Alex Ovechkin vs Evgeni Malkin

[Gorskyontario]

You should check your information before you spout false data.

2009
Malkin: 36
Crosby: 31

2016
Malkin: 18(in 1 less game)
Crosby: 19

2017
Malkin: 28
Crosby: 27

You're right, Crosby had a 1 point lead when having an additional game in 2016, Malkin still carried him.

Ovechkin has two more Hart trophies and 355 more goals...and he didn't have the elite talent around him that Malkin did

Ovechkin played on an offensively elite team nearly his entire career.

 

[daver]

2009
Malkin: 36
Crosby: 31

2016
Malkin: 18(in 1 less game)
Crosby: 19

2017
Malkin: 28
Crosby: 27

You're right, Crosby had a 1 point lead when having an additional game in 2016, Malkin still carried him.

If Malkin "carried" Crosby in 2016 (he didn't) then Crosby carried Malkin in 2017 (he didn't).

And Crosby carried Malkin to the SCF in 2009 if we use your definition.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Ovechkin is ranked higher all time. Gretzky is also greater than Mario but not necessarily better player.

 

[Professor What]

If Malkin "carried" Crosby in 2016 (he didn't) then Crosby carried Malkin in 2017 (he didn't).

And Crosby carried Malkin to the SCF in 2009 if we use your definition.

Don't waste your time. The goal posts are going to constantly move. I regret having engaged myself.

 

[Gorskyontario]

If Malkin "carried" Crosby in 2016 (he didn't) then Crosby carried Malkin in 2017 (he didn't).

And Crosby carried Malkin to the SCF in 2009 if we use your definition.

Malkin was the better playoff performer in all their stanley cup runs(except 2008 when they lost).

Crosby had 2 or 3 points in the 2009 finals.

 

[Nathaniel]

2009
Malkin: 36
Crosby: 31

2016
Malkin: 18(in 1 less game)
Crosby: 19

2017
Malkin: 28
Crosby: 27

You're right, Crosby had a 1 point lead when having an additional game in 2016, Malkin still carried him.



Ovechkin played on an offensively elite team nearly his entire career.

Lol you left out the fact that Malkin had 1 more point in with having an additional game in 2017. All in all crosby scored 77 points in the 3 cup wins and Malkin scored 82. This is with crosby taking the number 1 defensive units and being far better in the dot etc.

Malkin was the better playoff performer in all their stanley cup runs(except 2008 when they lost).

Crosby had 2 or 3 points in the 2009 finals.

Crosby also led the 2017 finals in scoring. Fun fact crosby had more points in 3/4 finals

 

[Gorskyontario]

Lol you left out the fact that Malkin had 1 more point in with having an additional game in 2017. All in all crosby scored 77 points in the 3 cup wins and Malkin scored 82. This is with crosby taking the number 1 defensive units and being far better in the dot etc.

In 2017 I distinctly remember Crosby matching up(and to his credit, dominating) an old Joe Thoenton. Not exactly the 'hardest match up'.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Wait wait wait...what's happening here?

Malkin wasn't a top 3 Penguin in 2016.

He had a better claim in 2017. But Malkin wasn't better than Sid in that playoffs.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Malkin wasn't a top 3 Penguin in 2016.

Why not?

Personally I thought the best penguin was Kessel in 2016.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Of course it does. Which isn't to say that availability and longevity should NOT be valued, of course it should. But this poster militantly opposed "per game" stuff, until it favors Ovechkin. Militantly opposes "fantasy", until "adjusted" stats favor Ovechkin. It's just all buffet style logic, thus my tongue-in-cheek comment haha

That is blatantly false.

There is nothing inconsistent about what I’ve said regarding ppg or adjusted stats.

 

[Zine]

At their absolute best Malkin was better. But Geno could never maintain that level of play for any considerable length of time.
All time it's Ovechkin, rather easily.

 

[GlitchMarner]

At their absolute best Malkin was better. But Geno could never maintain that level of play for any considerable length of time.
All time it's Ovechkin, rather easily.

Even this is debatable. Malkin was extremely good from 2008 to 2009 and in 2012, but was he better than Ovechkin from 2008 to 2010? Even in the playoffs, I'm not sure he played better than Ovechkin in the '09 playoffs. Obviously he had a deeper and longer playoff run.

 

[Gorskyontario]

I'm not sure he played better than Ovechkin in the '09 playoffs. Obviously he had a deeper and longer playoff run.

He scored 36 points, and won the cup and conn smythe so It's pretty clear he outplayed Ovechkin heavily.

 

[JackSlater]

He scored 36 points, and won the cup and conn smythe so It's pretty clear he outplayed Ovechkin heavily.

This is pretty illustrative of part of the problem that people have comparing players but using the playoffs. Did Malkin outplay Ovehhkin heavily... or did his team just advance two rounds further than Ovechkins's did? Through two rounds Malkin had 19 points in 13 games, Ovechkin had 21 points in 14 games. Malkin was second on his team in scoring, Ovechkin was first. They actually played each other in a seven game series, and Ovechkin led the series in scoring. Malkin went on to absolutely torch a mediocre Carolina team in the conference finals and led Pittsburgh against Detroit, when Detroit put all its eggs in the Crosby basket.

