Alexander Burmistrov "will almost certainly return to NHL"

[Koonta]

Maybe Burmi had a somewhat/bad attitude how much of one I don't know but I would like to see what a coach that is a better communicator like Maurice can do to change that. Noel I thought had a tough time articulating in his press conferences clearly what he saw from the games or what the team did either good or bad. Noel would often say "you have to play the right way" or "we didn't get an A game" from a player but never really explained what those cliches really meant to him. Maurice actually explains things and breaks it down and if he does that in his press conferences what does that mean to how he coaches. I'd like to see how Burmi reacts to this type of coaching.

If you are trying to teach someone something and they don't understand it will they ever change if you continue to teach them exactly the same way, without trying to change the way you deliver the message. I don't think Noel ever did this with Burmi and I would like to see Maurice have a chance at this.

 

[ps241]

I'm throwing down a gauntlet here.
Anytime anyone offers up evidence of Burmistrovs difficult personality. His supporters shout "prove it"
The only proof any of us have is what we hear and read in the media.
I repeatedly bring up his countryman Antropovs comments,
The fact that he was benched, was seen arguing with a coach, the reports in his of his stormy exit interview.
I'm sorry Garret plugging your fingers in your ears and yelling "LALALALALA RUMOURS RUMORS RUMOURS" over and over again is getting tiring. There is abundant evidence.

I don't care who you are or how bad the coach is(Noel) if your a 20 yr old in the NHL you sit tight shut up and play the game the coach tells you to. That's called being a professional. You think I get in a screaming match with my boss cause I don't like the project I'm assigned?

Noel coached Scheif and Trouba, I saw Noel screaming in Schief's ear on the bench, did 55 yell back? No he took it, went out and worked his but off to earn his ice time. Funny he's still here, still playing, still developing.


As for his play, well I've watched a lot of players over the years and Burmi isn't among my best ever list that's for sure. You can call it Bias or bigotry or whatever, but I don't think every player who excels in Europe can instantly apply their game to the NHL.

Burmi seemed like one of many players I've seen who had difficulties but rather than keep his head down and listen to teammates Beyak talked about him demanding respect and being difficult to coach.

Why don't you address my points in a realistic manner one at at time.

Explain why Antropov, A countryman with a similar cultural background, with excellent grasp of the English language and ability to express himself clearly, said Burmi was "difficult to play with".
Tell me why that opinion is invalid?

Explain to me why you're not concerned about a 19-20-year-old kid screaming at his professional NHL coach on the bench isn't a concern.

Explain why journalists reported in the newspaper TV and radio that Burmistrov was "difficult to coach"

I don't disagree necessarily with allot of your post. Burmi wasn't alone though. Kane had his issues with Noel and threw him under the bus late in his tenure (I'm ok to play gate). The older core were not big fans of Noel's and it came to a head when the team quit on him right before he was fired.

I wish Alex was a little less stubborn but the way I look at it is he never lacked effort and compete. coach Noel is gone now and we have Maurice in place so it would be a fresh start for both sides and I have to ask (personally) do I think Maurice could coach him? I would like to give him a shot.

To the bolded above to his play I agree he definitely isn't on the best ever list.....not even close. I see him in a cluster sitting between Perreault and Frolik. Excellent skater, strong defender, decent possession player, really solid middle six asset.

Hard to say whether his teammates will forgive him or not I can't really speak to how they felt about him playing out his contract and taking a bigger pay day in the KHL? This is pro sports though and there is conflict.

I get there is hair on this deal but he is a free asset and I think it makes sense to try to give it a go.

 

[garret9]

Maybe he had a bad attitude? Maybe he didn't?
Maybe if he did it was overly exaggerated? Maybe it wasn't?
Maybe he has changed? Maybe he's the same?

None of us really *know* these answers. Even myself.
We are just guessing with some small glimpses into some comments.

 

[fatschoonerrat]

Maybe he had a bad attitude? Maybe he didn't?
Maybe if he did it was overly exaggerated? Maybe it wasn't?
Maybe he has changed? Maybe he's the same?

None of us really *know* these answers. Even myself.
We are just guessing with some small glimpses into some comments.

