Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière: Part II

[Peltz]

So what are the right expectations?

That he will be a fantastic asset to the team when he gets 150 games or so under his belt. He needs at least one full off-season where he can grow physically, and another year at least of games to adjust to the pace of the NHL and figure out what his game looks like here.

He needs to build every aspect of his game physically and mentally. The great news is he clearly has all of the talent to be highly successful in the NHL. He just needs to figure out how to create a small bit more time and space for himself to make plays.

He just isn’t finding or creating the open ice yet. Once he can do that consistently, we’ll see more of his elite passing and shooting ability. He was able to do it in other leagues so he knows what this looks like. It’s a matter of finding another level to his game.

I have zero doubts it will come.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Nate Mackinnon wasn't even close to a PPG player until age 22...5th full season in the league.

Ok, but he did score at a 1st line rate his first 4 years in the NHL. If Lafreniere was producing like Mackinnon I don't think anyone would be complaining. In fact, people would be celebrating the fact that we had a future franchise player in our midst. To act as if Laf is even close to where most 1st overalls have been the past 2 decades is just disingenuous. Again, that doesn't mean he won't become a top player necessarily. But perhaps it's time that expectations be revised.

 

[MarkMessyay11]

Ok, but he did score at a 1st line rate his first 4 years in the NHL. If Lafreniere was producing like Mackinnon I don't think anyone would be complaining. In fact, people would be celebrating the fact that we had a future franchise player in our midst. To act as if Laf is even close to where most 1st overalls have been the past 2 decades is just disingenuous. Again, that doesn't mean he won't become a top player necessarily. But perhaps it's time that expectations be revised.

No, you're right about that. If Laf was on pace for 50+ this year no one would be complaining. Just was adding to your point that it takes time for players to get it together. The arguments for and against Laf have been beaten to death over the last couple of months, and I'm in agreement with you.

There are nearly infinite number of variables to consider, but I do think Laf will end up being just fine. Whether that means he's a career "average" 1st line winger, or takes enough strides forward to really cement himself as a top-echelon player remains to be seen. Either way, his rookie year production won't matter at all if he's one of our top 3 leading scorers going on a Cup run in a few years.

 

[xsniper11x]

Ok, but he did score at a 1st line rate his first 4 years in the NHL. If Lafreniere was producing like Mackinnon I don't think anyone would be complaining. In fact, people would be celebrating the fact that we had a future franchise player in our midst. To act as if Laf is even close to where most 1st overalls have been the past 2 decades is just disingenuous. Again, that doesn't mean he won't become a top player necessarily. But perhaps it's time that expectations be revised.

Two things though. NMac was spoon fed minutes on terrible teams that had nothing else. Less of a hands on approach and just thrown out there to play his game. We’ve seen very mixed results when it comes to team success using the “just go out there and play” method of development. We’ve seen many young players put up pts, but we’re clearly lacking evidence of it working in the context of successful team building.

Second, NMac’s game is reliant on his elite speed, which always translates immediately in the NHL vs more cerebral players who rely on hockey IQ. That’s why speedsters hit the ground running and sometimes peak early, while the latter player has a slower development curve with a higher peak.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Two things though. NMac was spoon fed minutes on terrible teams that had nothing else. Less of a hands on approach and just thrown out there to play his game. We’ve seen very mixed results when it comes to team success using the “just go out there and play” method of development. We’ve seen many young players put up pts, but we’re clearly lacking evidence of it working in the context of successful team building.

Second, NMac’s game is reliant on his elite speed, which always translates immediately in the NHL vs more cerebral players who rely on hockey IQ. That’s why speedsters hit the ground running and sometimes peak early, while the latter player has a slower development curve with a higher peak.

In his first year Colorado was I believe 1st or 2nd in the western conference, and he was on a team with O'Reilly, Stastny, and Duchene ahead of him on the center depth chart.

