CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
- 66,352
- 21,371
I'd suggest you're partially informed, like the rest of us, so you're being critical with potentially only part of the information to support your stance.
Player Discussion Alexander Ovechkin (Vol. 4)
- Thread starter Calicaps
- Start date
I'd suggest you're partially informed, like the rest of us, so you're being critical with potentially only part of the information to support your stance.
twabby
Registered User
- Mar 9, 2010
- 14,165
- 15,699
For people who criticize Ovechkin, the thought experiment I keep coming back to is: if another player had a Donald Trump or Joe Biden avatar, and/or expressed support for either, would you be similarly mad at them as well?
If not, then I’m not really interested in your opinion on the matter.
If not, then I’m not really interested in your opinion on the matter.
g00n
Retired Global Mod
- Nov 22, 2007
- 31,262
- 15,846
Spurred by Putin, Russians Turn on One Another Over the War (Published 2022)
Citizens are denouncing one another, illustrating how the war is feeding paranoia and polarization in Russian society.
Spurred by Putin, Russians turn on one another over the war
Putin set the tone in a speech March 16, declaring that Russian society needed a “self-purification” in which people would “distinguish true patriots from scum and traitors and simply spit them out…
www.mercurynews.com
This is the basic article I was trying to post. Pick whichever. Same concept. It is not necessarily "safe" to make waves and Ovie's actions NOW...not over the last 17 years or whatever...have to be viewed with that in mind since this invasion has completely turned things upside down.
Corby78
65 - 10 - 20
Doing/saying what you need to in order to not be a hungry outcast or possibly worse, and doing so under a world of misinformation, is not the same as loving a guy. People in America don't realize the pressure a government can put on you. I've talked with Iraqi officers, listened to NK defectors, read accounts from Chinese immigrants. Keeping your head down and acceptance is the best course of action for most people. And it starts to warp you and you feel its the norm.
I'm not fully condoning Ovie's silence, but I'm sure not going to condemn a guy when I don't know what is going on behind the scenes.
- Feb 10, 2010
- 14,419
- 11,365
I'm not condemning him either. I'm saying he deserves some flak. There is rather a lot of middle ground to be had here.
Locking this thread until I have time to clean it up. I'm not sure what is hard to understand about forum rules prohibiting discussing politics.
And before anyone comments about how this is important to discuss, please know that I don't care what your opinions are on this matter and I say that with no malice at all -- there are board rules that everyone agrees to follow when you create an account and post on here and your personal opinion about the validity of said rules doesn't matter.
And before anyone comments about how this is important to discuss, please know that I don't care what your opinions are on this matter and I say that with no malice at all -- there are board rules that everyone agrees to follow when you create an account and post on here and your personal opinion about the validity of said rules doesn't matter.
Thread is open. I would suggest folks review the forum rules before engaging in discussion on here, but just to clarify a few of the relevant rules being violated in this thread...
- Political discussion is not permitted on the forums except within the narrowly defined scope of hockey-related matters.
- Do not make posts that could be interpreted as though they were made to cause an argument or provoke others.
- Critique the opinion, not the person. Personal attacks against members are not permitted. Report flaming, do not respond to it. Counter-flaming is also prohibited.
* Please note: rules are interpreted and enforced at the discretion of Moderators, Moderator Supervisors, and site Administrators. Violations deemed severe enough will be reviewed by the administrators.
** If you see a post that violates any of the above rules, use the report post feature. Using this can bring it to the attention of all active moderators and it will be addressed as quickly as possible. Once a post is reported, leave it alone and let the mods do their job. Do not respond to the post, tell the poster they were reported, or chide people for violating the rules.
I understand this is a hot-button issue but please do your best to remain on topic and stay within forum rules. There are places for you to post your opinions on this matter and on larger macro society issues but that place isn't here.
- Political discussion is not permitted on the forums except within the narrowly defined scope of hockey-related matters.
- Do not make posts that could be interpreted as though they were made to cause an argument or provoke others.
- Critique the opinion, not the person. Personal attacks against members are not permitted. Report flaming, do not respond to it. Counter-flaming is also prohibited.
* Please note: rules are interpreted and enforced at the discretion of Moderators, Moderator Supervisors, and site Administrators. Violations deemed severe enough will be reviewed by the administrators.
** If you see a post that violates any of the above rules, use the report post feature. Using this can bring it to the attention of all active moderators and it will be addressed as quickly as possible. Once a post is reported, leave it alone and let the mods do their job. Do not respond to the post, tell the poster they were reported, or chide people for violating the rules.
I understand this is a hot-button issue but please do your best to remain on topic and stay within forum rules. There are places for you to post your opinions on this matter and on larger macro society issues but that place isn't here.
Empty Goal Net
Hide! Homeland Security Is On Patrol
- Feb 13, 2010
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CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
- 66,352
- 21,371
Thats exactly what makes Ovy special….durability. NHL history is rife with talented guys who could not stay healthy.
ovikovy817
Registered User
A lot of people don't understand that.
They're talking with "on pace" "what if" and so on.
BallardEra
Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
Same goes for Gretzky as well.
He had 637 goals in his first 10 seasons and 257 goals in his last 10 seasons.
