Player Discussion Alexander Ovechkin (Vol. 4)

[YippieKaey]

I like Ovi, but have never understood why the record is such a big deal, because the real record to me is total goals scored in the NHL, meaning 1,016 by Wayne Gretzky. I know the argument is some teams don't make the playoffs, but for that matter, why not equate the number of regular season games? Or how about the number of minutes on the ice? I suppose 894 is a meaningful record, but so many are saying Ovi will become the greatest goal scorer of all time, and sorry, I just don't think that statement can be made. He is only approaching 898 now, so that record for Wayne is safe. Again, let's say it correctly: 894 is the regular season record. But the most goals scored in a career in the National Hockey League is 1,016.

So.....why didn't you or anyone else say this in the 20+ years between Gretzky retiring and Ovi scoring goal #800? How come this is being said for the first time when someone is getting close to breaking the record that is in the record books, on Wikipedia, NHL.com and every other site? How come the way of counting is changing now?

It's so transparent it becomes silly. Like you're 11-years old and losing an argument on the schoolyard.

 

[Midnight Judges]

The all-time home runs record is held by Barry Bonds. We all know that. It was Hank Aaron before him and Babe Ruth before him. It's regular season, not reg + playoffs.

The all time passing TD record is held by Tom Brady. We all know that. It's for regular season and has nothing to do with playoffs.

The NBA all time points record is held by Lebron James. Before that it was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. We all know that. It's regular season not reg season plus playoffs.

The NHL all time points leader is Wayne Gretzky. Before him it was Gordie Howe. We all know that. It is regular season only, not reg season plus playoffs.

^^^These are household stats and commonly known records, and have been since far before most of us were born.

So yeah, obviously some people for some reason will want to move the goal posts now that a dirty stinking furriner Russian guy is in the mix. But that's transparently BS. The precedent is more than half a century of legendary records across all the big sports. They all point to the regular season - and for good reason.

 

[Raikkonen]

What gets worse?

He's leading scorer on a team ranked 8th in the league right now?

Who else should retire? Crosby? McDavid?

He's playing worse with each passing year, obviously. And now he's behind his usual pace.

He himself said he won't stay only to beat the record.

2nd in the history of the game is still crazy and you don't have to play 2 more seasons.

Imagine him scoring 30 this season while playing like he is now. That puts a big question mark over the 895. Hence the question.

 

[Calicaps]

He's playing worse with each passing year, obviously. And now he's behind his usual pace.

He himself said he won't stay only to beat the record.

2nd in the history of the game is still crazy and you don't have to play 2 more seasons.

Imagine him scoring 30 this season while playing like he is now. That puts a big question mark over the 895. Hence the question.

this ignores what we're seeing on the ice. he's playing well. passing great. hitting. even defending well. he's not shooting at his usual pace, but he's not low on shots either. it's just been bad luck. I don't expect it to continue like this all season; they need to fix the PP and 74 needs to remember how to pass to Ovie's wheelhouse. so yes, I can see him scoring 30. it's only November.

 

[g00n]

Ovie started slow when Oates took over. He needed about 25 games to start rolling.

He had a few good games to begin the Trotz era then again went cold for a long period....about 25-30 games.

With Reirden there wasn't an adjustment period, probably because TR had already been behind the bench with Trotz.

When Lavi came in his scoring was OK but not "Ovie consistent" until after 20 games or so.

Give him another 5-10 games he should start lighting it up.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I like Ovi, but have never understood why the record is such a big deal, because the real record to me is total goals scored in the NHL, meaning 1,016 by Wayne Gretzky. I know the argument is some teams don't make the playoffs, but for that matter, why not equate the number of regular season games? Or how about the number of minutes on the ice? I suppose 894 is a meaningful record, but so many are saying Ovi will become the greatest goal scorer of all time, and sorry, I just don't think that statement can be made. He is only approaching 898 now, so that record for Wayne is safe. Again, let's say it correctly: 894 is the regular season record. But the most goals scored in a career in the National Hockey League is 1,016.

One major issue I have with this argument is that the number of playoff games is outside Ovechkin’s control. The Caps weren’t as stacked as the 80s Oilers, and there are many more teams now than in the 80s.

The likelihood of a team advancing deep in the playoffs today is significantly lower in a 30-32 team league with a hard cap and a parity system.

Ovi could never be surrounded by a Jari Kurri, Paul Coffey, Mark Messier, Grant Fuhr and Glenn Anderson all at the same time. That’s 5 HOF players.

He had Nick Backstrom, John Carlson, TJ Oshie, Braden Holtby and Evgeny Kuznetsov. None of these guys will end up in the HOF, only Ovi will.

 

[Calicaps]

One major issue I have with this argument is that the number of playoff games is outside Ovechkin’s control. The Caps weren’t as stacked as the 80s Oilers, and there are many more teams now than in the 80s.

The likelihood of a team advancing deep in the playoffs today is significantly lower in a 30-32 team league with a hard cap and a parity system.

Ovi could never be surrounded by a Jari Kurri, Paul Coffey, Mark Messier, Grant Fuhr and Glenn Anderson all at the same time. That’s 5 HOF players.

He had Nick Backstrom, John Carlson, TJ Oshie, Braden Holtby and Evgeny Kuznetsov. None of these guys will end up in the HOF, only Ovi will.

Backstrom will.

But yeah, overall this.

 

[BallardEra]

Should we be concerned with his play so far this season?

