what he was proclaimed to be.

I agree with all of this.

 

[Doctyl]

What in the ever loving f*** has Quinton Byfield done to even warrant having his name mentioned on this board at this point?

 

[jay from jersey]

If I was training LaF in the offseason, I’d focus heavy on the bottom half of his body as well.
I’d do things like running stairs with a weighted vest, Dot Drill, Wall sits holding a 45lb plate to his chest, squats( regular/reverse) etc
All of these things can be done in sneakers and would vastly improve his skating/Balance/explosiveness
At 20 years old, LaF has a solid upper body, so I really wouldn’t over work him there.
Like I said prior, If he can get better at his skating especially the first 2-3-4 steps and create some room, he’ll score a lot more and it for sure will help with his confidence.
He already possesses the things that are either very hard or impossible to teach.
He sees the ice well, his shot is top end hard and accurate, he doesn’t mind throwing his body around, and will likely do so more as he matures and his legs get stronger, etc
It’s not as if they are working with a complete blank slate here. It’s what we all saw as fans and what scouts all saw that made him unanimously the 1OA.
All of you that say he needs to be a better skater are absolutely correct. I’m hoping they preach this the entire offseason, because if he fixes that, we’re talking about an entirely different player then what we see on the ice now.
If his feet catch up the the speed of the nhl game, you’ll also likely see him defer a lot less when he has a scoring opportunity.
He is in no way shape or form a bust right now. Thats insane to say .
I would absolutely get him in Stromes spot on the PP. he needs a few easy pts to come his way confidence wise.

 

[huerter]

We can try to teach him how to skate but priority one is teaching him how to hold a stick so he doesn't saw off the puck when he goes to move it.

 

[Raspewtin]

Sure. But I think the difference is, not every 1st overall pick is hyped up to be a "generational talent" or "can't miss prospect". The hype surrounding Laf was a) Insane and irrational and b) Wildly covered up for very real concerns about his game. In truth, Byfield and Laf were realistically a lot closer than many thought or possibly still think. Laf was never that guy. He was never Crosby or Matthews or McDavid, yet the narratives surrounding him since he was a teen were the same. I think that in part has to do with him coming from Quebec and being Quebecois. The next great Quebecois players are almostalways over-hyped and put on an undeserving pedestal.

I think when you take away all the irrational hype and expectation, as should have happened originally, things make a great deal more sense. In truth, Lafreniere was just another very promising prospect that went number 1 overall. But he's not and was never what he was proclaimed to be.

this is absolute bullshit. Lafreniere was #1 on literally every single list out there and every single projection in existence has him as an elite talent who was an out of the box impact player. Nobody said he's Crosby or McDavid. Ever. The consensus was he was at least the best #1 since Matthews and everything he did to that point made this a very reasonable assessment. Please post less.

 

[Synergy27]

this is absolute bullshit. Lafreniere was #1 on literally every single list out there and every single projection in existence has him as an elite talent who was an out of the box impact player. Nobody said he's Crosby or McDavid. Ever. The consensus was he was at least the best #1 since Matthews and everything he did to that point made this a very reasonable assessment. Please post less.

The continued revisionist history on this in insane.

I was called out constantly last year for expecting more, and people basically ignored the fact that the consensus pre draft projections had this kid scoring at a 60 point pace right away. Videos of pundits saying exactly that were ignored.

I see less of it now but it’s still here.

 

[Whoot Whoot]

I feel like buying these kids copies of “12 rules for life “

 

[Kocur26]

This kid needs 2 months in Hartford

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

it's real hard to be a 60+ pt scorer if you've only attempted 1 shot on goal in the last 4 games.

gallant is maybe trying to mold this guy into a 2 way player. i dunno - how about molding him into a 60+ pt scorer first and then add on afterwards?

maybe the guy doesn't have it in him to be that 2 way player. but he could develop into a decent scoring left wing offensive player.

jeff skinner and max pacioretty in their prime are a couple of examples off the top of my head that this kid can develop into. i'd be content with that.

 

[2014nyr]

If I was training LaF in the offseason, I’d focus heavy on the bottom half of his body as well.
I’d do things like running stairs with a weighted vest, Dot Drill, Wall sits holding a 45lb plate to his chest, squats( regular/reverse) etc
All of these things can be done in sneakers and would vastly improve his skating/Balance/explosiveness
At 20 years old, LaF has a solid upper body, so I really wouldn’t over work him there.
Like I said prior, If he can get better at his skating especially the first 2-3-4 steps and create some room, he’ll score a lot more and it for sure will help with his confidence.
He already possesses the things that are either very hard or impossible to teach.
He sees the ice well, his shot is top end hard and accurate, he doesn’t mind throwing his body around, and will likely do so more as he matures and his legs get stronger, etc
It’s not as if they are working with a complete blank slate here. It’s what we all saw as fans and what scouts all saw that made him unanimously the 1OA.
All of you that say he needs to be a better skater are absolutely correct. I’m hoping they preach this the entire offseason, because if he fixes that, we’re talking about an entirely different player then what we see on the ice now.
If his feet catch up the the speed of the nhl game, you’ll also likely see him defer a lot less when he has a scoring opportunity.
He is in no way shape or form a bust right now. Thats insane to say .
I would absolutely get him in Stromes spot on the PP. he needs a few easy pts to come his way confidence wise.