Yup. But what would a sports message board be without rampant speculation? lol Don't forget he's also two years older, which is a lot of maturity for someone his age.

 

[Skidooboy]

@garret

Your right they aren't countrymen, but close enough. Post Soviet Union Central European culture is a lot more similar than our current situation, more like 1895 Canada/Britan than today. That's a different discussion tho.

Regardless. Burmi had a bad relationship with a coach and
His value appears to be the same as Tim Stapleton's offensively with a better two way game. The produce at similar rates in the KHL. Together and apart.

There was definitely other reports of Burmi being difficult to coach. I'm positive.
Im unable and disinclined to go back through every article and bit of footage from Burmi's time here to sift out every comment, but I remember there was a lot of media chatter going on when he was benched.
And ultimately.. I don't think the Jets were all that high on Burmi, yes he's an asset, yes they don't want to let him go for free, but they didn't sign him, now you confirm they wanted to trade him.
Why trade him? Why not fight harder to sign him? You profess his stats say he was better than Olie, so he has NHL level skills, the jets were lacking at that position, why not keep him? Unless, maybe, he had an attitude problem and didn't fit the TNSE "character" player model.

And people here just pen him in and say how wonderful it will be when he's on the roster.

Again he was here, obviously didn't fit, and was essentially let go. When he left there was not a lot of hope he would ever return, if he indeed ever does. If he gets a rich enough KHL offer(some here call him a Priemere player in that league) he might stay another year or two and outlast our claim on him. At best we have 3rd hand poorly translated RUMORS he wants back here.
So I do not and cannot understand all the Burmi love.

IMHO He's at best a sound third line NHL Player. Not that difficult to replace. And IMHO he has "issues" which would prevent him from fitting in on this team, and with the organization.

Trade him fast for a bag of pucks while we can.

 

[Koonta]

@garret

Your right they aren't countrymen, but close enough. Post Soviet Union Central European culture is a lot more similar than our current situation, more like 1895 Canada/Britan than today. That's a different discussion tho.

Regardless. Burmi had a bad relationship with a coach and
His value appears to be the same as Tim Stapleton's offensively with a better two way game. The produce at similar rates in the KHL. Together and apart.

There was definitely other reports of Burmi being difficult to coach. I'm positive.
Im unable and disinclined to go back through every article and bit of footage from Burmi's time here to sift out every comment, but I remember there was a lot of media chatter going on when he was benched.
And ultimately.. I don't think the Jets were all that high on Burmi, yes he's an asset, yes they don't want to let him go for free, but they didn't sign him, now you confirm they wanted to trade him.
Why trade him? Why not fight harder to sign him? You profess his stats say he was better than Olie, so he has NHL level skills, the jets were lacking at that position, why not keep him? Unless, maybe, he had an attitude problem and didn't fit the TNSE "character" player model.

And people here just pen him in and say how wonderful it will be when he's on the roster.

Again he was here, obviously didn't fit, and was essentially let go. When he left there was not a lot of hope he would ever return, if he indeed ever does. If he gets a rich enough KHL offer(some here call him a Priemere player in that league) he might stay another year or two and outlast our claim on him. At best we have 3rd hand poorly translated RUMORS he wants back here.
So I do not and cannot understand all the Burmi love.

IMHO He's at best a sound third line NHL Player. Not that difficult to replace. And IMHO he has "issues" which would prevent him from fitting in on this team, and with the organization.

Trade him fast for a bag of pucks while we can.

That comment kind of ruined all you said prior in your post, if you think he is a solid third line player than why trade him for a 'bag of pucks'

 

[garret9]

Everything doesn't happen such in a vacuum like that.

Burmistrov had an offer that was more competitive financially than what the Jets could reasonably offer, plus had the home town aspect. You don't buy players, you buy wins. If you lose value on the wins, even if you have a good player, it isn't worth it. Signing Burmistrov enough to counter his opportunity cost including home town discount in the KHL and his salary would likely be a negative value even though he was a 3rd/2nd line tweener at 20.

Why did the Jets extend interest in bring Burmistrov over this summer, including a personal phone call from Maurice? Why did Burmistrov entertain this even though he'd lose money buying out his own contract? Who knows. I could make guesses on this too.

