Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière: Part II

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Is there something wrong with our developing? Surely it can't be only bad luck. What does Tampa and other teams do differently?

I refuse to believe we only draft busts.

definitely. Every team in the NHL takes Kakko and Laf at those spots.

 

[Zats Muccarello]

I think we all need to take a step back and think about the fact that Laf hasn't even played a full season's worth of games.

He will be fine. Not every 1st overall pick is going to come in and be Matthews/McDavid/Kane level players.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I think we all need to take a step back and think about the fact that Laf hasn't even played a full season's worth of games.

He will be fine. Not every 1st overall pick is going to come in and be Matthews/McDavid/Kane level players.

yawn

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

There is usually a direct correlation to a player moving his feet/keeping with the play and how engaged he is able to be.

He isn't a power player. he is more of a finesse player at this level and finesse players that lack in skating usually cannot play their game as effectively here...

Keeping his feet moving? Yeah.

Footspeed? No. It's a stigma based on old scouting reports that some have used for confirmation bias. There are plenty of slow players in this league who are very engaged.

He isn't really a finesse player either. He's very much a power player who hasn't done enough of the power stuff in this league yet. It'll come and he doesn't need to improve his skating in order to do it.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

He needs to want/possess the puck more. Maybe playing on the top line he feels like he should defer to Zib and Kreider, why is why I think playing him with Chytil and whoever could be better for his all around game.

 

[Kovalev27]

He needs to want/possess the puck more. Maybe playing on the top line he feels like he should defer to Zib and Kreider, why is why I think playing him with Chytil and whoever could be better for his all around game.

this is how I see it. And it shows whenever they drop him in the lineup he plays better

 

[bleedblue94]

Keeping his feet moving? Yeah.

Footspeed? No. It's a stigma based on old scouting reports that some have used for confirmation bias. There are plenty of slow players in this league who are very engaged.

He isn't really a finesse player either. He's very much a power player who hasn't done enough of the power stuff in this league yet. It'll come and he doesn't need to improve his skating in order to do it.

He was a power player in jr who is unable to play the same power game here, thus he is playing more of a finesse game which is not effective if your skating isn't at least above average. My opinion has nothing to do with old scouting reports...

He is an effort skater, not a smooth gliding skater. That is part of why it is so much more noticeable when he isnt moving his feet. There are some guys that have such a powerful stride that they dont have to truck along all the time. Even while watching him getting the puck in stride he often has to go to max effort just to ensure someone doesn't catch him, how often is he able to pull away from anyone or separate himself in a footrace? This may not be an issue years ago, but in today's nhl it is very rare for someone to be a top player without excellent skating. This doesnt even address his general inability on the boards in battles which is also directly related to leg strength. I'm not hating on the kid or saying he is a bust. I want him to succeed, but he needs to improve his lower half to realize his potential...

 

[Mac n Gs]

this is how I see it. And it shows whenever they drop him in the lineup he plays better

Yeah, I definitely think he’d benefit from going back to LW with Chytil and Blais and being tasked with driving that line. Slot Kreider back to LW and bump Kakko up to 1RW. The Panarin line was really good last night, and our 4th line has been solid all year - Hunt and Rooney are great together.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Holy moly. Laf was THE consensus 1OA. EVERY SINGLE TEAM WOULD HAVE TAKEN HIM FIRST. This isn’t a scouting failure even IF he turns out to be average, which I don’t think will be the case. It would be bad luck, not bad drafting. But then again where were they going to pick without the good lottery luck? 15th was it?
Sometimes I’m amazed at the drama and lack of rationality here. Haha. I’ve been here many years, how it surprises me anymore is crazy.

It's not a scouting issue. But you can't tell me it's not disappointing to draft top-2 twice and not even getting a single Calder vote out of those 2. First time in 50+ years we pick that high, and we get to do it in back-to-back drafts. This is not to say Kakko and Laf won't grow into good players but I can't fault Ranger fans for being annoyed by the lack of production when Lucas Raymond gets a hattrick last weekend.

And yeah, I have heard all the reasons behind it. I am not posting this to discuss the list of reasons why "it was different for Laf/Kakko". Albeit still early, Lafrenière ranks 36th out of 44 first overall picks in their D+2 season in P/GP with 0.43.

Fans want to see more from a guy that has been marketed as generational by some (he isn't but that's a debate for another day) and franchise-altering by others.

 

[JohnC]

Yeah, I definitely think he’d benefit from going back to LW with Chytil and Blais and being tasked with driving that line. Slot Kreider back to LW and bump Kakko up to 1RW. The Panarin line was really good last night, and our 4th line has been solid all year - Hunt and Rooney are great together.

