Alex Edler - Part II

[Raincouver]

Who said he is having a phenomenal season? Me? you? No one here is saying he is having a phenomenal season.

I think you're over-reacting to things that haven't even been said.

If +/- is so reliable then explain to me why Ryan Kesler, our defensive god is -13? That is 2nd worst on the team.

Completely different player, different position.

Trust me, i'm not alone in my Edler criticism in terms of people who watch hockey. Just on this fanboy section of this site.

 

[tc 23]

No one's saying Edler's having a good season. They're just saying that his +/- is misleading and he's suffering from a lot of bad luck. Obviously him, and the rest of the team, need to be better next year if they want to have a competitive team.

 

[leftwinglockdown]

Completely different player, different position.

Trust me, i'm not alone in my Edler criticism in terms of people who watch hockey. Just on this fanboy section of this site.

Last I checked, the rest of us watched the games too. Who are the fanboys? That is such a cop-out.

Who says there aren't people who don't criticize him in here? Only you are saying that.

We know his shortcomings as a player and we also know when something is his fault and when something isn't. When he makes a glaring mistake, that's on him but +/- is not a reliable way of determining that at all.

You seem pretty polarized in your view of Edler. The rest of us here are taking a more even-handed approach.

 

[Raincouver]

Last I checked, the rest of us watched the games too. Who are the fanboys? That is such a cop-out.

Who says there aren't people who don't criticize him in here? Only you are saying that.

We know his shortcomings as a player and we also know when something is his fault and when something isn't. When he makes a glaring mistake, that's on him but +/- is not a reliable way of determining that at all.

You seem pretty polarized in your view of Edler. The rest of us here are taking a more even-handed approach.

Yes I think that signing him to that deal was a grave mistake. Edler in my opinion took great strides under Rick Bowness, but his game has fizzled. He doesn't have the instincts defensively that Sami Salo had.

I was an Edler fan at one point but his game has regressed. I'm old enough to remember Bryan McCabe.

 

[arttk]

Completely different player, different position.

Trust me, i'm not alone in my Edler criticism in terms of people who watch hockey. Just on this fanboy section of this site.

No ****, 30% of every game thread is about how Edler is having a bad game. I don't know how we can criticize him more. Do you want a dedicated "Edler sucks" thread?

 

[leftwinglockdown]

Yes I think that signing him to that deal was a grave mistake. Edler in my opinion took great strides under Rick Bowness, but his game has fizzled. He doesn't have the instincts defensively that Sami Salo had.

I was an Edler fan at one point but his game has regressed. I'm old enough to remember Bryan McCabe.

And some of us don't think it was a grave mistake. You might see advanced stats as some sort of excuse but some of us see it as more information that improves our understanding of hockey outside of just watching the games or the eye-test as some call it.

His underlying numbers are fine and gives some of us the opinion that he is not as bad as some make him out to be.

I also think that Hamhuis will eventually take that step back soon given his age and someone has to be there to lead the defense. Garrison has proven this year to be the worst of the higher paid defense and Bieksa will always be high-risk, high-reward and not to mention his age. Stanton and Tanev have shown that they haven't been able to play through a full season of increased ice-time without injuries and Corrado is definitely not ready.

We have no other cornerstone to build around and whether you like him or not, no one else in the system brings his all-around package and this defense will hurt more without someone like that.

No ****, 30% of every game thread is about how Edler is having a bad game. I don't know how we can criticize him more. Do you want a dedicated "Edler sucks" thread?

Because "Player Discussion" means fanboy thread right?

 

[Verviticus]

You're right. Despite his -29 Alex Edler is having a phenomenal season.

That stat is misleading and he is completely dominant out there on both ends of the ice.

you're being intellectually dishonest or you actually believe someone made this argument, and either way doesn't look good on you at all

 

[pahlsson]

you're being intellectually dishonest or you actually believe someone made this argument, and either way doesn't look good on you at all

"oops i'm losing an argument, time for a strawman"

 

[TheWanderer]

you're being intellectually dishonest or you actually believe someone made this argument, and either way doesn't look good on you at all

Maybe he has an imaginary friend.

... sometimes I think edler sees an imaginary forechecker whenever he has the puck.

 

[Raincouver]

And some of us don't think it was a grave mistake. You might see advanced stats as some sort of excuse but some of us see it as more information that improves our understanding of hockey outside of just watching the games or the eye-test as some call it.

His underlying numbers are fine and gives some of us the opinion that he is not as bad as some make him out to be.

I also think that Hamhuis will eventually take that step back soon given his age and someone has to be there to lead the defense. Garrison has proven this year to be the worst of the higher paid defense and Bieksa will always be high-risk, high-reward and not to mention his age. Stanton and Tanev have shown that they haven't been able to play through a full season of increased ice-time without injuries and Corrado is definitely not ready.

We have no other cornerstone to build around and whether you like him or not, no one else in the system brings his all-around package and this defense will hurt more without someone like that.



Because "Player Discussion" means fanboy thread right?

I agree with this.

The Canucks do not have a legit #1 D-man.

If Edler is the guy, then we might as well get Devan Dubnyk to play goal.

I think he can be a solid 2 pairing guy one day. But he ain't ready for prime time.

 

[Win One Before I Die]

Use the buyout on Edler, not Booth.

 

[tc 23]

Use the buyout on Edler, not Booth.

That's absurd and also not possible.

 

[Raincouver]

Use the buyout on Edler, not Booth.

LOL. Unlike Booth Edler has trade value.

