Alex Burmistrov (Part II)

[portamoral]

i knew burmi would bounce back after the horrendous start. he's simply too skilled and too good to be playing like he was for the rest of the season. i knew once he started shooting and using his line mates more effectively and stopped trying to do too much with the puck when nothing is available, he'd be better off. It's crazy how low his IQ in the O zone looked for a while and now he looks really smart and dangerous out there. guys with that amount of skill just need to adjust cause they can pretty much play any type of game they allow themselves to.

He's a solid middle 6'er when playing like this, and at least serviceable in the bottom 6 at worst. i'd like to see him with the jets long term. burmi's bake boys and it feels good

 

[Sixty Minute Man]

Burmistrov, at the start of the season, appeared to be playing as if he had more ice, more space. In the KHL he did. I think adjusting to the difference in rink has to be a factor.

I've always had the opinion that he seemed to be really coachable, but required a more patient, softer touch. Perhaps Maurice should be given some credit for helping Burmi figure it out.

 

[pucka lucka]

Burmistrov, at the start of the season appeared to be playing as if he had more ice, more space. In the KHL he did. I think adjusting to the difference in rink has to be a factor.

I've always had the opinion that he seemed to be really coachable, but required a more patient, softer touch. Perhaps Maurice should be given some credit for helping Burmi figure it out.

He was playing a very Russian style, it requires your linemates to do the same. He was painting himself into a corner all the time. He seems to have adjusted.

 

[Skidooboy]

if Burmi is good why in the world did we trade Tim Stapleton?

Sorry. Pass on Tim Stapleton

 

[garret9]

if Burmi is good why in the world did we trade Tim Stapleton?

Sorry. Pass on Tim Stapleton

What kind of point are you trying to make?
Are you trying to say Burmistrov is the same as Tim Stapleton?

Tim Stapleton actually did score, and score impressively, in the NHL relative to his icetime. His problem areas was all the areas Burmistrov did well in. Stapleton was poor defensively and couldn't be trusted on the PK but could score especially on the power play.

You couldn't really have picked a more opposite Jet than Stapleton to compare.

If you want to make an argument for your case, you should probably start with making better comparisons.

If you want the closest comparison it's actually probably Adam Lowry.

 

[Duke749]

Who knew Don Cherry was a Jets fan.

 

[puck stoppa]

What kind of point are you trying to make?
Are you trying to say Burmistrov is the same as Tim Stapleton?

Tim Stapleton actually did score, and score impressively, in the NHL relative to his icetime. His problem areas was all the areas Burmistrov did well in. Stapleton was poor defensively and couldn't be trusted on the PK but could score especially on the power play.

You couldn't really have picked a more opposite Jet than Stapleton to compare.

If you want to make an argument for your case, you should probably start with making better comparisons.

If you want the closest comparison it's actually probably Adam Lowry.

Maybe the Stapler comparison came from KHL? I have always liked Burmi, not sure why he can't be depth guy on a deep team, he can move up and down and is great on the PK. I really tend to think a bottom six of this can give us depth and guys can move up and down based on performance.

Ehlers Scheif Wheeler
Connor Little Staff
Armia MP Dano
Lowry Copp Burmi

Id almost prefer Burmi and Dano swapped there and I think we may have a winner.

 

[Skidooboy]

What kind of point are you trying to make?
Are you trying to say Burmistrov is the same as Tim Stapleton?

Tim Stapleton actually did score, and score impressively, in the NHL relative to his icetime. His problem areas was all the areas Burmistrov did well in. Stapleton was poor defensively and couldn't be trusted on the PK but could score especially on the power play.

You couldn't really have picked a more opposite Jet than Stapleton to compare.

If you want to make an argument for your case, you should probably start with making better comparisons.

If you want the closest comparison it's actually probably Adam Lowry.

Burmi and Stapes had very similar KHL numbers. At the same time on the same team.
In similar roles.

That's my point.


Lowry is in his second year. Comparing him to a 5yr NHL player with 2yrs KHL adds on is a bit of a red herring don't you think?

Again Burmi isn't a prospect, he isn't a rookie, he's a vet. And not very good.