Ovie scored 475 goals after his first 10 seasons. He is in season #17 right now (season #7 in the back half of his career) with 302 goals scored.
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BallardEra
Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
If Ovie hits 50 this year that totals 780 career goals.
Let's say he regresses during his next three seasons to these totals:
Age 37 - 43 goals
Age 38 - 37 goals
Age 39 - 30 goals
That would take him to 890 career goals with one season remaining on his current contract.
Let's say he regresses during his next three seasons to these totals:
Age 37 - 43 goals
Age 38 - 37 goals
Age 39 - 30 goals
That would take him to 890 career goals with one season remaining on his current contract.
BallardEra
Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
Most goals in a season scored by a player during their age 36-40 seasons:
Age 36 season:
Selanne - 48
Ovechkin - 47 (current season)
Esposito - 40
Age 37 season:
Bucyk - 40
Sakic - 36
Esposito - 34
Age 38 season:
Brett Hull - 37
Bucyk - 31
St Louis - 30
Age 39 season:
Howe - 39
Bucyk - 28
Doan - 28
Age 40 season:
Howe - 44
Bucyk - 36
Selanne - 31
Age 36 season:
Selanne - 48
Ovechkin - 47 (current season)
Esposito - 40
Age 37 season:
Bucyk - 40
Sakic - 36
Esposito - 34
Age 38 season:
Brett Hull - 37
Bucyk - 31
St Louis - 30
Age 39 season:
Howe - 39
Bucyk - 28
Doan - 28
Age 40 season:
Howe - 44
Bucyk - 36
Selanne - 31
BallardEra
Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
Howe also finished 3rd in the Art Ross race that season with 103 points.
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
Yeah, in his first 10 seasons he averaged 0.63 goals per game, and he's at 0.58 so far since. Ovechkin's staying power is legendary, and it doesn't get talked about nearly enough.
It'd be one thing if he had that kind of durability and he wasn't a physical player. But he's #4 in hits among all forwards during his career. To find another player on the hits list that also averages over a point per game during that era, you have to go all the way down to Stamkos at #110 -- a guy that has 2,200 fewer hits, well less than a third of Ovi's total. That's insane.
Here's another way to look at it. Imagine the start of training camp in 2005...
Hockey Pundit #1: "Do you think anyone will ever break Gretzky's goals record?"
Hockey Pundit #2: "No way in hell! Players barely ever score 50 in a season anymore. Someone would basically have to come into the league and average 50 goals for like 18 straight years! It'll never happen, mark my words!
Alex Ovechkin: "Подержи мое пиво." ("Hold my beer.")
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Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
He's literally built different. The hits he throws aren't the small little shoulder bumps like the ones Brouwer used to "throw". He runs other guys over like a truck and fills the back of their net at the same time. Besides, he never needed anybody to protect him, guys don't want to mess with him.
He certainly never needed to hide behind the refs like the other stars of his time.
BallardEra
Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
16 goals in his last 21 games.
ovikovy817
Registered User
BallardEra
Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
Corby78
65 - 10 - 20
Greatest goal scorer ever. Considering the era of hockey he plays in, you will never convince me otherwise
He clearly is.
Matthews might get close actually if he gets 50-60 goals for a few seasons now in this high scoring period. While Ovi had to grind for those goals in a low scoring era.
Ovi had 269 goals in 396 games his first 5 seasons, but lost 1 to lockout. Also Ovi had a horrible team around him for most of that period (Before Backström) while Matthews have had nice support.
Matthews have 257 goals in 404 games his first 6 seasons now and will probably close in a little to the 12 goal difference before the season ends. Ovi have 3 low scoring seasons coming up one of them because of a lockout. So Matthews if healthy might have some distance on Ovi after the first 9 seasons by draft year.
Would be a shame if he looses it that fast as he clearly is the better goalscorer. From Matthews second season to season 6. Ovi have outpaced him in points every season (Also this unless Matthews get really hot towards the end: Ovi with 109 in 72 and Matthews with 102 in 70) and in the first 4 Ovi scored more goals per game aswell compared to Matthews 2-5 seasons while Matthews are a little ahead this year, but the league was way lower in scoring back then.
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
Matthews will miss too many games, and age will hit him harder than Ovi. Stamkos had a lot of the same buzz when he first came on the scene. Nothing against either of them and their superstar talents, but doing what Ovi is doing today absolutely requires his level of durability.
So it's not really a comparison of how many goals he and Ovi had by their age-25 season. It's how he'll age and the beating he'll take along the way. It's great that Matthews will get 60 the year he turns 25. But will he still be topping 50 the year he turns 37 like Ovi just did?
Matthews has the 50-goal thing down for sure. He's as elite a goal scorer as they come. But he'll have to maintain that pace every year for over a decade to come close. I don't see that happening.
So it's not really a comparison of how many goals he and Ovi had by their age-25 season. It's how he'll age and the beating he'll take along the way. It's great that Matthews will get 60 the year he turns 25. But will he still be topping 50 the year he turns 37 like Ovi just did?
Matthews has the 50-goal thing down for sure. He's as elite a goal scorer as they come. But he'll have to maintain that pace every year for over a decade to come close. I don't see that happening.