And let's hope other GM's are like Canuck fans and ignore the fact that the Canucks had their best month when he was gone.

 

[BassMason]

I think a very large amount of players on this team are having trouble learning how to thrive under Tort's system. It takes time. I am not very happy with Edler's play this season but with a summer off to digest the changes and not to mention the suspensions, I think we see a new better than ever Edler next year.

 

[leftwinglockdown]

I agree with this.

The Canucks do not have a legit #1 D-man.

If Edler is the guy, then we might as well get Devan Dubnyk to play goal.

I think he can be a solid 2 pairing guy one day. But he ain't ready for prime time.

IMO, he already is a 2nd pairing guy and will become a solid (not elite) #1 option with a committee type defense like we currently have but let's play your game.

If we look at how his contract is structured, while the cap hit is 5m, he only makes 3.25m this year and 4.25m the next. He makes 6m for the 3 years after that and the last year is 4.5m.

Looks like management expects him to get better and his prime years being when he's aged 30-33. That might fit your description of "not ready for prime time."

LOL. Unlike Booth Edler has trade value.

And let's hope other GM's are like Canuck fans and ignore the fact that the Canucks had their best month when he was gone.

They're also winning more games right now without Kesler in the lineup. Maybe Kesler is also a problem or are you going to defend that with how Kesler is a "completely different player, different position"-type argument.

 

[me2]

Use the buyout on Edler, not Booth.

Canucks can't buy out Edler. Waiver rules prohibit it.


(he'd never clear waivers)

 

[Raincouver]

IMO, he already is a 2nd pairing guy and will become a solid (not elite) #1 option with a committee type defense like we currently have but let's play your game.

If we look at how his contract is structured, while the cap hit is 5m, he only makes 3.25m this year and 4.25m the next. He makes 6m for the 3 years after that and the last year is 4.5m.

Looks like management expects him to get better and his prime years being when he's aged 30-33. That might fit your description of "not ready for prime time."



They're also winning more games right now without Kesler in the lineup. Maybe Kesler is also a problem or are you going to defend that with how Kesler is a "completely different player, different position"-type argument.

You wanna compare Edler to a centre go right ahead. Compare him to a goalie to to make him look better.

I see no evidence of Edler becoming a legit #1 defenceman based on the fact that he is obviously regressing.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Yes I think that signing him to that deal was a grave mistake. Edler in my opinion took great strides under Rick Bowness, but his game has fizzled. He doesn't have the instincts defensively that Sami Salo had.

I was an Edler fan at one point but his game has regressed. I'm old enough to remember Bryan McCabe.

So what was your previous user name?

 

[Addison Rae]

The basis of this guy argument is +/- and the Canucks record without Edler, why even respond to him? Anyone who actually believe +/- is a telling or even somewhat relevant of a stat shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[bo2shink*]

I see no evidence of Edler becoming a legit #1 defenceman based on the fact that he is obviously regressing.

That's rather general. I don't think anyone feels he's looked good this year, not sure why you are so deadset on embarrassing yourself with hyperbole and nonsense. He has been terribly frustrating to watch this year but to think that means he is done is ridiculous.

 

[deckercky]

You wanna compare Edler to a centre go right ahead. Compare him to a goalie to to make him look better.

I see no evidence of Edler becoming a legit #1 defenceman based on the fact that he is obviously regressing.

I don't think I've seen anyone on this site call him a #1 defenceman since Torts tried him at 30 min per game. He is what he is, but when used in a role he works for, he's a net benefit. He's a good player having a rough season, like Burrows, Henrik and countless others have been this year. You have to let those players play out of their slumps sometimes.

 

[Proto]

I don't know about all you kow-towing, carpet-bagging, $*&#-eating fans, but this independent thinker right here -- yeah, that's me I'm talking about -- doesn't think Edler is a Hall of Famer. I'm my own man with my own opinions, and think you fans fawning over Alex Edler and cross-stitching his likeness into your decorative pillows are a bunch of plebes!

 

[deckercky]

I don't know about all you kow-towing, carpet-bagging, $*&#-eating fans, but this independent thinker right here -- yeah, that's me I'm talking about -- doesn't think Edler is a Hall of Famer. I'm my own man with my own opinions, and think you fans fawning over Alex Edler and cross-stitching his likeness into your decorative pillows are a bunch of plebes!

But I was going to do an Alex Edler throw pillow kickstarter...I've invested my life savings into the project knowing that he was the greatest player on the planet, and will likely outscore the entire Pittsburgh Penguins roster over the next 5 years.

 

[Raincouver]

I don't think I've seen anyone on this site call him a #1 defenceman since Torts tried him at 30 min per game. He is what he is, but when used in a role he works for, he's a net benefit. He's a good player having a rough season, like Burrows, Henrik and countless others have been this year. You have to let those players play out of their slumps sometimes.

If all this is...is a slump then its a strange coincidence that all these players are slumping at the same time. I think it might be honest to say MG overvalued his assets and kept a core together who has one playoff win in the past two seasons. I dont think Edler is finished as a player, I think he is capable of better but the rates at which we see "Special EDler" in his decision making should be alarming for an organization who committed to him long term.

 

[deckercky]

If all this is...is a slump then its a strange coincidence that all these players are slumping at the same time. I think it might be honest to say MG overvalued his assets and kept a core together who has one playoff win in the past two seasons. I dont think Edler is finished as a player, I think he is capable of better but the rates at which we see "Special EDler" in his decision making should be alarming for an organization who committed to him long term.

Special Ed was Jovonovski's nickname. No adopting it for Edler.