Alex Nylander

[ChiHawk21]

where do the hawks go with this going foward with some good guys moving up the ranks in the offseason?

Suter Kurashev Barrett Entwhistle

Debrincat Strome Toews Kane Kubalik Shaw Saad Dach Kampf Carpenter all have roles. smith hagel and highmore all have contracts too.

 

[Brightwing]

Nylander got all the opportunity in the world this year. I understand he's young and still has the potential to grow and get better but I think he's going to be in tough next year because there are going to be other guys fighting for his spot next year and the competition is going to be tougher than Dylan Sikura.

 

[CCook37]

Hawks need to figure out what Nylander is. He has shown to play a two way game but seems to either play out of his role or be miscast by JC. I would assume the latter with JCs incompetence. He has the size and skill set to do be a solid two way player. I’m interested to see his development.

 

[JaegerDice]

With the season on the line, they preferred John f***ing Quenneville.

I think that says it all.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

At this point the trade is no good...

 

[Toews2Bickell]

With the season on the line, they preferred John f***ing Quenneville.

I think that says it all.

would like to know if there is some backstory to this because Nylander didn't play himself completely out of the lineup for an AHL forward...he was completely fine on the 4th line with Kampf and Carpenter

 

[Hawkey]

He’s 22, at some point soon(now?) the Hawks have to decide if he is worth the effort in investment. How long should they continue to gift a spot for him and hold back others from earning a spot? As some have said, there is more depth pushing for spots.

It would be frustrating for other prospects that work hard to try earn a spot, only to see him continue to be given opportunities just because he was drafted high and for Stan to try save face on what is looking like a terrible trade.

The hawks have been fortunate that quality prospect free agents have been signing with them, but that could change if they feel they aren’t given a fair opportunity to make the nhl club.

 

[RayP]

With the season on the line, they preferred John f***ing Quenneville.

I think that says it all.

It says 2 things. Nylander sucks and our coach is an idiot.

 

[Bubba88]

Playing Devil's Advocate here: Is the playoffs really the best situation to give him time to grow if he hasn't shown any indication of rising to the challenge?

I never said he has to Play in the POs and learn there. I never said it's a mistake to leave him out in the POs against Vegas.

I'm Talking About the "no Talent" stuff. Nylander has all the Talent but isn't able to put it together.

All apologists here talk about tools and talent...which tools? Nobody ever mentioned even one. Talented at what? Killing plays, turning over pucks, floating around stupidly? If that's what you're talking about then yeah...he's easily the most talented player of both bubbles.

Effort may be part of the problem but the real problem is that they're not even half as talented as many for some reason thought they were. The other huge problem is their hockey IQ of almost 0. Did you see what happened when Keefe put William at Center? He didn't have the slightest clue what to do or where to go. Not the slightest. It was a disaster and every beer leaguer could have done the same. Alex has the same issues in every game. There's zero purpose in his game. He's almost always out of position against the puck and he doesn't know what to do when he gets it. So he mostly just ends up doing nothing or turning it over. At the end of the day they just suck at hockey. There's nothing they're really good at but so many things they're bad at with them being soft and not thinking the game fast enough being the absolut worst. As a hockey Coach I wouldn't want any of them on my team. These are the players that drive Coaches crazy. They should just go back to Sweden where they have much more time and space but they'll never work out in NA. William probably could in a limited 3rd line role but he's not gonna put the work in to get there. An absolute anchor of a contract for Toronto. Alex just isn't good enough. Period.

Dude, what are you even trying to say? It's not apology to say he has all the Talent and Tools. It's the truth. He has the Vision, he can backcheck/forecheck. He can shoot solid and can handle the puck. Talent is obvious and not the Problem with him. That you can't see this tells enough. Everybody is saying this isn't his Problem, nobody is saying he has to Play or he is even worth an Extension at this Point. He'll stay and be left open for the expension Draft (think this is possible?).

Why even bring up William? You think William does not belong to the NHL? You hold it against him playing out of Position and not Looking good? Total BS that even you should understand.
Contract is not making a Player better or worse ON THE ICE.

Sorry, you are typically a troll (on the mainboards) so I tend to ignore your posts.

What tools? He is a good skater who is good on his edges, plays solid D, stickhandles well, and shoots well. He has decent vision and passes well. He knows where to go in the ice as well. He is actually a decent forechecker and back checker. He does not lose his man in the zone. He has a decent toolbox when he is playing smart but that is not all ways the case.

His consistency and compete are the biggest issues.

He is at his best when he plays a north-south game with skill but does not do well east-west.

That's all that Needs to be said About him as Player.

 

[Muffinalt]

would like to know if there is some backstory to this because Nylander didn't play himself completely out of the lineup for an AHL forward...he was completely fine on the 4th line with Kampf and Carpenter

Im sure the goal was to balance the lines. Especially putting Saad with Cat Strome, which did work btw. Toews and Kubalik play well with a heavier guy, hence it was Q over Nylander. Cagguila was already 'occupied' on Kane's line so... I understand the thinking.