You probably shouldn't gloss over the defensive differences as a minor side because they are huge. Burmi had one of the best two-way results with middling usage. Jets out chanced, shot, attempted, and possessed their opponents with Burmistrov on the ice. Stapleton had poor results with severe sheltering. Jets were out done despite Stapleton playing easier minutes than any Jet forward to play more than 500 minutes. Stapleton scored more per minute than Scheifele in the NHL... both in ES time and PP time, I guess we should compare that too? Not really since we all know that Scheifele is the far better all around player and has further upside. Age is an important factor too after all.

 

[ps241]

@garret

Your right they aren't countrymen, but close enough. Post Soviet Union Central European culture is a lot more similar than our current situation, more like 1895 Canada/Britan than today. That's a different discussion tho.

Regardless. Burmi had a bad relationship with a coach and
His value appears to be the same as Tim Stapleton's offensively with a better two way game. The produce at similar rates in the KHL. Together and apart.

There was definitely other reports of Burmi being difficult to coach. I'm positive.
Im unable and disinclined to go back through every article and bit of footage from Burmi's time here to sift out every comment, but I remember there was a lot of media chatter going on when he was benched.
And ultimately.. I don't think the Jets were all that high on Burmi, yes he's an asset, yes they don't want to let him go for free, but they didn't sign him, now you confirm they wanted to trade him.
Why trade him? Why not fight harder to sign him? You profess his stats say he was better than Olie, so he has NHL level skills, the jets were lacking at that position, why not keep him? Unless, maybe, he had an attitude problem and didn't fit the TNSE "character" player model.

And people here just pen him in and say how wonderful it will be when he's on the roster.

Again he was here, obviously didn't fit, and was essentially let go. When he left there was not a lot of hope he would ever return, if he indeed ever does. If he gets a rich enough KHL offer(some here call him a Priemere player in that league) he might stay another year or two and outlast our claim on him. At best we have 3rd hand poorly translated RUMORS he wants back here.
So I do not and cannot understand all the Burmi love.

IMHO He's at best a sound third line NHL Player. Not that difficult to replace. And IMHO he has "issues" which would prevent him from fitting in on this team, and with the organization.

Trade him fast for a bag of pucks while we can.

Lots to debate here but I am running. So when you say not that difficult to replace 3rd line talent I would counter by pointing out that we are on year 4 now and we are 1 injury (Kane) away from Thor playing on our 3rd line so yes for TNSE 3rd and 4th line talent has proven to be next to impossible to get.

 

[EpicGingy]

People seem to forget he's only a year older than Scheifele, and while I'm a big Scheifele fan we can all admit that he hasn't been producing enough as of late. Should we just let him go because he's a replaceable asset? Perrault could take his place after all.

But the Jets can't throw assets away. Chevy should do everything he can short of overpaying to get Burmi back on this team. He was a good third liner when he left which was when he was a year younger than Scheifele, he was still developing.

People change. Attitudes change. He didn't get along with Noel and none of us know more than what Antropov said and that Burmi was frustrated with Jokinen getting more ice time, which is understandable. I was frustrated. Jokinen was playing like trash and Burmi was playing superior hockey. He was a frustrated young man and frustrated young men can let their emotions get the best of them.

There's no argument that Burmi doesn't make the Jets a better team, and that's the bottom line. When we ever have Halischuk on the third line there's a problem.

 

[Koonta]

It's not going to cost us anything to get him back, so I don't see what the problem is to see what we have in him or how he has changed or how different coaching will impact his play. It's nothing but a good thing to me that if he comes back we have another talented young player back in our fold to either play for us or used in a trade

 

[tucker22*]

Trade him for a bag of pucks? Wish you would have gotten that in before the new year cause that would have topped the stupidest idea of 2014.

 

[Skidooboy]

Did the Jets need talent? Yes
Never said they didn't

Is Burmi the only possible fit for that? Are there no other solutions

Dude left. He did what was right by him and I got no quarrel with that. It was his right.
But, cap Issues or or not if the Jets wanted him they would've signed him. Teams always find a way to keep the assets they value. Now Garrett tells us the Jets were going to trade him anyway.

