Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière: Part II

[EdJovanovski]

I’m not so convinced it’s a confidence issue with Laf. Kakko is an awkward quiet kid from another country, I think it’s largely a confidence issue with him. Laf is so much more outgoing and confident of a person, he’s one of the most vocal guys on the team even as a rookie and was a captain everywhere he’s gone

 

[Zamboner]

Still think he can be productive, but have not seen a single skill from him that screams #1 pick, like, at all. Usually there are some flashes here and there, but nothing of that sort has emerged yet.

Does he have a great shot? No. Is he a great passer? No? Does he seem to have advanced vision, ability to see the game in ways most can't? No. Is he a great skater? No. Does he have a great motor? No. Is he great stick handler? No. Dekes? No. Physical? No. Great around the boards? No. Great around the net? No. Possession? No. Defensively? No.

I don't know what he's supposed to be or what he can one day be great at.

It's one thing to be the #1 pick in a weak year (which might be the case), but he was hyped to be much more than that! There were articles of "best since McDavid" at one point, and I just don't understand how that was ever the case seeing his game so far.

Yes, I am being hard on him. I am not giving up on him, it's early, last year was atypical, but it just really does not look good, the goal post of his expectations are already being moved.

 

[Sockosensei]

Watching a highlight video of his second WJC where he was MVP, they talk about how much more assertive he was physically than the previous year.

It looks like he's lost that confidence
He's still got some growing into his body to do. Just turned 20 this month. He doesn't need to dominate physically, just reach the point where he has the (confidence in his) strength to play his game.

The brain goes in cycles as people adjust, even world-class athletes. A month from now we'll see that he's caught up and is "processing the game." We'll have a 70-page thread proclaiming "Lafreniere has arrived!" Then he'll have another stretch where things are out of whack. Need patience for these cycles.

 

[Kocur Dill]

it is still a lazy take.

he needs to get more engaged. Has nothing to do with his feet.

Was kind of thinking this last night.

In Jr Laf was a very engaging player in the mould of a younger Theo Fleury or Patty Verbeek. He seems much more passive out there at this level, picking his spots instead of making his spots.

 

[ThirdEye]

It's almost like he's playing with a perennial lower body injury. The entire offense sans like 2-3 players looks like ass, so not going to jump to any conclusions yet but getting more worried with every passing game. Someone needs to reignite his passion for hockey

 

[mrmovies779]

Some of the hot takes in here are just awful

 

[Chytilmania]

Let's keep in mind, everybody's crush Zegras has 1 assist in 6 games.

 

[bbny]

Lucas Raymond, 19 years old, #4 OA in the Laf draft, 4 g 7 p 6 games. Just had a hat trick.

What are we doing wrong? Where's the clear showcasing of high end talent even if it's only in 1 out of 10 or 15 games? Something that gets you hope that more consistency leads to stardom?

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

How many kids can grow a full beard like Laf did in his D+1. The guy is physically mature beyond his years. I imagine that had something to do with his success in the QMJHL... still think he will end up being a beast on the first line for us

 

[bhamill]

Holy moly. Laf was THE consensus 1OA. EVERY SINGLE TEAM WOULD HAVE TAKEN HIM FIRST. This isn’t a scouting failure even IF he turns out to be average, which I don’t think will be the case. It would be bad luck, not bad drafting. But then again where were they going to pick without the good lottery luck? 15th was it?
Sometimes I’m amazed at the drama and lack of rationality here. Haha. I’ve been here many years, how it surprises me anymore is crazy.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Huberdeau happy with Panthers hiring Gallant

 

[LORDE]

Still think he can be productive, but have not seen a single skill from him that screams #1 pick, like, at all. Usually there are some flashes here and there, but nothing of that sort has emerged yet.

Does he have a great shot? No. Is he a great passer? No? Does he seem to have advanced vision, ability to see the game in ways most can't? No. Is he a great skater? No. Does he have a great motor? No. Is he great stick handler? No. Dekes? No. Physical? No. Great around the boards? No. Great around the net? No. Possession? No. Defensively? No.

I don't know what he's supposed to be or what he can one day be great at.

It's one thing to be the #1 pick in a weak year (which might be the case), but he was hyped to be much more than that! There were articles of "best since McDavid" at one point, and I just don't understand how that was ever the case seeing his game so far.

Yes, I am being hard on him. I am not giving up on him, it's early, last year was atypical, but it just really does not look good, the goal post of his expectations are already being moved.

Rough post but I'm worried it is spot on. He's young but man I wanted more from him last season and REALLY wanted more this one so far. He looks lost.

 

[Circus86]

Is there something wrong with our developing? Surely it can't be only bad luck. What does Tampa and other teams do differently?

I refuse to believe we only draft busts.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Interesting take:

This is still year 1 for Laf.

63 GP

 

[Ruggs225]

I wonder if he defers too much to guys like Zib and Panarin.

players like him want to lead on and off the ice. It might be hard for him to adjust.

but like usual, i most likely am wrong.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Just for some context, let me post two stat lines:

8gp, 1g, 1a, 2pts, 16 shots

7gp, 2g, 1a, 3pts, 17 shots


The first is Jonathan Huberdeau's first month under Gallant in his D+3 year, after a disappointing D+2 year and 2 years removed from his Calder Trophy.

The second is Laf in his first month under Gallant. I get it that people want more from him, and I do too, but some of you seriously need to be more patient. It's his first full NHL year, playing under a new coach in a new system where none of our offensive players have begun to click yet. We looked even worse during our first year under AV, and that team didn't find its groove until mid-November.