It just speaks to how few of these type of guys we actually have on the roster. Ones who can actually do stuff offensively too.

 

[jfc64]

I say let's enable using one u23 player in the JWC.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Im sure the goal was to balance the lines. Especially putting Saad with Cat Strome, which did work btw. Toews and Kubalik play well with a heavier guy, hence it was Q over Nylander. Cagguila was already 'occupied' on Kane's line so... I understand the thinking.

It just speaks to how few of these type of guys we actually have on the roster. Ones who can actually do stuff offensively too.

Right, and that’s why you don’t run a line balancing experiment in a playoff elimination game when you simply don’t have the personnel to roll three complete scoring lines.

Colliton’s obsession with doing the three lines Penguins thing is so misguided, the Pens had two generational centers who were able to carry and dominate with pretty much any one of the middle-six type wingers put with them (Guentzel developed into being much better, but he wasn’t exactly where he is now during the Cup runs). Toews needs good wingers on both wings, and to a lesser extent Kane should have at least one good player with him. You can’t expect these guys to do the Crosby/Malkin thing and dominate play with mediocre linemates, especially in the playoffs.

Putting an AHLer with your best center just for the sake of “balance” is dumb to me. You don’t see any other team doing this shit unless it’s Crosby, McDavid, or Malkin (Toews isn’t any of those guys offensively). Bergeron, the closest comp to Toews, has played on an absolutely loaded line for what, four years now? You don’t see him playing with some plug and look how things have gone for Boston (no Cup, but way better results than the Hawks).

Load up the top six with your best talent in order to maximize their impact and build a third line by actually acquiring/developing good depth players. Strome has more than enough talent to carry a third line, he just needs to want to. If Tuch can do it with two bottom-sixers and create an effective third line, Strome should be able to too.

I would’ve gone

Kubalik-Toews-Saad

DeBrincat-Dach-Kane

Kurashev/Caggiula-Strome-Kurashev/Nylander

Carpenter-Kampf-Highmore/Caggiula

Not “balanced”? Well, I don’t give a f***. JC. Those lines are still better than what you rolled out in Game 5.

 

[Muffinalt]

Right, and that’s why you don’t run a line balancing experiment in a playoff elimination game when you simply don’t have the personnel to roll three complete scoring lines.

Colliton’s obsession with doing the three lines Penguins thing is so misguided, the Pens had two generational centers who were able to carry and dominate with pretty much any one of the middle-six type wingers put with them (Guentzel developed into being much better, but he wasn’t exactly where he is now during the Cup runs). Toews needs good wingers on both wings, and to a lesser extent Kane should have at least one good player with him. You can’t expect these guys to do the Crosby/Malkin thing and dominate play with mediocre linemates, especially in the playoffs.

Putting an AHLer with your best center just for the sake of “balance” is dumb to me. You don’t see any other team doing this shit unless it’s Crosby, McDavid, or Malkin (Toews isn’t any of those guys offensively). Bergeron, the closest comp to Toews, has played on an absolutely loaded line for what, four years now? You don’t see him playing with some plug and look how things have gone for Boston (no Cup, but way better results than the Hawks).

Load up the top six with your best talent in order to maximize their impact and build a third line by actually acquiring/developing good depth players. Strome has more than enough talent to carry a third line, he just needs to want to. If Tuch can do it with two bottom-sixers and create an effective third line, Strome should be able to too.

I would’ve gone

Kubalik-Toews-Saad

DeBrincat-Dach-Kane

Kurashev/Caggiula-Strome-Kurashev/Nylander

Carpenter-Kampf-Highmore/Caggiula

Not “balanced”? Well, I don’t give a f***. JC. Those lines are still better than what you rolled out in Game 5.

Well in hindsight its easier to say. When the lines were unbalanced plenty of us speculated about balancing them, hell before the matchup it was even said even more. Probably not the best way I agree, especially at the end of the game.

I also think that Saad getting hurt kind of mixed up the plans. He was getting double shifted on the 1st and 3rd line, Q was getting fewer shifts. Maybe there was some fear Saad could only take less after the fall.

Anywho the game wasnt lost on that one guy, whether it was Q, Nylander or Kurashev. I hope that we address this now and get more gritty middle 6/top 6 players we can depend on.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Well in hindsight its easier to say. When the lines were unbalanced plenty of us speculated about balancing them, hell before the matchup it was even said even more. Probably not the best way I agree, especially at the end of the game.

I also think that Saad getting hurt kind of mixed up the plans. He was getting double shifted on the 1st and 3rd line, Q was getting fewer shifts. Maybe there was some fear Saad could only take less after the fall.

Anywho the game wasnt lost on that one guy, whether it was Q, Nylander or Kurashev. I hope that we address this now and get more gritty middle 6/top 6 players we can depend on.

