Player Discussion Alex Newhook

[Playmaker09]

He's going to make a lot of posters here look foolish next season. He'll be a solid 2nd line winger.

And? Why is a 5'10 2nd line winger worth giving up valuable assets for?

Zuccarello, Perron, Zucker, Johansson were all cheap FA.
FLA had to pay Vegas to take Marchessault. Ditto McCann from the Leafs/Pens. Eberle let go for free also (who the hell did NYI even protect up front?).
Vegas had to pay us to take Tatar and Dadonov, they were negative assets.
Granlund, Rakell, Arvidsson and Burakovsky cost a late 2nd. Bjorkstrand even less.

You could throw a rock in the free agent pool every offseason and accidentally hit one of these guys. The supply is way way way more than the demand. Why trade essentially two late firsts for this type of player?

Vancouver is willing to pay teams to take Garland off their hands right now. What does Newhook do better?

Newhook needs to become a 70+ point player for this trade to not be a total waste.

 

[ZUKI]

No, he screwed up. It wasn't Romanov AND a 13th, it was Romanov and the 98th, which got us the 13th, and then the 13th and 65th, which got us. You can eliminate the 13th as it was in and out.

Sorry sir, But Adam Michaels is a very respected persona grata member of this site.
Even when you are right , you don't show it, and never you should use inappropriate words as " he screwed up " .

-Samantha Queen, directrice of Adams Fans Club

 

[ZUKI]

Newhook needs to become a 70+ point player for this trade to not be a total waste.

70 points ?

come on, we gave a late first and a second to get that punk, he needs to become a 140 + points

 

[le_sean]

Newhook needs to become a 70+ point player for this trade to not be a total waste.

LOL. What a terrible take. He already has more career points than Jacob De La Rose, Sebastian Collberg, Nikita Scherbak and Michael McCarron have combined. You know, the type of garbage we tend to take in the late 1st and early 2nd.

 

[Playmaker09]

LOL. What a terrible take. He already has more career points than Jacob De La Rose, Sebastian Collberg, Nikita Scherbak and Michael McCarron have combined. You know, the type of garbage we tend to take in the late 1st and early 2nd.

Since we also took KK and Galchenyuk with the 3rd overall pick, next time we get one we should just trade it for a solid 3rd liner. We'd be better off!

By your logic we might as well trade every pick that we own outside of the top 20. Just never make another pick again. If they're so unlikely to pan out why use them? Flip them all for players.

Small middle six forwards hold no value across the league. Not in trades, not in FA. You can do all the mental gymnastics you want to justify it, but the success of this trade solely hinges on Hughes/St Louis being the misfit whisperers and Newhook breaking out into a legitimate core player.

 

[NobleSix]

Newhook needs to become a 70+ point player for this trade to not be a total waste.

Lol

Yeah, okay man.

 

[Jaynki]

And? Why is a 5'10 2nd line winger worth giving up valuable assets for?

Zuccarello, Perron, Zucker, Johansson were all cheap FA.
FLA had to pay Vegas to take Marchessault. Ditto McCann from the Leafs/Pens. Eberle let go for free also (who the hell did NYI even protect up front?).
Vegas had to pay us to take Tatar and Dadonov, they were negative assets.
Granlund, Rakell, Arvidsson and Burakovsky cost a late 2nd. Bjorkstrand even less.

You could throw a rock in the free agent pool every offseason and accidentally hit one of these guys. The supply is way way way more than the demand. Why trade essentially two late firsts for this type of player?

Vancouver is willing to pay teams to take Garland off their hands right now. What does Newhook do better?

And? Why is a 5'10 2nd line winger worth giving up valuable assets for?

Zuccarello, Perron, Zucker, Johansson were all cheap FA.
FLA had to pay Vegas to take Marchessault. Ditto McCann from the Leafs/Pens. Eberle let go for free also (who the hell did NYI even protect up front?).
Vegas had to pay us to take Tatar and Dadonov, they were negative assets.
Granlund, Rakell, Arvidsson and Burakovsky cost a late 2nd. Bjorkstrand even less.

You could throw a rock in the free agent pool every offseason and accidentally hit one of these guys. The supply is way way way more than the demand. Why trade essentially two late firsts for this type of player?

Vancouver is willing to pay teams to take Garland off their hands right now. What does Newhook do better?

Newhook needs to become a 70+ point player for this trade to not be a total waste.

I think the expectations are for Newhook to be a good top six contributor.

Ultimately, most of the players you named were somewhat relatively highly valued at 22 years old on their first contract post ELC. Of course, unless Newhook becomes a 70 points+ player, he is probably a player who will end up as a "cheap UFA" or simply a common, easily available 5'10 2nd line winger when approaching 30YO.

It serves no purpose to label the pick we gave as "two late 1st" or "two early 2nd". Those are nothing more than label to comfort the critical point of view or the defensive point of view.

What we actually gave is "two lottery tickets" that each give ~30% chance of getting a player that will play 100 games.

Concerning those two lottery tickets, i would also argue that the supply is way way way more than the demand.