 

[zappa4ever]

Should we be concerned with his play so far this season?

You should.
I'm not.

 

[Raikkonen]

this ignores what we're seeing on the ice. he's playing well. passing great. hitting. even defending well. he's not shooting at his usual pace, but he's not low on shots either. it's just been bad luck. I don't expect it to continue like this all season; they need to fix the PP and 74 needs to remember how to pass to Ovie's wheelhouse. so yes, I can see him scoring 30. it's only November.

lets be reality. while he was playing better few weeks ago what we see now is not looking like he's getting in shape. this is looking wrong.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Got it! Blue Line Alexander Ovechkin Washington Capitals White 2005 Jersey

 

[BallardEra]

Now on pace for 19 goals this season.

He hasn't looked like the same player after his father's death.

 

[Coldplay619]

):

 

[RedRocking]

Am I the only one that would be fine if he doesn’t hit 895? I’d rather not see this turn into a Willy Mays on the Mets situation, or watch him clumsily fall all over himself like Emmitt Smith on his way to the rushing record.

That said, he has been a bit snake bitten hitting posts, etc…and it’s still not clear why he’s refusing to take shots on the PP. So I think he could still get a little hot and be respectable. He should at least start potting some from his office eventually.

 

[Raikkonen]

this ignores what we're seeing on the ice. he's playing well. passing great. hitting. even defending well. he's not shooting at his usual pace, but he's not low on shots either. it's just been bad luck. I don't expect it to continue like this all season; they need to fix the PP and 74 needs to remember how to pass to Ovie's wheelhouse. so yes, I can see him scoring 30. it's only November.

I just think you were trying to believe in what you want

And things are worse already


It's not bad, it's to be expected

 

[bacchist]

Am I the only one that would be fine if he doesn’t hit 895? I’d rather not see this turn into a Willy Mays on the Mets situation, or watch him clumsily fall all over himself like Emmitt Smith on his way to the rushing record.

That said, he has been a bit snake bitten hitting posts, etc…and it’s still not clear why he’s refusing to take shots on the PP. So I think he could still get a little hot and be respectable. He should at least start potting some from his office eventually.

I don't care at this point. I've already come to terms with the fact that it's looking less and less likely. Really hoping that if this continues, we don't see the organization make any panic moves that cost us in the long run.

 

[Calicaps]

I just think you were trying to believe in what you want

And things are worse already


It's not bad, it's to be expected

you're free to think what you want

 

[TheSmokingMan]

I am not buying into the narrative that he's old and washed up. To my eye, Ovie's skating looks about the same as last season. He's even done some nice playmaking (his passing is underrated). The only thing that's really starting to concern me is that his shot has been way off since the beginning of the season. I thought it was just a bad stretch and he would work through it, but that hasn't happened yet.

He isn't the only one on the team who is struggling offensively since the system change. Nobody on the team seems to be able to get to the slot or in front of the net. It's all coming from the perimeter, which is fine if you are setting screens, getting defelctions, rebounds, and battling for garbage goals in front, but none of that is happening. I'm wondering if he's having a hard time adapting and the lack of success (especially on the PP) is giving him confidence issues and contributing to all the misfires we have been seeing. It might also explain why we are seeing him pass more than usual.

Of course, he's not the young speedy Ovie who hits everything that moves anymore. He can still be a very effective player, but they need to manage his minutes and match-ups better. It's just hard when the top 6 forward group is such a mess. The fix has to be a combination of coaching adjustments and BMAC bringing in another top 6 forward to stabilize the group (easier said than done).

The season isn't lost, and neither is Ovie's goalscoring. They've shown some promising signs with stretches of good defensive play 5on5, the PK, and goaltending. I feel like with some tweaks, things could turn around.

 

[BallardEra]

On an 18 goal pace this season.

 

[Midnight Judges]

He looks like total shit.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Looks like a guy who age finally caught up with. I think we owe him a little more respect than to say he looks like total shit.

Mortals fall off a lot sooner….we’re lucky this didn’t happen a few years ago….and still the leading scorer.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Regarding Ovechkin, I think we need to be a bit more forgiving.

This is something personal, but I can totally relate to him right now. I used to score 1 goal per game on average in my league a few years ago, but I’ve only scored 1 goal in my past 20 games.
I’m not 38 like Ovi though, I’m 27, right in the middle of my prime.

It’s like I completely forgot how to score, even though my body hasn’t changed. It’s all in my head, because of issues in other areas of my life.

Ovechkin’s production and engagement level sharply dropped after the passing of his father, the stats are there to prove it. I can’t imagine what must be going through his mind. The goal record is meaningless compared to what he had to go through this year.

I think if there’s anybody who deserves the benefit of the doubt for anything on this team, it’s Alex Ovechkin. I don’t believe for an instant that he forgot how to score or shoot a puck.

 

[BallardEra]

Ovechkin’s production and engagement level sharply dropped after the passing of his father, the stats are there to prove it. I can’t imagine what must be going through his mind. The goal record is meaningless compared to what he had to go through this year.

He doesn't seem to have the passion and drive he had when his father was still alive.

 

[HTFN]

well if there's anything positive to hope for, he usually gets a little loose after hitting major milestones, maybe he can string a few of those games together after 1500 points (not that I think it was weighing on him much)

 

[EXTRAS]

I dunno how close he was with his father, but imagine he was going after that goal record at the heart of it to make his father proud.

Not saying it's the same but I remember when tigers dad died and thinks went off the wheels too.