I said at the beginning of the year if he played well at the money he was getting is be happy. Well he hasn't played well except for a recent run in meaningless games.

Experiment over. Time to cut loses.

But no, people want to see how he is next year, give him more time to adapt, blah blah blah.

He's a bust.


Next year we have most likely a top three and at least 1 moose pushing for spots, why should we give ice time and cap space to keep developing this guy when he really doesn't do anything that we can't find someone else to do cheaper?

 

[puck stoppa]

Burmi and Stapes had very similar KHL numbers. At the same time on the same team.
In similar roles.

That's my point.


Lowry is in his second year. Comparing him to a 5yr NHL player with 2yrs KHL adds on is a bit of a red herring don't you think?

Again Burmi isn't a prospect, he isn't a rookie, he's a vet. And not very good.

I said at the beginning of the year if he played well at the money he was getting is be happy. Well he hasn't played well except for a recent run in meaningless games.

Experiment over. Time to cut loses.

But no, people want to see how he is next year, give him more time to adapt, blah blah blah.

He's a bust.


Next year we have most likely a top three and at least 1 moose pushing for spots, why should we give ice time and cap space to keep developing this guy when he really doesn't do anything that we can't find someone else to do cheaper?

Most will agree Burmi has had a rough year. But would we not rather have him on the fourth line so we could finally push Thor and Peluso off the roster. Wouldn't you want those guys off first? Burmi can at least play big minutes, kill penalties and can actually possess the puck. Thor could stick around at 13 if they want a fighter.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

No!

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!

Continue to stink and then just fade away.

We were a better team without him, we will be a better team without him again.

I don't car what the stats say.

were still hoping for this kid, he's not some 19yr old rookie. I have no desire to develop him anymore. he isn't what we need him to be he has never been what we need him to be.


go away. take your "glimpses" with you.

it'll be the same next year. another busted season with "glimpse" of what he could be.


NO NO NO NOPE NEVER NO

????????
He's playing like a good 3C. That pushes Lowry down to the 4th line. If Lowry can play his way back up, so much the better. It allows Perreault to stay at LW where he is outstanding.

This is not a glimpse. It has been consistent for quite a while now. He has finally got it. How you can fail to be happy with that is beyond me.

 

[Skidooboy]

Most will agree Burmi has had a rough year. But would we not rather have him on the fourth line so we could finally push Thor and Peluso off the roster. Wouldn't you want those guys off first? Burmi can at least play big minutes, kill penalties and can actually possess the puck. Thor could stick around at 13 if they want a fighter.

Why not get rid of them all?
I have yet to see a single reason to Keep any of them.

But Burmi thread so I'm talking about Burmi.

 

[Duke749]

I don't understand the hate towards Burmi. Makes no sense to me that he is being singled out.

 

[Atoyot]

Burmi and Stapes had very similar KHL numbers. At the same time on the same team.
In similar roles.

That's my point.


Lowry is in his second year. Comparing him to a 5yr NHL player with 2yrs KHL adds on is a bit of a red herring don't you think?

Again Burmi isn't a prospect, he isn't a rookie, he's a vet. And not very good.

I said at the beginning of the year if he played well at the money he was getting is be happy. Well he hasn't played well except for a recent run in meaningless games.

Experiment over. Time to cut loses.

But no, people want to see how he is next year, give him more time to adapt, blah blah blah.

He's a bust.


Next year we have most likely a top three and at least 1 moose pushing for spots, why should we give ice time and cap space to keep developing this guy when he really doesn't do anything that we can't find someone else to do cheaper?

I always find high draft picks who are considered "busts" interesting. They often get compared to their draft position and many hold the belief that if they're not what they were projected to be they are useless, whereas in reality they're often much better suited for lower roles than the players that are drafted to specifically play in those lower roles.

For example, Lowry doesn't get dumped on playing poorly on the third or fourth line, because he's exceeded the expectations of a third round player, whereas Burmi is at worst a very good third liner and he gets pooped on because he's playing below his top 6 expectations from when he was drafted. I'll take the better hockey player regardless of what their expectations were when they were drafted.

 

[sipowicz]

I don't understand the hate towards Burmi. Makes no sense to me that he is being singled out.

