Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière: Part II

[LORDE]

Because I'm old, he reminds me of Shanahan as a rookie.

The stats weren't there for him either, as a rookie.

Both show glimpses of outstanding ability.

Well street hockey players (the Mullens come to mind) played NHL at one point... the game has changed since.

I always said hockey wasn't one game.

You need the skill to play the game, like ANY other sport... but you ALSO need the ability to skate.

Now you need to skate REALLY well, otherwise you're Lias Andersson

 

[mas0764]

For an average rookie, I would agree with you. For a unanimous 1st pick of a draft, who some thought might be a generational talent, it's a huge disappointment.

He could still end up a perennial all-star, though.

We have established he's not a generational talent, and it's up in the air whether he becomes a superstar, but hope springs eternal because of guys like MacKinnon, who developed a bit slower, but he has always been a phenomenal skater.

Right now, Lafraniere is at the very best, an average NHL skater. Some think he's less than that. Presumably, in his second season, his skating will vastly improve, because that will be the focus of his off-season.

He already has outstanding vision, plays very smart hockey, and is already physical enough.

I still assume we'll all be ecstatic to have him, but absolutely no one thought his stats would be this dismal in his first season. A 20-point pace is pretty shocking for him.

We haven't established anything.

He could still be a generational talent.

Listen, I'm as worried as anyone but no books have been written about either Kakko or Lafreniere.

I'm not one to write off their struggles due to covid entirely but it is a factor.

Another factor that doesn't get talked about enough is that we are probably playing in the toughest division in the league. Most of our toughest opponents are the most veteran, experienced, toughest defensive teams out there.

That has to matter.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Another factor that people want to brush off is it is very likely a coaching issue. He looks like he doesn't know where to be. Something that he should be coached up on. He doesn't lack skill and honestly i don't think he lacks speed, he's not a burner but he's not a slug. He just seems out of the plays too often, same as Kakko last year. You would think this should be something thats relatively easy to fix.

 

[duhmetreE]

Another factor that people want to brush off is it is very likely a coaching issue. He looks like he doesn't know where to be. Something that he should be coached up on. He doesn't lack skill and honestly i don't think he lacks speed, he's not a burner but he's not a slug. He just seems out of the plays too often, same as Kakko last year. You would think this should be something thats relatively easy to fix.

You ever drive in a different part of town or a place you've never been? You close the radio, you ride the brakes and you move slowly while looking at your GPS.

Lafreniere is playing like that. Reactionary, nervous and hesitant. We want comfortable and controlled aggressiveness. Coaching may play a role in that since it has happened to a lot of the players

 

[SA16]

We haven't established anything.

He could still be a generational talent.

Listen, I'm as worried as anyone but no books have been written about either Kakko or Lafreniere.

I'm not one to write off their struggles due to covid entirely but it is a factor.

Another factor that doesn't get talked about enough is that we are probably playing in the toughest division in the league. Most of our toughest opponents are the most veteran, experienced, toughest defensive teams out there.

That has to matter.

This gets talked about a lot even though it is not true.

North: 6.1 goals/game
East: 5.8 goals/game
Central: 5.8 goals/game
West: 5.8 goals/game

 

[chosen]

This post makes me sad... usually ur posts make me angry.

I'd like to go back to that now thanks.

Did you switch meds?

 

[chosen]

We haven't established anything.

He could still be a generational talent.

Listen, I'm as worried as anyone but no books have been written about either Kakko or Lafreniere.

I'm not one to write off their struggles due to covid entirely but it is a factor.

Another factor that doesn't get talked about enough is that we are probably playing in the toughest division in the league. Most of our toughest opponents are the most veteran, experienced, toughest defensive teams out there.

That has to matter.

Without looking, I'm unaware of any generational talents who came out at a 20-point rate per season.

 

[LORDE]

Did you switch meds?

Now I'm laughing! You're all over the place

 

[chosen]

Now I'm laughing! You're all over the place

I got a sort of Gordie Howe Hat Trick.