i completely agree he needs to get more explosive regardless of anything. that has to be a priority focus, and i might even consider a month or so assignment to hfd where that would really be the focus.

but i also dont think its as bad as its being made out to be. personally i think he's playing a position and on lines that do nothing to help him. playing on the wing in junior allowed him to freelance more rather than defend and cheat up ice where he was getting pucks on the move. he's not a bad skater technically, but he's not explosive from a stop which is how he's constantly getting pucks on the wall, and being asked to defend lower and more at this level hasn't helped him with what that means from a winger. at this point his confidence with the puck is taking a hit and he's not confident attacking. completely agree moving strome out for him on the pp...better shot, way better passer, better hockey sense in general, and just makes sense getting a lefty in that spot

i'd give him a look at center...that would keep him much more in motion and put him on the puck a lot more. his hockey iq, vision, and puckhandling are clearly elite, the more he has it the more he'll play to that. i think he'd be far more effective taking a breakout outlet pass on the move curling up from below the dot than he is taking a puck on the wall with a defender collapsing. and defensively i think he'd be a lot more effective roaming down low and angling guys off than he is at wing with the stops and starts required, and quick sprints back to the wall from the middle etc...he's got the hockey iq, thats the most important thing. absolutely right that anyone calling him a bust is insane...imagine florida decided huberdeau or barkov were busts after 100 games. sure they'd be happy now had a team like us been able to snag one of them for like derek stepan and a 1st

 

[Chytilmania]

Obviously you don't see everything on social media but throughout the offseason all he posted was him golfing with buddies. Didn't see him post any training. He's in better shape than last season but some of these guys care more about their golf game than getting ready for the season.
Kreider was working 4-5 days a week from the get go. Fox is the only one who can get away with taking golf trips all offseason. This team is too talented to not succeed, I think it's all going to explode in the winter.

 

[MrAlmost]

For what its worth, I thought he had his best game of the season against Calgary. I know that won't account for much since we got killed, but he was more noticeable in a positive way. He does need to do some leg work and power skating drills. Again, this comes back to a franchise with nearly limitless money yet we don't have a f***ing power skating coach on staff? f*** it, have 5. The Rangers have more money than nearly every team behind them combined.

Who am I kidding? This shit will never change. Also, shout out again to our shitty beat writers and their lack of engaging, critical or fact finding questions. Glad we can continue to get no information.

 

[Bob Richards]

Obviously you don't see everything on social media but throughout the offseason all he posted was him golfing with buddies. Didn't see him post any training. He's in better shape than last season but some of these guys care more about their golf game than getting ready for the season.
Kreider was working 4-5 days a week from the get go. Fox is the only one who can get away with taking golf trips all offseason. This team is too talented to not succeed, I think it's all going to explode in the winter.

im as disappointed in Laf as anyone else but if you’re combing through his social media and taking notes on his personal life/training ratio then you’re just looking for something to be angry at.

 

[HyperX]

Kakko sure.

But how different is Quebec? I mean, aside from speaking Quebecois french, it's not like Quebec is SO different than the rest of North America. Montreal certainly isn't. Quebec City a bit more so, but still. And whatever suburb he might from, isn't that different either.

I get that excuse with Kakko. But Laf? Not so much.

I wasnt trying to say Quebec is some different world from NY; I meant to say Quebec is not at all like NYC.

The bright lights, the expectations, and top all of that onto a guy lacking confidence; that is what I was referencing.

also he grew up in a family that isnt exactly extroverted

 

[Crease]

im as disappointed in Laf as anyone else but if you’re combing through his social media and taking notes on his personal life/training ratio then you’re just looking for something to be angry at.

25% of Kreider's career earnings can probably be traced back to that one YouTube of him jumping out of a pool.

 

[Ruggs225]

If it were me, I would think long and hard about calling Kakko, Laf, and Lundkvist into my office, and instructing them to go down to Hartford and lead that team to a Calder Cup with Jones and Schneider.

doesnt Kakko need to go through waivers at this point? Or has he not hit that game limit yet?

and before i would send anyone to HFD i would try a laf-zib-kako line.

 

[Peltz]

Derek Stepan vibes for me.

Stepan actually had a high peak though.