7 goals and 11 assists in 71 NHL games this season and this from a guy in his 4th NHL season and 6th year of pro hockey, at the start of next season he turns 25 but you kinda hope he would have figured things out by now!

 

[winnipegger]

Burmi and Stapes had very similar KHL numbers. At the same time on the same team.
In similar roles.

That's my point.


Lowry is in his second year. Comparing him to a 5yr NHL player with 2yrs KHL adds on is a bit of a red herring don't you think?

Again Burmi isn't a prospect, he isn't a rookie, he's a vet. And not very good.

I said at the beginning of the year if he played well at the money he was getting is be happy. Well he hasn't played well except for a recent run in meaningless games.

Experiment over. Time to cut loses.

But no, people want to see how he is next year, give him more time to adapt, blah blah blah.

He's a bust.


Next year we have most likely a top three and at least 1 moose pushing for spots, why should we give ice time and cap space to keep developing this guy when he really doesn't do anything that we can't find someone else to do cheaper?

I would probably agree with you if you were saying this in December, but the facts have changed. And your opinion has stayed the same. What does that say about the way you are arguing?

It's fine to have that opinion, but it's based on emotion and not on data

 

[garret9]

Burmi and Stapes had very similar KHL numbers. At the same time on the same team.
In similar roles.

That's my point.


Lowry is in his second year. Comparing him to a 5yr NHL player with 2yrs KHL adds on is a bit of a red herring don't you think?

Again Burmi isn't a prospect, he isn't a rookie, he's a vet. And not very good.

I said at the beginning of the year if he played well at the money he was getting is be happy. Well he hasn't played well except for a recent run in meaningless games.

Experiment over. Time to cut loses.

But no, people want to see how he is next year, give him more time to adapt, blah blah blah.

He's a bust.


Next year we have most likely a top three and at least 1 moose pushing for spots, why should we give ice time and cap space to keep developing this guy when he really doesn't do anything that we can't find someone else to do cheaper?

Similar point production, not similar role at all. It seems almost as if you don't actually know what was going on in the KHL and are just looking at their point totals... Talk about being a hypocrite with stats comments.

Burmistrov primarily played as a top-match up centre for one of the best teams in the KHL, while scoring okay. Stapleton mostly was used as a scoring winger in soft match ups. This was a hopeful sign of improvement, as Burmi was still unlikely an above average top6 player... but having his outscoring abilities in tilting the ice and scoring like Stapleton is what a perfect 3rd liner would be like.
Stapleton is also was 31 at the time... Burmistrov was 22... but sure Lowry and Burmi were too different...


Age is far, far, far, far, far, far, far (get the point) more important to me than years in the NHL. This is why we see F,D,G all peak at similar ages despite having different entry ages. Their performance was similar at similar ages. Far better comparison still to Stapleton and Burmistrov regardless.

No one is waiting for development. You may be right and this may too pass, but the situation isn't the same as a player spontaneously being good.
People are waiting to see if his recent performance which is ALSO similar to his 2 season performance in the years past will persist.
There should be a completely a different approach when a player ends a season on a 20-30 game highnote when the highnote is more similar than performance in the past than when it is not.

But please, continue.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

People are waiting to see if his recent performance which is ALSO similar to his 2 season performance in the years past will persist.
There should be a completely a different approach when a player ends a season on a 20-30 game highnote when the highnote is more similar than performance in the past than when it is not.

This is it for me in a nutshell - small sample size, but if his improved play continues then he's going to be a very useful asset with a very low AAV / cap hit. His increased scoring as of late is also a pleasant surprise, as that wasn't something I was expecting upon his return from the K.

I kinda like it when our players do well after suffering from some issues in their play.

 

[garret9]

7 goals and 11 assists in 71 NHL games this season and this from a guy in his 4th NHL season and 6th year of pro hockey, at the start of next season he turns 25 but you kinda hope he would have figured things out by now!

But Sip, are their bonafide NHL players who score less? Will there always be NHL players who score less?

 

[surixon]

Burmie rebounding into form is nothing but good news for this team. He gives the team another strong middle 6 possession player that is great on the PK. Even if he stays in the 25-35 point range he is still a quality asset. At $1.5 million why wouldn't you bring him back and make him and Perrault the focal point of a strong third line depending on how Conner looks.