And please do not conflate the Jets inability to sign burmi with our current third/ 4th line situation. There's a ton of bad work by Jets management involved in our bottom 6 right now that has nothing to do with Burmistrov or the talent available to us. I call it The Thornburn effect!
The Thorburn effect is a complicated system revolving heavily on variables such as the Ellerby quotient the Paluso gradient and the Galiardi index.

You get that whole "bag of pucks" is a metaphor right.? Nobody really gets traded for equipment. It would be for a pic or another player.
What exactly do you think a high flight risk Russian with potential character issues is worth on the trade market today?

And no I don't think number 55 should be abandoned apparently Jets management agrees, but then it doesn't seem like he has the character issues that Burmi did.......


In short we are talking about a guy who is at third line center who had the ability because of his nationality to get paid will beyond his NHL value. I fail to see that he's going to suddenly roll over and take less money to come here now and be a happy little camper no matter what role he's given when he wasn't like that in the past.

So why should we be bending over backwards to retain this questionable asset.

 

[garret9]

Is anyone asking to bend over backward?

Or are people just wanting asset management?

Just saying that Burmistrov has value both to the team and in the market; there is a chance that it may be greater to the team than the market. Might as well maximize value.

Almost getting traded isn't that big of a deal. There are quite a few Jets who were "almost traded" but the Jets also kept. The same is true for most teams. GMs talk a lot on deals.

 

[tntkid]

Based on the fact that he took his ball & went home for 2 years now.

It seems to be a big mistake drafting Russians.

You base that on what exactly?

 

[garret9]

Based on the fact that he took his ball & went home for 2 years now.

It seems to be a big mistake drafting Russians.

What ball did he take home?

A free agent took more money to play home. Wouldn't you?

Burmi didn't break contract like Telegin.

 

[tucker22*]

Did the Jets need talent? Yes
Never said they didn't

Is Burmi the only possible fit for that? Are there no other solutions

Dude left. He did what was right by him and I got no quarrel with that. It was his right.
But, cap Issues or or not if the Jets wanted him they would've signed him. Teams always find a way to keep the assets they value. Now Garrett tells us the Jets were going to trade him anyway.

And please do not conflate the Jets inability to sign burmi with our current third/ 4th line situation. There's a ton of bad work by Jets management involved in our bottom 6 right now that has nothing to do with Burmistrov or the talent available to us. I call it The Thornburn effect!
The Thorburn effect is a complicated system revolving heavily on variables such as the Ellerby quotient the Paluso gradient and the Galiardi index.

You get that whole "bag of pucks" is a metaphor right.? Nobody really gets traded for equipment. It would be for a pic or another player.
What exactly do you think a high flight risk Russian with potential character issues is worth on the trade market today?

And no I don't think number 55 should be abandoned apparently Jets management agrees, but then it doesn't seem like he has the character issues that Burmi did.......


In short we are talking about a guy who is at third line center who had the ability because of his nationality to get paid will beyond his NHL value. I fail to see that he's going to suddenly roll over and take less money to come here now and be a happy little camper no matter what role he's given when he wasn't like that in the past.

So why should we be bending over backwards to retain this questionable asset.

Guess you don't remember the Jets trading Kris Draper to the Red Wings.

Detroit Red Wings acquire Date Winnipeg Jets acquire
Kris Draper
June 30, 1993
future considerations (1$)

That seemed to work out well.....for the Wings and Draper.

 

[Skidooboy]

Is anyone asking to bend over backward?

Or are people just wanting asset management?

Just saying that Burmistrov has value both to the team and in the market; there is a chance that itmay be greater to the team than the market. Might as well maximize value.

Almost getting traded isn't that big of a deal. There are quite a few Jets who were "almost traded" but the Jets also kept. The same is true for most teams. GMs talk a lot on deals.

People are indeed talking like he's a huge part of our future we must must must sign.

I consider the special trip by Paul Mo to explain to him how the team is changed and the system hascchanged and how he was now going to be treated bending over backwards a little bit yes.

this isn't Wayne Gretzky this is a third line defensively responsible player.