What this guy said

20-93-24
10-16-21
13-72-91
29-17-75 (15 if 75 is still hurt)

55-23
79-8
6-12

Is what I’d roll with for the foreseeable future.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Some of the hot takes in here are just awful

Hot taking about hot takes is awful.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Regarding the confidence and physical assertiveness--that was an observation I made with JT Miller early on. In the AHL he looked like a cocky MFer who really pissed off the opposition and he was always physically engaged. He'd come up to NY and not look like that at all. The mental aspect is real. I mean he had some other issues as well, but he wasn't playing his game in the NHL the way we knew he could. He eventually put it together and became an excellent offensive player. Hopefully Lafreniere figures it out and becomes more comfortable sooner than that, and with us. The flipside is Brandon Dubinsky, who had that brash confidence in junior and carried it directly into the NHL--and was effective from day one. Some guys it's an easy transition, others it takes a lot of work.

Good post.

 

[Mac n Gs]

What this guy said

20-93-24
10-16-21
13-72-91
29-17-75 (15 if 75 is still hurt)

55-23
79-8
6-12

Is what I’d roll with for the foreseeable future.

Definitely agree on Jones over Nils now too. Nils just needs time to adjust to the smaller rink and quicker pace. He’ll be fine too

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

It's not a scouting issue. But you can't tell me it's not disappointing to draft top-2 twice and not even getting a single Calder vote out of those 2. First time in 50+ years we pick that high, and we get to do it in back-to-back drafts. This is not to say Kakko and Laf won't grow into good players but I can't fault Ranger fans for being annoyed by the lack of production when Lucas Raymond gets a hattrick last weekend.

And yeah, I have heard all the reasons behind it. I am not posting this to discuss the list of reasons why "it was different for Laf/Kakko". Albeit still early, Lafrenière ranks 36th out of 44 first overall picks in their D+2 season in P/GP with 0.43.

Fans want to see more from a guy that has been marketed as generational by some (he isn't but that's a debate for another day) and franchise-altering by others.

I'm a half glass full guy and firmly believe both Laf and Kakko will be fine, but I'd be lying if I said I wasnt disappointed in what we've seen thus far from both of them. What you say is true.

It's like - for real? This franchise finally lucks into these top picks and we have to have these discussions every week? It couldn't just be a no brainer for EITHER of them or both? There was no scouting issue. There is no issue with how the Rangers are bringing them along either.

Hockey is just different here

 

[jaywills1020]

yawn

EDIT. Sorry, I quoted the wrong person.
While I would usually agree with this I also have to say that Laf hasn’t done anything to “wow” me. A 1st overall pick usually has something to show and I haven’t seen it.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I think we all need to take a step back and think about the fact that Laf hasn't even played a full season's worth of games.

He will be fine. Not every 1st overall pick is going to come in and be Matthews/McDavid/Kane level players.

This is a huge factor that some people are overlooking. He wouldn't even be done with his rookie season yet at this point.

Then you throw in the wrench that Covid has been so far in his career and all of the obstacles it has caused, him being on his second coach already, new system, new teammates, still trying to find his footing in the NHL amidst all of that.

There's no excuses, but it hasn't been the best circumstances surrounding Lafreniere yet in the NHL.

this is how I see it. And it shows whenever they drop him in the lineup he plays better

Yup. When playing with the vets he is FAR too deferential. Passing to Mika or Kreider or Panarin or Strome is option A,B and C.

Lafreniere's game coming up as a prospect was always with him carrying the puck through the NZ and then in the OZ everything would run through him. So far in the NHL he's been passing and streaking immediately. He wants to be a good teammate and play a strong team game, but we need him to realize he needs to take charge and be assertive. He's at his best when he's controlling his line (a la Panarin or P. Kane) and so far he hasn't even been trying to do that. Play him with Chytil and Blais and it's more likely to happen.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I remember when everyone was hyped about this game and I watched and came away thinking that’s.. the least impressive 7 point game ever? Flubbing on shots over and over then getting the 3rd rebound? Shots that take weird bounces and there’s a scramble and it’s banged in? He doesn’t really flash much elite skill even in his best game ever

 

[NickyFotiu]

He needs to want/possess the puck more. Maybe playing on the top line he feels like he should defer to Zib and Kreider, why is why I think playing him with Chytil and whoever could be better for his all around game.

I would like an all kid 3rd line. It would take pressure off them.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Regarding the confidence and physical assertiveness--that was an observation I made with JT Miller early on. In the AHL he looked like a cocky MFer who really pissed off the opposition and he was always physically engaged. He'd come up to NY and not look like that at all. The mental aspect is real. I mean he had some other issues as well, but he wasn't playing his game in the NHL the way we knew he could. He eventually put it together and became an excellent offensive player. Hopefully Lafreniere figures it out and becomes more comfortable sooner than that, and with us. The flipside is Brandon Dubinsky, who had that brash confidence in junior and carried it directly into the NHL--and was effective from day one. Some guys it's an easy transition, others it takes a lot of work.