Mostly agree. I’m just not a big fan of the three line balancing act in general. Either you have the depth or you don’t, I don’t think you handcuff your best players in order to pretend you have depth (unless you have a Crosby, Malkin, or McDavid).

 

[Panzerspitze]

Mostly agree. I’m just not a big fan of the three line balancing act in general. Either you have the depth or you don’t, I don’t think you handcuff you’re best players in order to pretend you have depth (unless you have a Crosby, Malkin, or McDavid).

Well, management (Bowman) and most fans still act like there are more Cups to be squeezed out of this core, as if Toews/Kane/Keith could channel Crosby/Malkin/Letang.

 

[Pertti]

I never said he has to Play in the POs and learn there. I never said it's a mistake to leave him out in the POs against Vegas.

I'm Talking About the "no Talent" stuff. Nylander has all the Talent but isn't able to put it together.


Dude, what are you even trying to say? It's not apology to say he has all the Talent and Tools. It's the truth. He has the Vision, he can backcheck/forecheck. He can shoot solid and can handle the puck. Talent is obvious and not the Problem with him. That you can't see this tells enough. Everybody is saying this isn't his Problem, nobody is saying he has to Play or he is even worth an Extension at this Point. He'll stay and be left open for the expension Draft (think this is possible?).

Why even bring up William? You think William does not belong to the NHL? You hold it against him playing out of Position and not Looking good? Total BS that even you should understand.
Contract is not making a Player better or worse ON THE ICE.



That's all that Needs to be said About him as Player.

Bolded: Is it really talent if he doesn't know how to use it?

Since he has a contract, I would let him play next year for one last chance. Someone wrote that team should find a place for him where he is good and not a slot him were 8OA pick should be, very good advice.

 

[LordKOTL]

I never said he has to Play in the POs and learn there. I never said it's a mistake to leave him out in the POs against Vegas.

I'm Talking About the "no Talent" stuff. Nylander has all the Talent but isn't able to put it together.

I never said you did. My point was for all of those people harping on about Nylander's talent as if talent and talent alone was the end-all-beat-all: If he has the talent but isn't bringing it to bear in the playoffs, why play him? At what point does it go from "giving him a chance" to "an exercise in futility comparable to Wile E. Coyote"?

In my opinion the time for younger players to learn to put it all together is the reg. season. Once it is playoff time, they either produce or they don't, and if they don't you have to minimize the damage. Since plays were routinely dying on Nylander's stick (not just him to be fair), at what point is trying to get him going with, say, Kane crossing over into him handcuffing Kane? In the regular season that can be fleshed out. In the playoffs that has to be minimized.

I believe Nylander has another season on his deal. I'm okay with keeping him as long as the coaching staff and/or vets tell him to start putting his nose to the grindstone and playing with some heart, but if he can't regularly bring it to bear in a contract year, then maybe cut him loose.

 

[LordKOTL]

Bolded: Is it really talent if he doesn't know how to use it?

Since he has a contract, I would let him play next year for one last chance. Someone wrote that team should find a place for him where he is good and not a slot him were 8OA pick should be, very good advice.

Yes, talent and drive are mutually exclusive. Remember the "lazy Russian" stereotype from a few decades ago? That was a prime example of lotta talent/little drive.

 

[Northernhawk]

Nylander to NYR for Gegoriev?

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Im sure the goal was to balance the lines. Especially putting Saad with Cat Strome, which did work btw. Toews and Kubalik play well with a heavier guy, hence it was Q over Nylander. Cagguila was already 'occupied' on Kane's line so... I understand the thinking.

It just speaks to how few of these type of guys we actually have on the roster. Ones who can actually do stuff offensively too.

JC could've put Caggiula with Toews, they've played well in the past, and put Nylander with Dach and Kane...Liked the Cat-Strome-Saad line as well, could see that being a productive line next year...

 

[GaryU]

Like I said before, Nylander shoulda played heavy Top 6 minutes in Rockford. PK, PP, everything. Still coulda brought him in for the 'playoffs' if he progressed.

 

[deytookerjaabs]

I wonder if there's a persisting philosophy that if you take these high draft stock kids and gift them 200+ NHL games that when they hit 24-28 they'll automatically have a wonderful peak regardless.

 

[tellermine]

Hi!
To me it seen Alex and Jesse Puljujärvi gave some things common.
They both seem to miss that inner drive. They enjoy taking easy, they love to have fun in ice. Seems NHL is not fun to them and that drops drive even lover.
Though Alex have better tools, Sadly his toolbox is at same junkyard as Jesses.

 

[Esq]

Unfortunately Alex will always be measured against the value of what we gave up in the trade. He's an NHL caliber winger if utilized correctly -- no question about that -- but did we need to give up on Joker to get him?

 

[Muffinalt]

Unfortunately Alex will always be measured against the value of what we gave up in the trade. He's an NHL caliber winger if utilized correctly -- no question about that -- but did we need to give up on Joker to get him?

He will be forever compared to an inflated evaltuation of Jokiharju.*

There is a reason these two went for each other.