A player who has slag talked the KHL in the past then chose it over the NHL because he personally felt he knew how to be played better than his coach knew how to play him.(okay the money helped, but he eschewed that money when he chose to come here instead of play in an "old mans" league the first time around.)

He trashed talked a successful veteran NHL teammate, right wrong or indifferent, I don't consider that to be the type of thing at character player would do.
Add it up with all the RUMORS and reports, and it sure as heck looks like he does have character issues.

I think it's funny you bring up the fact he was on the trade market then pass it off as nothing.my point has always been that if the Jets were really hot on this guy as many posters in this thread seem to think, He would have been kept.

Do I blame him for manipulating the situation to his own financial advantage,? No.
do I think that we as an organization should expend a bunch of energy danceing to this guys tune, feeding what I consider to be an over inflated ego? No.

Let's trade his rights away let someone else in their tires with this kid and move on.

 

[garret9]

People are indeed talking like he's a huge part of our future we must must must sign.

Signing him is likely better value, at least to those people. Not a must, but optimal is always better than not. You are over exaggerating others opinions.

I consider the special trip by Paul Mo to explain to him how the team is changed and the system hascchanged and how he was now going to be treated bending over backwards a little bit yes.

It was a phone call not a trip... it's not bending over backward, it's taking the effort needed to improve the team, as you noted a team will make if they feel it is necessary.

this isn't Wayne Gretzky this is a third line defensively responsible player.

I don't think you have to convince anyone that. However he was a 3rd line defensively responsible player. There is a non-zero chance he is better than that since he's not 19-20 anymore. Further accented, but not guaranteed, by his improved NHLE, since production was his area of on-ice flaw.

A player who has slag talked the KHL in the past then chose it over the NHL because he personally felt he knew how to be played better than his coach knew how to play him.(okay the money helped, but he eschewed that money when he chose to come here instead of play in an "old mans" league the first time around.)

Or maybe the money was the only reason. Who knows.

He trashed talked a successful veteran NHL teammate, right wrong or indifferent, I don't consider that to be the type of thing at character player would do.
Add it up with all the RUMORS and reports, and it sure as heck looks like he does have character issues.

Trashed? He said he did not trash anyone:

“I knew I could make the Top-6, felt that I could play there. But coach wanted Jokinen there, expected a lot from him and granted more and more ice time. And that probably broke me under. But that’s ok. A great experience"

I think it's funny you bring up the fact he was on the trade market then pass it off as nothing.my point has always been that if the Jets were really hot on this guy as many posters in this thread seem to think, He would have been kept.

I know that he was on the trade market like about 1/3 of our roster at one point or the other. That's what GMs do. They discuss this stuff. I hope Chevy is open to talk about every player on the Jets given the right price.

See above about bending backwards. They can't be both not caring and bending over backwards at the same time.

Do I blame him for manipulating the situation to his own financial advantage,? No.
do I think that we as an organization should expend a bunch of energy danceing to this guys tune, feeding what I consider to be an over inflated ego? No.

Let's trade his rights away let someone else in their tires with this kid and move on.

If trading his rights is optimal asset usage, then by all means. But given everything, I think it's likely Burmistrov's playing value is greater than his trade value. RFA outside of the NHL for 2 years likely diminishes his trade value. I just want asset and win optimization. Screw anything else.

 

[KCjetsfan]

just another thing to point out. if burmi was difficult to play with it was likely at least partially because he didn't play the system that was wanted by Noel (i.e. dump and chase). Right or wrong, i see that as probably what led to the benching. His style fits in much better with what Maurice has implemented. I just don't see how anyone can't project our 3rd line being much stronger with him on it than thorburn, halischuk, or lowry, even if he performs at the exact same level he did 2 years ago as a 21 year old.

And to echo ps21 - if it were easy to fill our 3rd line with actual talent i would've hoped we would have done so already.

Whether he comes back to play in that role, or is traded for a player who can fulfill that same role, remains to be seen, but i just don't see us not getting something out of this.

 

[Skidooboy]

Garret your constantly shifting goal posts.

People say that Burmistrov Has character issues you demand proof i present evidence, even you aknowledge there are questions about his character. Now suddenly it doesn't matter about his character we're really just talking about solid value asset management and cold analytics. I can't win if the field keep shifting.
Are we just talking about his stats or are we talking about his character as well.