 

[Crease]

Neither Laf nor Kakko appear poised to break out during their ELC. But this is not a scouting issue. It's either a development or luck issue. My sense is that the Rangers have these guys focused on learning a 200 foot game instead of focused on translating their offensive skills to the NHL game. Maybe that means these guys won't take off until their mid-20s. Maybe that means these guys won't ever take off offensively. I don't know.

 

[SA16]

Is there something wrong with our developing? Surely it can't be only bad luck. What does Tampa and other teams do differently?

I refuse to believe we only draft busts.

They get lucky with late picks. Tampa has not had a 1st round pick play significant games for them since Hedman. Unless you count Namestnikov who is not exactly some great player. This will always happen that one team will find a couple of great mid round picks and then the masses will have to search for a reason for it after the fact because simple good fortune does not suffice.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I’m confident Lafreniere will figure it out but I lowkey would like just one of these hyped drafted kids to come into the lineup and light it up and look like they belong out of the gate

Nils is one of the best defensive prospects in the world, he looks awful thus far. Lafreniere most of the time looks like a guy you get in the middle of the first round, not a franchise changing talent. Kakko is starting to look the part but it took a while to get there

again I’m sure it’ll all work out but I’m just venting a bit lol

 

[nyr2k2]

Lucas Raymond, 19 years old, #4 OA in the Laf draft, 4 g 7 p 6 games. Just had a hat trick.

What are we doing wrong? Where's the clear showcasing of high end talent even if it's only in 1 out of 10 or 15 games? Something that gets you hope that more consistency leads to stardom?

Raymond is a great talent and I am not taking anything away from him. Let's see where he stands after a couple months of games. Cole Caufield burst onto the scene in the playoffs and looked like a damn stud. He has started with 1 assist in 6 games this year. Zegras has a point in six games. Carter Hart looked like he may break Philly's goalie curse, and now he's a guy who is sometimes very good, sometimes awful? When we had Derek Stepan he wasn't even supposed to make the team and started with a hat trick and had five points after five games. Again--Raymond is a great young player, but there are several young guys each year who come flying out of the gates only to tail off, sometimes dramatically, as the league makes adjustments to them. I'd argue Miller came out of the gates like a f***ing star last year before looking like an AHLer by the end of the season. Happens all the time. I'm sure people who pay more attention to the rest of the league could give better examples than I have.

My point is just, I try to focus on our guys, and not so much what other players are doing this early in the season, since by the end of the season things often look much different. I really do understand the frustration of Lafreniere and Kakko not coming out like what you'd expect from their draft positions, but I think we just have to accept they're not superstars and they're going to take some time to develop into the very good players I think they will become. IIRC Kakko as a rookie looked pretty terrible, and while he didn't exactly break out last year, he at least provided reason to hope that he could. And same for Lafreniere--early last year, into the middle of the year, even--he didn't show much at all and we were talking about historically bad seasons for a 1OA. But by the end of the year he had moved the needle enough to give us hope. He has done some good things this year but obviously not enough; that could be said for basically everyone on the team outside of Fox, Shesterkin, and maybe Kreider. The progression won't be linear, there will be peaks and valleys.

 

[Synergy27]

I’m just going to say that I hope all of you patience preachers are right. I really, really, do.

I’ve been hard on Laf since day one. My expectations were high, some say too high, because of what we were told he was pre draft.

I simply do not see a special player. I really, really hope he just needs a few things to click to takeoff.

 

[bleedblue94]

it is still a lazy take.

he needs to get more engaged. Has nothing to do with his feet.

There is usually a direct correlation to a player moving his feet/keeping with the play and how engaged he is able to be.

He isn't a power player. he is more of a finesse player at this level and finesse players that lack in skating usually cannot play their game as effectively here...

 

[nyr2k2]

I’m just going to say that I hope all of you patience preachers are right. I really, really, do.

I’ve been hard on Laf since day one. My expectations were high, some say too high, because of what we were told he was pre draft.

I simply do not see a special player. I really, really hope he just needs a few things to click to takeoff.

FWIW, I do preach patience, but the possibility exists that both bust. I mean with Kakko I feel like there's at least a floor of an effective middle-six winger, but there's a real chance both he and Lafreniere never become big offensive players. I think everyone has to at least prepare for that possibility, even if they take the approach of "we need to give the guys time to develop." The fact that Kravtsov and Andersson also did whatever they did, is just salt in the wounds.

But again--I'm pretty confident Kakko has a long NHL career in some capacity and I am confident (though less so than with Kakko) that Lafreniere will at least become a 20-40 guys or something.

 

[Sockosensei]

Was kind of thinking this last night.

In Jr Laf was a very engaging player in the mound of younger Theo Fleury or Patty Verbeek. He seems some much more passive out there at this level, picking his spots instead of making his spots.

Yep. Over and over again I've seen him coast hesitantly into a corner without even contesting the puck. In those same situations in junior he crashed in, battled, and often won the puck.

You could argue laziness or attitude—I'd prefer to see him go in and battle—either way it's clear he doesn't have the physical confidence to engage in those battles.

It's a problem now. I'm not sure it's indicative of where he'll be in a few years.

 

[nyr2k2]

Regarding the confidence and physical assertiveness--that was an observation I made with JT Miller early on. In the AHL he looked like a cocky MFer who really pissed off the opposition and he was always physically engaged. He'd come up to NY and not look like that at all. The mental aspect is real. I mean he had some other issues as well, but he wasn't playing his game in the NHL the way we knew he could. He eventually put it together and became an excellent offensive player. Hopefully Lafreniere figures it out and becomes more comfortable sooner than that, and with us. The flipside is Brandon Dubinsky, who had that brash confidence in junior and carried it directly into the NHL--and was effective from day one. Some guys it's an easy transition, others it takes a lot of work.