 

[sipowicz]

But Sip, are their bonafide NHL players who score less? Will there always be NHL players who score less?

Yes, you are correct, but you don't put a guy who can't produce on any line but the 3rd or 4th. The fact that Burmi seems to be rounding into a pretty good PK'er helps.

 

[csk]

Yes, you are correct, but you don't put a guy who can't produce on any line but the 3rd or 4th. The fact that Burmi seems to be rounding into a pretty good PK'er helps.

Were people advocating more? Every lineup I've seen for next season has him on the 3rd, 4th or gone

 

[garret9]

Yes, you are correct, but you don't put a guy who can't produce on any line but the 3rd or 4th. The fact that Burmi seems to be rounding into a pretty good PK'er helps.

Depends... I mean optimally if he produces at a 1.0 p/60 clip (like Burmi has averaged this season), you don't want him higher than your 3rd line and only that high if he provides alternative value (like Burmi used to and has recently)...

That said, Burmi for past while has been scoring at a 1.7 clip which is just about 2nd line average... if it doesn't last, no.

Now there are players who play big minutes (top 100 in 5v5 TOI/GP) and have scoring below third line average rates (1.5):
ROR - 1.4
E. Staal - 1.3
Zetterberg - 1.2
Kadri - 1.2
Turris - 1.3
Parise - 1.3
Backes - 1.3
Lindholm - 1.1
Kesler - 1.2
Foligno - 1.3
Boedker - 1.2
Zajac - 1.2
Bailey - 1.2
J. Staal - 1.3
Strome - 1.4
Filppula - 1.0
Brouwer - 1.3
Silfverberg - 1.2
Comeau - 1.2

Let's be fair though 1) most (but not all) of these guys are in scoring ruts this year 2) I don't expect Burmi to have the impact some of these players have. Still, just want to point out sometimes top-six players aren't scoring.

Of course, everyone is talking about Burmi hopefully/potentially being a good 3rd line player... No one is discussing anything more.

 

[Skidooboy]

But Sip, are their bonafide NHL players who score less? Will there always be NHL players who score less?

another excuse.

This is my point. Good teams don't keep guys like that around.
If your third line c can't break 10 goals a season your stuck in the basement.

It's this kid sixth pro year and we're still talking about him needing time to adjust and develop. Why? Why should I care?

And we're still talking about his difficulty transferring from "" the Russian game. Pinerrin doesn't seem to have such issues. So why is it every time someone mentions Burmistrov were talking about adjustment and the difficulties of adapting to the North American game and well he needs to develop?

It seems to me that he is a difficult personality that is at best a third line centre who underperforms in the NHL

 

[Gm0ney]

I dunno. Just from the eye test, I like a lot of what Burmi does. Even when he was struggling earlier in the season. He's hard on the puck, good along the boards, back checks, good skater, kills penalties, quite physical despite not being physically imposing himself. And his skill is apparent. His decision making is really strange sometimes, but he's not a bad hockey player. Maybe some people get that knee jerk revulsion to his game like I get when I watch Stu. But to my eye, he's quite fun to watch and he's a useful player to have on the team.

 

[sipowicz]

another excuse.

This is my point. Good teams don't keep guys like that around.
If your third line c can't break 10 goals a season your stuck in the basement.

It's this kid sixth pro year and we're still talking about him needing time to adjust and develop. Why? Why should I care?

And we're still talking about his difficulty transferring from "" the Russian game. Pinerrin doesn't seem to have such issues. So why is it every time someone mentions Burmistrov were talking about adjustment and the difficulties of adapting to the North American game and well he needs to develop?

It seems to me that he is a difficult personality that is at best a third line centre who underperforms in the NHL

Even Jim Slater had a respectable 13 goals as 4C in the Jets 2.0 inaugural season!

I'm with you on Burmi, if he can't produce with 3C minutes you need to replace him, what's lost on many is that the Jets record is because of players like Burmi, Lowry, Copp, Thorbun etc. on the roster and not despite the fact they are on the roster. There were periods of the early and mid season where Burmi just didn't seem engaged.