Credit to Malkin for excelling in the final two rounds, it was a great playoff performance and certainly one of the best of this century. You can definitely suggest that Malkin outplayed Ovechkin, mainly due to how he excelled in the oportunity afforded him. I don't know that anyone could conclude that he heavily outplayed Ovechkin though. He got more games in. Ovechkin was excellent in those playoffs.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Why not?

Personally I thought the best penguin was Kessel in 2016.

Not nearly as impactful as Kessel, Crosby, or Letang at the very least.

Signed,
Every Pens Fan

 

[authentic]

Not nearly as impactful as Kessel, Crosby, or Letang at the very least.

Signed,
Every Pens Fan

If I remember correctly it was Letang who played best the first 2 rounds, Crosby the final 2 and Kessel led in scoring feasting on weaker matchups. Crosby’s Conn Smythe may have been a relatively weak one but no one on his team deserved it over him that year.

 

[daver]

Even this is debatable. Malkin was extremely good from 2008 to 2009 and in 2012, but was he better than Ovechkin from 2008 to 2010? Even in the playoffs, I'm not sure he played better than Ovechkin in the '09 playoffs. Obviously he had a deeper and longer playoff run.

You could argue that Malkin, at his best, brought as much offense individually as Ovechkin while raising the level of play of his linemates, usually mediocre/borderline Top 6 level, and being an effective 2-way player (or at least being a contributing player on the defensive side as Ovechkin was given the greenlight to cheat). Ovechkin was effective with his physicality but that also was because he was given the greenlight to hit anything he wanted with no regard for defensive positioning.

The only thing he really lacked over a peak Ovechkin was the ability to score a goal at any given time and the Crosby factor is also a reasonable consideration.

It is a bit of a apples to oranges comparison.

 

[DRW895]

Nothing to compare. Malkin is just a supporting cast of Crosby.

 

[Regal]

Ovechkin had the better peak (though it was close), and the much healthier and better overall career. I do think Malkin, when he was healthy and on his game, was a better all around play driver and offensive player after Ovechkin regressed from his peak. The problem is he had a lot of missed games and down periods mixed in that I don’t see the argument for Malkin unless you really want to cherry pick stuff.

 

[WarriorofTime]

It's perhaps a bit surprising (to some) that Malkin doesn't rank higher on a lot of rolling 5-year point lists

2006-07 through 2010-11: 8th in points
2007-08 through 2011-12: 3rd in points
2008-09 through 2012-13: 7th in points
2009-10 through 2013-14: 16th in points
2010-11 through 2014-15: 15th in points
2011-12 through 2015-16: 7th in points
2012-13 through 2016-17: 15th in points
2013-14 through 2017-18: 10th in points
2014-15 through 2018-19: 14th in points
2015-16 through 2019-20: 12th in points
2016-17 through 2020-21: 18th in points
2017-18 through 2021-22: 30th in points
2018-19 through 2022-23: 38th in points
2019-20 through 2023-24: 48th in points

The timing of 37 points in 43 GP, 2010-11 (5th year, in between his two AR seasons), affects things a lot as does a lot of missed games and 70-80 point type seasons after his second AR.

Comparing Ovechkin and Malkin in terms of raw point totals with rounded number cutoffs:

110+: 2 for Ovechkin, 1 for Malkin
100-109: 2 for Ovechkin, 2 for Malkin [running total 4-3 Ovechkin]
90-99: 2 for Ovechkin, 1 for Malkin [running total 6-4 Ovechkin]
80-89: 4 for Ovechkin, 2 for Malkin [running total 10-6 Ovechkin]
70-79: 3 for Ovechkin, 6 for Malkin [running total 13-12 Ovechkin]
60-69: 4 for Ovechkin, 1 for Malkin [running total 17-13 Ovechkin]
50-59: 1 for Ovechkin [short season], 1 for Malkin [running total 18-14 Ovechkin]
40-49: 1 for Ovechkin [short season], 1 for Malkin [running total 19-15 Ovechkin]
30-39: 0 for Ovechkin, 2 for Malkin [1 in short season] [running total 19-17 Ovechkin]
20-29: 0 for Ovechkin, 1 for Malkin [short season] [running total 19-18 Ovechkin]

 

[Thenameless]

I think, at each's best, it's basically a tie. Malkin's 2008-09 season, RS + playoffs, is probably as good or better than any stern-to-stern season Ovechkin has had, and Malkin's 2010-11 is up there, too. On the other hand, Ovechkin's 2007-08 is likely as good or better than any Malkin regular season.

Looking at extended primes, statistically...

Malkin 2007-08 to 2019-20 (RS only):
1.20 PPG

Ovechkin 2005-06 to 2018-19 (RS only):
1.12 PPG

Ovechkin comes out a bit better in plus/minus; Malkin comes out a bit better in playoffs, partly due to four Cup runs.

Overall, about even. I mean, I guess if push comes to show Ovi gets the higher ranking because of better longevity (and durability). But at each's best, I call it even.

You said it all here. 100%.