Alex Ovechkin vs Evgeni Malkin

[JackSlater]

Neither of them touched the level of play that Malkin hit in the 09 playoffs with 36 in 22. Beyond the eye popping point total, he beat up everyone in that run, not just feasting on 1 opponent.

Philly: 4-5-9 in 6
Caps: 2-8-10 in 7
Canes: 6-3-9 in 4
Wings: 2-6-8 in 7

I don't know, that same season Ovechkin had 21 points in 14 games, and unlike Malkin in 2009 he always faced the other team's best defensive options. Malkin's numbers are obviously better as he was on a team that eventually won the Stanley Cup, but I'm not sure that his level of play was necessarily higher. Certainly he wasn't at a level that Ovechkin (or Crosby) never touched.

 

[bobholly39]

Malkin at his absolute best was superior to both Ovechkin and Crosby. ‘Beast mode’ Malkin was practically unstoppable.
That said, he could never maintain that level of play on a regular basis.

Ovechkin takes this quite easily.

I see people say that often, and I don't really agree.

Because "beast mode" Crosby or Ovechkin are pretty damn spectacular themselves.

I think people are a bit wow'd by peak Malkin because how much better peak Malkin is than career Malkin. Whereas for career, peak Ovy/Crosby are closer to career Crosby/Ovy so it stands out a bit less.

ie career - Ovechkin/Crosby >> Malkin

Peak - it's closer

But - just because it's close, it doesn't mean Malkin is better. All 3 are truly fantastic at their peaks. I still take Crosby #1 myself.

 

[Nathaniel]

I see people say that often, and I don't really agree.

Because "beast mode" Crosby or Ovechkin are pretty damn spectacular themselves.

I think people are a bit wow'd by peak Malkin because how much better peak Malkin is than career Malkin. Whereas for career, peak Ovy/Crosby are closer to career Crosby/Ovy so it stands out a bit less.

ie career - Ovechkin/Crosby >> Malkin

Peak - it's closer

But - just because it's close, it doesn't mean Malkin is better. All 3 are truly fantastic at their peaks. I still take Crosby #1 myself.

Crosby from 10-11 to end of 13-14 was far more dominant than either ov or malkin ever were.

 

[MadLuke]

Neither of them touched the level of play that Malkin hit in the 09 playoffs with 36 in 22. Beyond the eye popping point total, he beat up everyone in that run, not just feasting on 1 opponent.

Philly: 4-5-9 in 6
Caps: 2-8-10 in 7
Canes: 6-3-9 in 4
Wings: 2-6-8 in 7

Ovechkin that year went
7 in 7
14 in 7 against Malkin

Ovechkin despite the lost was +10 (70% gf)at even strength that spring in 14 games, Malkin was only +4 in 24 games.

If we say feasting on 1 opponent... that opponent was Malkin team.

I doubt 08-11 Ovechkin, 11-14 Crosby never touched Malkin incredibly 09 level of play.

 

[daver]

I think Malkin not only didn't feel he was 2nd fiddle in Pittsburgh i.e. he would have been better as the #1 guy on another team, he thrived from having Crosby take on all the external pressure and attention.

 

[MadLuke]

Malkin did really well when Crosby missed time, 2012 Hart season when Crosby played what 22 games.

Not sure there is a reason to think it would have been an issue to be the center of attention and good reason to think he would have been good at it

 

[authentic]

Ovechkin, but it's a little closer than a lot of folks think - based on my perception of what other people think.

I think for much of their careers Malkin was the better player, even at their peaks I would be inclined to take Malkin over him by a hair. It really comes down to health and goal scoring why Ovechkin will be perceived as the better all-time player.

 

[authentic]

I think Malkin not only didn't feel he was 2nd fiddle in Pittsburgh i.e. he would have been better as the #1 guy on another team, he thrived from having Crosby take on all the external pressure and attention.

Malkin did really well when Crosby missed time, 2012 Hart season when Crosby played what 22 games.

Not sure there is a reason to think it would have been an issue to be the center of attention and good reason to think he would have been good at it

I think Malkin perhaps could’ve been even better on a team where he was the clear #1 center and offensive forward and having the powerplay run through him constantly.

 

[authentic]

I don't know, that same season Ovechkin had 21 points in 14 games, and unlike Malkin in 2009 he always faced the other team's best defensive options. Malkin's numbers are obviously better as he was on a team that eventually won the Stanley Cup, but I'm not sure that his level of play was necessarily higher. Certainly he wasn't at a level that Ovechkin (or Crosby) never touched.

It’s actually striking how close each of them were at their best. I think Malkin on his best day gives them a run for their money for best player, but there isn’t really a wrong answer here. Ovechkin had more games at that level, Crosby had the least but was the most complete player of the three, but Malkin just took over games in such an obvious way when he was on that made him look like he had a level of control even beyond what they had.

 

[Nathaniel]

Malkins hat trick game against the hurricanes in 09 was at a level I dont think ive seen ovechkin or even crosby at. That behind the net backhand goal was f***ing Godly.