The jury is still out and its time for Newhook to prove his worth.

 

[Playmaker09]

Lol

Yeah, okay man.

Would you trade a 1st and 2nd for Drouin of 4 years ago? Or Hoffman?

What does Newhook bring to the table other than points? And if he's only putting up 55 how is he different from the losers above?

Like we're finally starting to get away from these useless, one-dimensional, players that we couldn't even find a taker for on the trade market, and we go and spend a 1st and 2nd on another one to replace them.

If you're only going to have one dimension, it better be f***ing good.

 

[Jaynki]

Small middle six forwards hold no value across the league. Not in trades, not in FA. You can do all the mental gymnastics you want to justify it, but the success of this trade solely hinges on Hughes/St Louis being the misfit whisperers and Newhook breaking out into a legitimate core player.

It depends body. Its not black or white like you state it.

A 22YO coming out of ELC will be way more valuable than a 30YO UFA. Context matter although its true that its an asset that generally don't age well.

 

[Playmaker09]

It depends body. Its not black or white like you state it.

A 22YO coming out of ELC will be way more valuable than a 30YO UFA. Context matter although its true that its an asset that generally don't age well.

So you sign Zucker for 4 years. Then when that's up, you sign another for 4 years. Then another.

How many different versions of Pascal Dupuis and Bill Guerin did Pittsburgh go through in the past 15 years?

These are not the types of players you need to pay a premium to lock in from 22 y/o. It's breakout or a waste of assets.

 

[le_sean]

Since we also took KK and Galchenyuk with the 3rd overall pick, next time we get one we should just trade it for a solid 3rd liner. We'd be better off!

By your logic we might as well trade every pick that we own outside of the top 20. Just never make another pick again. If they're so unlikely to pan out why use them? Flip them all for players.

Small middle six forwards hold no value across the league. Not in trades, not in FA. You can do all the mental gymnastics you want to justify it, but the success of this trade solely hinges on Hughes/St Louis being the misfit whisperers and Newhook breaking out into a legitimate core player.

Yeah I’d trade them for young players with high upside that have already produced at the NHL level. Why not? Nothing to do with the 3rd overall pick, that argument makes no sense since the risk/reward is completely different.

Does Suzuki not have value across the league? Because they are the same size.

 

[domiwroze]

Newhook needs to become a 70+ point player for this trade to not be a total waste.

 

[Playmaker09]

Yeah I’d trade them for young players with high upside that have already produced at the NHL level. Why not? Nothing to do with the 3rd overall pick, that argument makes no sense since the risk/reward is completely different.

Does Suzuki not have value across the league? Because they are the same size.

Suzuki's an inch taller, almost 20 lbs heavier, and we traded for him at 19 years old.
That's like me saying Newhook is the same size as Farrell.

Newhook couldn't hang in a great organization with a history of developing talent, on a cup winning team so insanely desperate for a 2nd line C that they'd probably have taken any warm body to fill the void left by Kadri.

Why exactly do you think Joe Sakic, one of the best GMs in the league with a team ready to win NOW wanted two draft picks for a young legitimate NHLer in Newhook? If they traded him for an established vet I'd understand. But for picks?

 

[le_sean]

Suzuki's an inch taller, almost 20 lbs heavier, and we traded for him at 19 years old.
That's like me saying Newhook is the same size as Farrell.

Newhook couldn't hang in a great organization with a history of developing talent, on a cup winning team so insanely desperate for a 2nd line C that they'd probably have taken any warm body to fill the void left by Kadri.

Why exactly do you think Joe Sakic, one of the best GMs in the league with a team ready to win NOW wanted two draft picks for a young legitimate NHLer in Newhook? If they traded him for an established vet I'd understand. But for picks?

A whole inch? Holy f***. I didn’t realize that the difference was that huge. Poor Newhook and his future neck surgery having to look up just to speak to his captain.

The team wanting to win now traded a player that still needs to develop. What a surprise.

 

[Playmaker09]

A whole inch? Holy f***. I didn’t realize that the difference was that huge. Poor Newhook and his future neck surgery having to look up just to speak to his captain.

Suzuki's much heavier, can battle, play through contact, and is solid defensively.

Newhook is none of those things, which is why a smart organization in Colorado capitalized on his value while they could.

 

[Heffyhoof]

Newhook needs to become a 70+ point player for this trade to not be a total waste.

Not to knock Suzuki, as I think he's only getting better, but he's currently a 66 point player. Not 'pace', actually 66 in 82. Would you consider Suzuki worth around the 31st and 37th? He's likely got 70+ potential, so I suppose it wouldn't be a total waste.

 

[Playmaker09]

Not to knock Suzuki, as I think he's only getting better, but he's currently a 66 point player. Not 'pace', actually 66 in 82. Would you consider Suzuki worth around the 31st and 37th? He's likely got 70+ potential, so I suppose it wouldn't be a total waste.

Suzuki's a legit top 6 C, playoff proven, defensively responsible, physically strong in possession and cycle. He doesn't NEED to hit 70 to bring value, though I think he should.