Are you sure about that? Laf seems like one of the most confident guys in the league to me. He’s probably the most outgoing and loudest guy on our team besides Reaves, and he has been since a rookie! That’s unheard of. He’s already the guy who stands at the door hyping everyone up as they walk through the tunnel to step on the ice. He goofs around and doesn’t mind being the spotlight of attention at all, unless somehow he’s this confident as a person but not in his play? With Kakko I can see a shy kid who has confidence issues. But I don’t see that with Laf at all

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

I remember when everyone was hyped about this game and I watched and came away thinking that’s.. the least impressive 7 point game ever? Flubbing on shots over and over then getting the 3rd rebound? Shots that take weird bounces and there’s a scramble and it’s banged in? He doesn’t really flash much elite skill even in his best game ever

Hmm, not what you were saying when we drafted him

 

[EdJovanovski]

Hmm, not what you were saying when we drafted him

View attachment 474229

Where did I say in that post that his 7pt game was impressive? Lmao
And about the captain thing I’m a big fan of his character, I still hope we hold off and name him captain (if he does prove himself). I’m sure I could search and find posts of mine saying he doesn’t look as impressive as he was hyped up to be, but I assumed every scout on earth couldn’t be wrong. So that assessment was based off what scouts say his skill is plus his character/obsession with the game like Crosby

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Where did I say in that post that his 7pt game was impressive? Lmao
And about the captain thing I’m a big fan of his character, I still hope we hold off and name him captain (if he does prove himself). I’m sure I could search and find posts of mine saying he doesn’t look as impressive as he was hyped up to be, but I assumed every scout on earth couldn’t be wrong. So that assessment was based off what scouts say his skill is plus his character/obsession with the game like Crosby

In your post, your point was that he "doesn't flash much elite skill even in his best game ever", in the post I quoted, you called him the "perfect hockey player". They contradict. If you thought he did not have much elite skill ever since before he was drafted, I highly doubt that you'd be going into that thread calling him a perfect hockey player. I point it out not to make fun of you personally, but all of us get caught up in the moment. We were all excited to draft Laffy, he hasn't even played a full 82 games yet. He has elite skill/talent, I assure you. I still agree with your post from the draft thread, I think he's a great hockey player who is learning the ropes of the NHL game and stuck on a team where the offense as a whole has been stuck in a rut all 7 games into this season.

 

[nyr2k2]

Are you sure about that? Laf seems like one of the most confident guys in the league to me. He’s probably the most outgoing and loudest guy on our team besides Reaves, and he has been since a rookie! That’s unheard of. He’s already the guy who stands at the door hyping everyone up as they walk through the tunnel to step on the ice. He goofs around and doesn’t mind being the spotlight of attention at all, unless somehow he’s this confident as a person but not in his play? With Kakko I can see a shy kid who has confidence issues. But I don’t see that with Laf at all

Yeah I'm just talking about his play. His personality obviously is what it is--he's very confident and outgoing. I haven't seen his play on the ice match the way he carries himself between whistles or in interviews. I think he's still feeling things out, figuring out how to best translate his skills to in-game situations. He's an alpha-type but doesn't play that way--yet. That's what I remember with Miller. And it obviously took a lot of things for Miller to put it together--Lafreniere hasn't even played a full season's worth of games, which is why I'm not terribly worried about it.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

I'm trying to remember. Aside from that goal against the Devils last year (which was a beautiful shot), has any of his goals been on non-empty net wristers or slappers?

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Are you sure about that? Laf seems like one of the most confident guys in the league to me. He’s probably the most outgoing and loudest guy on our team besides Reaves, and he has been since a rookie! That’s unheard of. He’s already the guy who stands at the door hyping everyone up as they walk through the tunnel to step on the ice. He goofs around and doesn’t mind being the spotlight of attention at all, unless somehow he’s this confident as a person but not in his play? With Kakko I can see a shy kid who has confidence issues. But I don’t see that with Laf at all

Outgoing personality but he hasn't been assertive on the ice yet often enough. He may be supremely confident internally but on the ice he's been a deferential support player. We need him to start playing with that confidence - hold onto that puck through the NZ, take the shot when it's there, stop coasting when you get the puck because you're looking to pass immediately.

I know he hasn't put it all together yet but when I see Lafreniere I see a balanced hockey player. I feel like he might not be as flashy as most 1st overall picks but he's a more well rounded player even at 20 years old. I feel like he's going to end up being a 30g-50a-80p player who may not be a selke candidate but will be looked at as a well rounded player. Not just a flashy highlight reel guy, but a guy who can cycle and will get to the front of the net and score gritty goals as well as in transition.