As for the 2nd paragraph, maybe. I don't really have the data to prove or disprove your point. But it does make some sense to me.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

It's insanely obvious that Lafreniere is just not in NHL shape. 10 strides and he's clearly gassed. He hadn't played a game in forever before the start of the season and no NHL training camp certainly did not help. With a full (kind of) offseason and an NHL training camp under his belt I could see him easily breaking out next year. Not worried about him at all right now

 

[chosen]

It's insanely obvious that Lafreniere is just not in NHL shape. 10 strides and he's clearly gassed. He hadn't played a game in forever before the start of the season and no NHL training camp certainly did not help. With a full (kind of) offseason and an NHL training camp under his belt I could see him easily breaking out next year. Not worried about him at all right now

Being out of shape before the season. Unlikely.

Being out of shape, now. Near impossible.

If he was out of shape, now, he wouldn't be in the lineup, and deservedly so.

His skating is clearly the weakest part of his game. After an off-season dedicated to that, it should no longer be an issue.

Every other part of his game looks NHL-ready, now.

 

[Synergy27]

Being out of shape before the season. Unlikely.

Being out of shape, now. Near impossible.

If he was out of shape, now, he wouldn't be in the lineup, and deservedly so.

His skating is clearly the weakest part of his game. After an off-season dedicated to that, it should no longer be an issue.

Every other part of his game looks NHL-ready, now.

Agreed. Not buying the out of shape excuse. The kids has shown a few bursts of true speed and effort that tell me that isn’t a fitness issue.

It’s a confidence/coaching issue. The times that I’ve seen Laf really get engaged have been against other young players that he seems to have some familiarity with (Dobson as an example). It’s almost like he sees those guys in the corner and feels confident enough to override his “play it safe” mandate.

Obviously speculation on my part but that’s what it looks like to me.

 

[chosen]

Agreed. Not buying the out of shape excuse. The kids has shown a few bursts of true speed and effort that tell me that isn’t a fitness issue.

It’s a confidence/coaching issue. The times that I’ve seen Laf really get engaged have been against other young players that he seems to have some familiarity with (Dobson as an example). It’s almost like he sees those guys in the corner and feels confident enough to override his “play it safe” mandate.

Obviously speculation on my part but that’s what it looks like to me.

I almost always reject the coaching excuse because while some on a team underachieve, others overachieve.

 

[Synergy27]

I almost always reject the coaching excuse because while some on a team underachieve, others overachieve.

Coaching can’t be individual and systematic simultaneously? Players can’t be given individual, specific roles and mandates within the system?

 

[Rongomania]

Agreed. Not buying the out of shape excuse. The kids has shown a few bursts of true speed and effort that tell me that isn’t a fitness issue.

It’s a confidence/coaching issue. The times that I’ve seen Laf really get engaged have been against other young players that he seems to have some familiarity with (Dobson as an example). It’s almost like he sees those guys in the corner and feels confident enough to override his “play it safe” mandate.

Obviously speculation on my part but that’s what it looks like to me.

Yeah, Dobson is not the only rook we've seen Laf handle.

Forgive me if I don't remember who it was, but someone mentioned he put on too much weight, muscling up too much in that garage. I believe that he'll grow into his body a little more by next year and really get some speed back by shedding a little of that bulk he put on for the manly NHL season. We know he is strong enough, I haven't seen the kid get flattened at all.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

Being out of shape before the season. Unlikely.

Being out of shape, now. Near impossible.

If he was out of shape, now, he wouldn't be in the lineup, and deservedly so.

His skating is clearly the weakest part of his game. After an off-season dedicated to that, it should no longer be an issue.

Every other part of his game looks NHL-ready, now.

Being out of shape before the season "unlikely?" Did you not read the beginning of my post? The dude hadn't played an actual game in like 10 months and had no NHL training camp. Explain to me how it was "unlikely" he was not in NHL game shape

His conditioning is what's holding him back right now. He has no explosiveness in his stride and he's off the ice in 30 seconds. If you can't see it by his play I don't know what to tell you. He's literally keeled over after every shift.