Again, if Newhook only brings 55 points, what makes him different than Drouin or Hoffman? Would you trade a 1st and 2nd for that type of player?
He's a one-dimensional scorer off the rush.

 

[le_sean]

Why exactly do you think Joe Sakic, one of the best GMs in the league with a team ready to win NOW wanted two draft picks for a young legitimate NHLer in Newhook? If they traded him for an established vet I'd understand. But for picks?

First of all, Sakic isn’t their GM

Second, this organization also keeps bringing back Jack Johnson and just gave Miles Wood 6 years. Really brilliant.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Suzuki's much heavier, can battle, play through contact, and is solid defensively.

Newhook is none of those things, which is why a smart organization in Colorado capitalized on his value while they could.

Garbage. Suzuki is maybe 10 lb heavier.

 

[CHwest]

Suzuki's an inch taller, almost 20 lbs heavier, and we traded for him at 19 years old.
That's like me saying Newhook is the same size as Farrell.

Newhook couldn't hang in a great organization with a history of developing talent, on a cup winning team so insanely desperate for a 2nd line C that they'd probably have taken any warm body to fill the void left by Kadri.

Why exactly do you think Joe Sakic, one of the best GMs in the league with a team ready to win NOW wanted two draft picks for a young legitimate NHLer in Newhook? If they traded him for an established vet I'd understand. But for picks?

Some your argument is, he must suck if the almighty Sakic didn't value him? Maybe Sakic understood he would not realize his potential in Colorado and decide to do him a solid and move him.

 

[Playmaker09]

First of all, Sakic isn’t their GM

Second, this organization also keeps bringing back Jack Johnson and just gave Miles Wood 6 years. Really brilliant.

Regardless, they wouldn't be giving up on Newhook without Sakic and Bednar's input. They didn't make a hockey trade for an established player, they dumped him for picks.

Wood's a serviceable 3rd liner with size and speed. That contract will never hurt when the cap goes up.

Garbage. Suzuki is maybe 10 lb heavier.

208 vs 190. Suzuki's a tank.

 

[26Mats]

Suzuki's an inch taller, almost 20 lbs heavier, and we traded for him at 19 years old.
That's like me saying Newhook is the same size as Farrell.

Newhook couldn't hang in a great organization with a history of developing talent, on a cup winning team so insanely desperate for a 2nd line C that they'd probably have taken any warm body to fill the void left by Kadri.

Why exactly do you think Joe Sakic, one of the best GMs in the league with a team ready to win NOW wanted two draft picks for a young legitimate NHLer in Newhook? If they traded him for an established vet I'd understand. But for picks?

The biggest reason I think Newhook may turn out to be good is because Hughes traded for him (after finding Dach and Matheson).

The biggest reason I think Newhook might turn out to be meh is Sakic threw in the towel on him.

We'll see which GM got this one right in due time...

 

[Playmaker09]

Some your argument is, he must suck if the almighty Sakic didn't value him? Maybe Sakic understood he would not realize his potential in Colorado and decide to do him a solid and move him.

Why not? It's not like anyone was blocking him?

He lost the 2C role to JT Compher of all people, and despite all their injuries still couldn't crack the top 6 on the wing.

And why not trade him for a vet who could help instead of picks?

They saw the best value they were ever going to get for him and decided to pull the trigger.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Would you trade a 1st and 2nd for Drouin of 4 years ago? Or Hoffman?

What does Newhook bring to the table other than points? And if he's only putting up 55 how is he different from the losers above?

Like we're finally starting to get away from these useless, one-dimensional, players that we couldn't even find a taker for on the trade market, and we go and spend a 1st and 2nd on another one to replace them.

If you're only going to have one dimension, it better be f***ing good.

Your evaluation of Newhook is shaped by your narrative. You summarize him as a small second line winger but leave out the fact that his speed is elite and he is exceptionally strong for his size, He is not what I would describe as small either as he was measured at the combine in 2019 at 5'10.5" and 192 lbs. Most players round up their height once they get to within half an inch, apparently he doesn't care to. There is a very good chance that he is closer to 5'11" 200lbs at this point which is not a big player but hardly what would be considered small either. Rounding up of course doesn't make him bigger just like rounding him down doesn't make him smaller.

Yot are comparing apples and oranges by using UFA vets on the backend of their careers as comparables to a 22 year old talented speedster looking to blossom. There is a good reason that those vets are cheap, because they can fall off a cliff at any moment and nobody wants to invest in them. There is a good chance that Newhook will be exactly that in his 30+ years but that isn't who Hughes acquired is it?

 

[le_sean]

I was on board with Dach from day one.

He was a 6'4 20 y/o with unquestionably high-end vision and quality two-way play.

He brings value to the team regardless.

What does size have to do with anything? Dach is 6’3 and throws just as many hits as Newhook does. There’s no advantage other than reach. He produced less, had a bum wrist and we gave up more to get him. So how can you be in full favour of one and not the other? It’s ridiculous.