We know TNSE places serious emphasis on character, this asset might not fit that profile.

I think it's time to turn the page and MoveOn.

You seem to think that we shoehorn him in no matter what he says does or thinks simply because he has "value".
This board is jumping at every little tidbit this guy and his agent spit out like dogs after a milk bone, I'm getting bored of the storyline.

If rather Trade his rights for a pick that could in fact someday fit the TNSE profile. Even if it's not a "sure thing".

I think we're better off as an organization if we do.

 

[Board Bard]

I know that he was on the trade market like about 1/3 of our roster at one point or the other. That's what GMs do. They discuss this stuff. I hope Chevy is open to talk about every player on the Jets given the right price.

I'd guess they tried harder to trade Burmi than they ever did to trade Thorburn. If that's true, that's about as stupid as stupid gets.

 

[EpicGingy]

I'd guess they tried harder to trade Burmi than they ever did to trade Thorburn. If that's true, that's about as stupid as stupid gets.

Before Burmi left for Russia he would have had far more trade value than Thorburn so it wouldn't really be stupid.

Burmi may have at least returned something valuable.

 

[Board Bard]

Before Burmi left for Russia he would have had far more trade value than Thorburn so it wouldn't really be stupid.

Burmi may have at least returned something valuable.

So would Little, Ladd, Wheeler, Buff, etc.

You get something valuable if you give up something valuable.

Getting rid of garbage is also valuable. Plus you'd have an extra bag of pucks.

 

[garret9]

Garret your constantly shifting goal posts.

People say that Burmistrov Has character issues you demand proof i present evidence, even you acknowledge there are questions about his character. Now suddenly it doesn't matter about his character we're really just talking about solid value asset management and cold analytics. I can't win if the field keep shifting.
Are we just talking about his stats or are we talking about his character as well.

We know TNSE places serious emphasis on character, this asset might not fit that profile.

I think it's time to turn the page and MoveOn.

You seem to think that we shoehorn him in no matter what he says does or thinks simply because he has "value".
This board is jumping at every little tidbit this guy and his agent spit out like dogs after a milk bone, I'm getting bored of the storyline.

If rather Trade his rights for a pick that could in fact someday fit the TNSE profile. Even if it's not a "sure thing".

I think we're better off as an organization if we do.

What goal posts have been shifted? If you change what I say sure.

I asked for proof to him being overvalued if you go back. I asked what is he being valued as here, what is his true value, and what is the difference. I still await to hear his value.

I never said his character doesn't matter. Character matters. We just don't know about his character. You are assuming it and assuming you are right. All I'm saying is that you could be wrong. Neither of us know what his character was and if we did we don't know if it is still the same.

We do know what his on-ice value is. It's good. You discussed his on-ice value also, so I think it's fine that I counter it.

I do not think that we should accept any player. In fact, I said:
If trading his rights is optimal asset usage, then by all means.
I just don't believe it is optimal asset usage. Which maybe I could end up being wrong, since there is the chance his character negatively makes up for it. I don't believe it does just from what I've heard about him from people I trust but I am at least understanding that I could be wrong.

You think one way, and you know what, you could be right.
I don't agree, but I could be wrong.

No posts being moved. My opinion has been the same for 2 years now.

 

[Constable]

Garret your constantly shifting goal posts.

People say that Burmistrov Has character issues you demand proof i present evidence, even you aknowledge there are questions about his character. Now suddenly it doesn't matter about his character we're really just talking about solid value asset management and cold analytics. I can't win if the field keep shifting.
Are we just talking about his stats or are we talking about his character as well.

oh boy its really hard to take you seriously

theres a difference between being in the doghouse and actually being treated bad by your coach. players like subban and karlsson end up in the doghouse sometimes but its simply sit off for a few shifts. when you have a offensive dynamo and the coach plays him just because he doesnt have anyone else to play and treats him like dogs treat cats.

burmistrov could have character issues, but for all we know the coach could have just hated him. i doubt someone with the capabilities to be a prime offensive players would bolt to the KHL to play on the 2nd-3rd line for 2 years for no particular reason.