Alex Burmistrov (Part II)

[Skidooboy]

Because he isn't a well producing offensive player. Nobody said he was. You obviously can't compare him to Frolik in those aspects of the game as Fro mostly played with Ladd and Little when he was a Jet.

Burmistrov always had very meh offensive linemates. Everyone on the Thrashers was very meh offensively in his two seasons with them. When he was a Jet, Noel buried him behind Jokinen who wasn't producing much better (which rightfully pissed him off) and had bad possession stats on top of it.

Why do you keep calling for top6 production out of a player we (Burmi believers) keep on calling a good third line option who, with productive linemates, can play well defensively and chip in a decent amount of offensive production RELATIVE to other players in a similar role? He's paid 1.5 M and is mostly given bottom 6 minutes while being very good on the PK. Why not just be happy with those facts? He won't be near the top 6 next season unless he somehow explodes offensively. I am happy with that and don't expect more out of Alex.

You're right, he could have and maybe should have produced more. But he hasn't. That's why he is paid what he is paid and plays the minutes he's playing. He seems to be okay with the role hes given on this roster and people should be, too.

No we shouldn't.
Every expert, every broadcaster, every coach and GM I hear talk about how successful teams roll three or 4 lines. Three at minimum. That's lines that can play in all phases of the game. Defend AND score.
With Burmi being an offensive black hole on our third I don't see this team competing. Maybe as a forth line Press box guy, at even less than we pay him currently I might say yes. But I'd rather play a youngster who pushes for more ice time instead of Burmi skidding deeper and deeper down the depth chart

 

[Snot Rocket]

No we shouldn't.
Every expert, every broadcaster, every coach and GM I hear talk about how successful teams roll three or 4 lines. Three at minimum. That's lines that can play in all phases of the game. Defend AND score.
With Burmi being an offensive black hole on our third I don't see this team competing. Maybe as a forth line Press box guy, at even less than we pay him currently I might say yes. But I'd rather play a youngster who pushes for more ice time instead of Burmi skidding deeper and deeper down the depth chart

Wright was a black hole, Burmi is one more year from the end of the line as a jet.
If he shows no improvement over this year by deadline I suspect he gets dealt.
Kid has had the worst development path imaginable. He would have been served well to learn the pro game and marinate a bit at 18 rather than be thrown to the wolves.
Seems like he is on the right path now, not the Wright path wrong.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

No we shouldn't.
Every expert, every broadcaster, every coach and GM I hear talk about how successful teams roll three or 4 lines. Three at minimum. That's lines that can play in all phases of the game. Defend AND score.
With Burmi being an offensive black hole on our third I don't see this team competing. Maybe as a forth line Press box guy, at even less than we pay him currently I might say yes. But I'd rather play a youngster who pushes for more ice time instead of Burmi skidding deeper and deeper down the depth chart

When those youngsters can force Burmi down to the fourth line or into the pressbox, then we'll be a better team. No argument from me on that one. Until then, he's a useful piece (or at least, has become a useful piece again, towards the end of the season).

And why do you have to keep arguing this? Because people don't fully share your opinion.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Sorry.
there is more too it than just looking at stats.

For instance Kane's most common shot that year was streaking in alone on the wing bounce pass of the boards to himself followed by a shot from above the circles. He did it like 5 six times a night. It rarely if ever resulted in a goal. Monster SOG tho! Burmi on ice?! Wow must be Burmi and Kane with UNREAL skill and chemistry!
Nope.

IF you have monster possession numbers and no points...there is more there than just what the SOG can tell. Something Stinks.

Production does matter, Points matter, Wins Matter.
Burmi doesn't seem to help produce points, or produce wins.

I'm not trying to blame all of the Jets problems on him...but he left, was replaced with players who PRODUCED POINTS, and the Jets had a winning season. He returns, doesn't produce points and now where are we again?

Kovalev in Ottawa. Great skill great possession, lots of time spent playing keep-away no real effect on game outcome. That is what I see in Burmi, night after night after night.

Not trying to blame him but you manage to do it anyway.

He's going to be a very positive asset. Possession, PK and scoring too now that he has started shooting and passing.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I guess I did.

But I cannot help but think that a big reason we let Frolik go was because we thought we had a guy to replace him in the system, and If I look at the possession stats etc, I cannot help but wonder if TNSE thought Burmi was that guy.
But as I have stated I don't think Burmi is was or will ever be that guy. We hear repeatedly from the press and even the coach that he requires special consideration because he grew up in the Russian system, He's difficult to play with, his line mates aren't unsure what he's gonna do etc. etc.