 

[LORDE]

You ever drive in a different part of town or a place you've never been? You close the radio, you ride the brakes and you move slowly while looking at your GPS.

Lafreniere is playing like that. Reactionary, nervous and hesitant. We want comfortable and controlled aggressiveness. Coaching may play a role in that since it has happened to a lot of the players

Of course you wanna see signs of talent...

Sooo in your analogy, when he hits the west side highway and knows there aren't any lights (this is north of 57th obv) I'd like to see some driving.

He still has his hazard lights on and is looking for signs that say "Statue of Liberty That way"

(Also... "close" the radio???)

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This gets talked about a lot even though it is not true.

North: 6.1 goals/game
East: 5.8 goals/game
Central: 5.8 goals/game
West: 5.8 goals/game

The standard deviation is relatively high though.

Edit: The standard deviation is low, it's a relatively large amount of standard deviations from the mean.

 

[duhmetreE]

Of course you wanna see signs of talent...

Sooo in your analogy, when he hits the west side highway and knows there aren't any lights (this is north of 57th obv) I'd like to see some driving.

He still has his hazard lights on and is looking for signs that say "Statue of Liberty That way"

(Also... "close" the radio???)

I close the electrical current to the radio. I also say Coke for all soda. I call SUVs, Jeeps. We gotta problem?

 

[LORDE]

I close the electrical current to the radio. I also say Coke for all soda. I call SUVs, Jeeps. We gotta problem?

After your explanation... yeah.

I get that G Washington is your avatar but you shouldn't be near a computer if you need to "close" an electrical circuit to turn something off.

Unless you mean women... then by all means over explain shit Ben Franklin and turn everyone off lol

edit: Could've gone Nikola Tesla here but didn't wanna play into your hand

 

[IronBloodedLion]

We haven't established anything.

He could still be a generational talent.

Listen, I'm as worried as anyone but no books have been written about either Kakko or Lafreniere.

I'm not one to write off their struggles due to covid entirely but it is a factor.

Another factor that doesn't get talked about enough is that we are probably playing in the toughest division in the league. Most of our toughest opponents are the most veteran, experienced, toughest defensive teams out there.

That has to matter.

Totally agree with the point about the strength of the division. Everyone knew this was going to be a painful division when it was announced, and it hasn’t disappointed. Outside of the Sabres, every team is dangerous to play against. We don’t have the luxury of going and beating up on inferior teams.

 

[Chytilmania]

You ever drive in a different part of town or a place you've never been? You close the radio, you ride the brakes and you move slowly while looking at your GPS.

Lafreniere is playing like that. Reactionary, nervous and hesitant. We want comfortable and controlled aggressiveness. Coaching may play a role in that since it has happened to a lot of the players

Last season Kakko was afraid to touch the puck and every time he had it he would dump it in and make a change. Laf looks afraid to touch the puck as well. When he gets a pass he stops skating and is immediately looking for a pass.

 

[Gr8CornHolio]

People keep throwing around "Generational Talent", when was Laf ever dubbed a Generational Talent? Not counting people on this board who consider every number 1 a Generational Talent......

The only Generational Talents I could recall were McDavid, Tavarez (maybe), and Crosby.

Of the last 20-30 years with Lindros being the other before that I remember

 

[TheDirtyH]

The Canucks, Senators, and Jets are the bottom three teams in the league in 5v5 xGA/60. Oilers are 9th from the bottom. It's not just a meme. Moreover, Canadian teams play one another an extra game this season because it's a seven team division.

 

[RickChartraw]

not worried at all.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

The only generational talents I could recall were McDavid, Tavarez (maybe), and Crosby.

I defined generational talent as a player that enters the league and scores at a ppg pace.

my list (for my time 2000 onwards) is: McJesus, Crosby, Malkin, Ovi.

I kinda see the case for Tavares though.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

For an average rookie, I would agree with you. For a unanimous 1st pick of a draft, who some thought might be a generational talent, it's a huge disappointment.