 

[JackSlater]

It’s actually striking how close each of them were at their best. I think Malkin on his best day gives them a run for their money for best player, but there isn’t really a wrong answer here. Ovechkin had more games at that level, Crosby had the least but was the most complete player of the three, but Malkin just took over games in such an obvious way when he was on that made him look like he had a level of control even beyond what they had.

I think that's true for a lot of all time greats who are roughly at the same level. People get bogged down with how a career played out, but yeah at their bests Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin are all close. That's why at the time most people recognized that they were the clear three best players of their generation. Malkin will suffer in all time rankings relative to players who were clearly worse but who were healthier.

 

[MadLuke]

This is probably quite true, Joe Sakic on a good 1996 or 2001 day, Forsberg on a good day are they below them ? Probably not at all, would we fall out of our chair if Forsberg during his best day was the best ?

Pronger, Lindros.... list could go on of people that could compete with the non Gretzky-Lemieux on their best days.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Crosby from 10-11 to end of 13-14 was far more dominant than either ov or malkin ever were.

Nope.

 

[Midnight Judges]

"Per game" is back, baby

Feel free to explain your comment, and how it makes any sense or has any relevance to this thread.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Feel free to explain your comment, and how it makes any sense or has any relevance to this thread.

You gave Ovechkin credit for points per game. Other players are seldom so fortunate.

 

[Midnight Judges]

You gave Ovechkin credit for points per game. Other players are seldom so fortunate.

In the regular season, each team plays the same number of games.

In the playoffs, this is not true. Often, a player's team plays fewer games through little or no fault of their own.

Therefore, PPG is a more useful metric in the playoffs than in the regular season.

 

[Gorskyontario]

If Ovechkin was so much better than Malkin. Why does Malkin have 3x his cups, and 2x his art ross trophies?

Why did Ovechkin never put up 36 points in the playoffs?

Malkin should have won the 2017 smythe.

 

[Staniowski]

I've always thought Malkin was a better player.

A better skater, better puck-carrier, better passer. Smart, excellent offensive instincts, and a good goal-scorer. Beautiful skill for a big guy.

He's also better on Team Russia, his style meshes better with the classic Russian skill game than does Ovechkin's.

 

[MadLuke]

and 2x his art ross trophies?

Because Ovechkin missed 5 games in 2010 due to suspension (and we cannot give some Malkin keep a cool head unlike Ovechkin edge here), that a binary way to think.

Why does Malkin have 3x his cups,

A certain 87 player ?

 

[Gorskyontario]

A certain 87 player ?

Who Malkin outscored and outplayed in all 3 cup wins.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

If Ovechkin was so much better than Malkin. Why does Malkin have 3x his cups, and 2x his art ross trophies?

Why did Ovechkin never put up 36 points in the playoffs?

Malkin should have won the 2017 smythe.

Ovechkin has two more Hart trophies and 355 more goals...and he didn't have the elite talent around him that Malkin did

 

[MadLuke]

Ovechkin has two more Hart trophies and 355 more goals...and he didn't have the elite talent around him that Malkin did

In 2009 playoff Malkin scored 20 points at even strength playing with top 5 in minutes helping him:

old Fedotenko
Max Talbot
Orpik
Young Letang
Eaton

In his first Art Ross winning season:
Sykora (last leg)
Orpik
Fedotenko
Crosby
Letang

Second one:
Neal
Kunitz
Martin
Orpik
Niskanen

Not sure Backstrom-Green/Carlson and co. is a drop from that, never had a Crosby level game breaker to win cups obviously and that fair, but Malkin linemate before the Kessel year were rarely all that special, not terrible sometime, sometine a good scorer like Neal and Kunitz when Crosby was injured....

Who Malkin outscored and outplayed in all 3 cup wins.

Well many would disagree with the last part, the first one is just factually wrong (not by much, but by a little)

 

[jigglysquishy]

That 2012 season was fantastic, but Neal-Malkin-Kunitz was a stacked line. Guys that gelled well. Neal with the big shot. It might not have the name value, but the three parts combined into one of the best lines of the post lockout era.

 

[Nathaniel]

Who Malkin outscored and outplayed in all 3 cup wins.

You should check your information before you spout false data.

 

[daver]

That 2012 season was fantastic, but Neal-Malkin-Kunitz was a stacked line. Guys that gelled well. Neal with the big shot. It might not have the name value, but the three parts combined into one of the best lines of the post lockout era.

For the record, Malkin was at 1.40 PPG without Crosby that year.

Without Crosby, the Pens were like most teams with one star player, load up a #1 line to max out their offense. I don't think that season needs any qualification of having unusually good chemistry as Malkin has already showed he could produce with any quality of linemate.

The "facing easier matchups" argument that you could claim for his other seasons, IMO, really only applies to the playoffs, most notably against the Wings where in both '08 and '09, Crosby was matched against Zetterberg and Lidstrom and faced more time against Datsyuk.

Malkin also went off during Crosby's absence in 2008.

His numbers speak for themselves; as high a peak as Crosby and Ovechkin but more inconsistency and more injury-prone.