The Rangers are burning a year off his ELC; whether or not he eats 20 wings and a yoohoo before the game or not, he's playing. Literally nothing you said in your post holds any truth nor can any of it even be assumed based on what we're seeing from his play

 

[chosen]

Coaching can’t be individual and systematic simultaneously? Players can’t be given individual, specific roles and mandates within the system?

Sure bot how does that evaluate to a plus or negative assessment of that coach by a fan?

 

[chosen]

Being out of shape before the season "unlikely?" Did you not read the beginning of my post? The dude hadn't played an actual game in like 10 months and had no NHL training camp. Explain to me how it was "unlikely" he was not in NHL game shape

His conditioning is what's holding him back right now. He has no explosiveness in his stride and he's off the ice in 30 seconds. If you can't see it by his play I don't know what to tell you. He's literally keeled over after every shift.

The Rangers are burning a year off his ELC; whether or not he eats 20 wings and a yoohoo before the game or not, he's playing. Literally nothing you said in your post holds any truth nor can any of it even be assumed based on what we're seeing from his play

All players in the NHL work out vigorously in the off-season. None of them are in game-shape when the season starts.

Again, if he were not in game-shape now, he would be in the AHL and riding the bench, and he's not, so obviously he is in game-shape.

 

[Synergy27]

Sure bot how does that evaluate to a plus or negative assessment of that coach by a fan?

I’m not exploring that here. I’m trying to figure out why Laf seems engaged sometimes and completely not at other times.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

All players in the NHL work out vigorously in the off-season. None of them are in game-shape when the season starts.

Again, if he were not in game-shape now, he would be in the AHL and riding the bench, and he's not, so obviously he is in game-shape.

So you really believe that the Rangers would burn a year off his ELC and stick him in Hartford? Delusional

 

[LokiDog]

So you really believe that the Rangers would burn a year off his ELC and stick him in Hartford? Delusional

They already did. Is keeping him up actually benefiting him, them, or anyone? The year is burnt. It’s been an abysmal failure. He has no idea where to go when he isn’t carrying the puck. He just threw a hit on Chytil when he meant to be supporting the puck because he’s so lost in the O zone. Doesn’t backcheck hard or have an NHL defensive game yet. What does it matter at this point? If he plays 32 NHL games and has 9 points or 56 and has 12, the year is burnt. I guess he’s not eligible for the AHL, but he may benefit from watching a couple games from the press box with a veteran or coach sitting with him, breaking things down.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

All players in the NHL work out vigorously in the off-season. None of them are in game-shape when the season starts.

Again, if he were not in game-shape now, he would be in the AHL and riding the bench, and he's not, so obviously he is in game-shape.

But he isn't eligible to play in the AHL

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

They already did. Is keeping him up actually benefiting him, them, or anyone? The year is burnt. It’s been an abysmal failure. He has no idea where to go when he isn’t carrying the puck. He just threw a hit on Chytil when he meant to be supporting the puck because he’s so lost in the O zone. Doesn’t backcheck hard or have an NHL defensive game yet. What does it matter at this point? If he plays 32 NHL games and has 8 points or 56 and has 11, the year is burnt.

That's exactly what I'm saying. He isn't even eligible to play in the A. This dude was trying to argue he's in shape otherwise he would be in the AHL. Wrong on many levels

 

[chosen]

So you really believe that the Rangers would burn a year off his ELC and stick him in Hartford? Delusional

Way to make up something I never said.

I'm the one who says he's in shape. You're the one who says he isn't.

Logic fail on your part or worse.

 

[chosen]

But he isn't eligible to play in the AHL

The point remains that his conditioning isn't the issue.

It's something someone here made up.

 

[NYRKING30]

That puck was a grenade on his stick. Couldn’t handle it or handle a pass.

 

[17futurecap]

Him getting punched in the face and drawing a penalty was his highlight of the day.

 

[RangersFan]

Sit him already.

 

[Quinnisinoverhishead]

He’s lost all confidence. Coaching is a contributing factor.