He could still end up a perennial all-star, though.

We have established he's not a generational talent, and it's up in the air whether he becomes a superstar, but hope springs eternal because of guys like MacKinnon, who developed a bit slower, but he has always been a phenomenal skater.

Right now, Lafraniere is at the very best, an average NHL skater. Some think he's less than that. Presumably, in his second season, his skating will vastly improve, because that will be the focus of his off-season.

He already has outstanding vision, plays very smart hockey, and is already physical enough.

I still assume we'll all be ecstatic to have him, but absolutely no one thought his stats would be this dismal in his first season. A 20-point pace is pretty shocking for him.

The only time point predictions matter for teenage rookies are for fantasy leaguers. It goes without saying that teams picking No. 1 overall generally suck and can do one of two things with their 1st OA -- play the heck out of them and see what happens or put them on a gradual development scale where ice time and deployment are earned.

I find it incredibly unfair that Rangers fans expected a 19-year-old kid to step in and unseat one of Kreider, Panarin, or Buchnevich, all while learning Quinn's systems and playing in the toughest division in the league with 75 percent of the schedule against Cup contenders. Lafreniere is basically playing a playoff schedule for a rookie season. It's unprecedented and totally problematic when trying to assess a teenager's performance.

His skating is fine. Lafreniere's issue right now is adapting to the speed of the NHL and the zone schemes. Don't get the obsession with speed. Draisaitl isn't fast. Kane isn't fast. Panarin isn't fast. Scheifele isnt fast. Stone -- arguable the best winger in the game -- is also one of the slowest.

And for the record, I don't recall anyone every considering Lafreniere a near-generational talent.

To me, it sounds like Rangers fans got overly excited about the pick and failed to have reasonable expectations, and are now looking for a scapegoat since all the other fanbases are calling him a bust.

Alexandre Daigle was fast and exciting for Ottawa in 1993-94. He was their franchise and got everybody excited. Two years later he was on the fourth line.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Another factor that people want to brush off is it is very likely a coaching issue. He looks like he doesn't know where to be. Something that he should be coached up on. He doesn't lack skill and honestly i don't think he lacks speed, he's not a burner but he's not a slug. He just seems out of the plays too often, same as Kakko last year. You would think this should be something thats relatively easy to fix.

It's not a coaching issue. It's an experience issue. Quinn -- like all coaches -- has a playbook. He has a playbook for all three zones, special teams, etc. When new players show up, they have to learn it. Veteran players find it easier because the system may be a version of one they've played in already. And you can read the manuals and packets for months; they don't mean a thing without executing in practice.

Short training camp and packed-in schedule limits reduces practice time. Veterans can skirt by. The kids have the toughest time adapting.

 

[Harbour Dog]

People keep throwing around "Generational Talent", when was Laf ever dubbed a Generational Talent? Not counting people on this board who consider every number 1 a Generational Talent......

The only Generational Talents I could recall were McDavid, Tavarez (maybe), and Crosby.

Of the last 20-30 years with Lindros being the other before that I remember

It's definitely a term that gets used way too much. I wouldn't even put Tavares in there.

If I had to pick three guys since 2004, who could have legit had that generational title at the draft; it would probably be Crosby, McDavid, and Dahlin.

 

[MetalJaws]

Alex Ovechkin. Ya know, the Greatest goal scorer of all time. He's on the list of generational talent.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Alex Ovechkin. Ya know, the Greatest goal scorer of all time. He's on the list of generational talent.

I was just looking from Crosby on!

 

[LORDE]

People keep throwing around "Generational Talent", when was Laf ever dubbed a Generational Talent? Not counting people on this board who consider every number 1 a Generational Talent......

The only Generational Talents I could recall were McDavid, Tavarez (maybe), and Crosby.

Of the last 20-30 years with Lindros being the other before that I remember

Man... Ovy gets no love in this post

Tavarez????