A minus player with not many points. Again for all his possession and shots against stats...46 assists in 269 games.?????? what?

I doubt Chevy ever believed that but a lot of overly enthusiastic fans here did. He is no Frolik. He is not even Frolik lite but he is going to be an effective 3C & PK'er.

 

[Skidooboy]

I don't think his stats in anyway show him being "Effective" in the NHL let alone as a 3C

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Because he isn't a well producing offensive player. Nobody said he was. You obviously can't compare him to Frolik in those aspects of the game as Fro mostly played with Ladd and Little when he was a Jet.

Burmistrov always had very meh offensive linemates. Everyone on the Thrashers was very meh offensively in his two seasons with them. When he was a Jet, Noel buried him behind Jokinen who wasn't producing much better (which rightfully pissed him off) and had bad possession stats on top of it.

Why do you keep calling for top6 production out of a player we (Burmi believers) keep on calling a good third line option who, with productive linemates, can play well defensively and chip in a decent amount of offensive production RELATIVE to other players in a similar role? He's paid 1.5 M and is mostly given bottom 6 minutes while being very good on the PK. Why not just be happy with those facts? He won't be near the top 6 next season unless he somehow explodes offensively. I am happy with that and don't expect more out of Alex.

You're right, he could have and maybe should have produced more. But he hasn't. That's why he is paid what he is paid and plays the minutes he's playing. He seems to be okay with the role hes given on this roster and people should be, too.

Well said.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't think his stats in anyway show him being "Effective" in the NHL let alone as a 3C

And they don't support your negativity toward him either. I had about given up on him earlier this year but he has turned it around since then. You are not acknowledging that at all. It is the only thing that matters.

 

[puck stoppa]

And they don't support your negativity toward him either. I had about given up on him earlier this year but he has turned it around since then. You are not acknowledging that at all. It is the only thing that matters.

Yes but Burmi will only fill the need the Jets have and that's 3rd line centre next year, and then after that he is gonzo along with Stafford. Not sure why we are arguing so much about him. He will do his job next year but the year after that we don't have room for him. My hope is that MP is the centre that year, or PLD steps in as a rookie, or Copp or Lowry develop into that role. Burmi will be gone, I like Burmi but he's got one year OR less left.

 

[Skidooboy]

And they don't support your negativity toward him either. I had about given up on him earlier this year but he has turned it around since then. You are not acknowledging that at all. It is the only thing that matters.

I'm not sure he has turned it around.
I don't give him the credit because
1. I don't think it's him, I think it's the guys around him.
2. Very small sample size.
3. These games are meaningless, teams that are in view the Jets as a paid practice, and teams that are out are in Full tank mode.
4.All year our problem has been the bottom six, everyone seems to agree on that.
Well Burmi has been a key member of that bottom six, and a big reason why it hasn't been any good. So here we are, youth pushing up all over the place and just like Pavs, we have a bust player being granted ice time and security because of contract status not talent. I hate that. I don't like it for Thorbs, Burmi, etc etc.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

If Burmi is part of the solution to our PK, and he can do a fine job stealing and feeding the puck to his wingers, I don't give a **** how many goals he scores. But I don't think we've seen the best of his offense quite yet.

 

[garret9]

"Meaningless games" is the worst fake-it analysis trope there is.

Players don't tank and these guys are fighting for jobs and roles, and they damn well know it.

Games are meaningless in terms of producing playoffs, but aren't meaningless in terms of other things.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yes but Burmi will only fill the need the Jets have and that's 3rd line centre next year, and then after that he is gonzo along with Stafford. Not sure why we are arguing so much about him. He will do his job next year but the year after that we don't have room for him. My hope is that MP is the centre that year, or PLD steps in as a rookie, or Copp or Lowry develop into that role. Burmi will be gone, I like Burmi but he's got one year OR less left.

That's possible but far from certain. Potentialialy he is an ideal 3C. He will have to fulfil that potential to last. If we don't draft a top 6 LW or C this year then he has longer than 1 year. Perreault will continue to be needed at LW. He will have to compete for the job but there is no reason right now to assume he won't continue to win it. He could also end up on the 4th line and PK if Lowry and/or Copp move up. I don't see any reason to rush him out the door unless he falls back to his play of earlier this season. Why would he do that?

 

[csk]

That's possible but far from certain. Potentialialy he is an ideal 3C. He will have to fulfil that potential to last. If we don't draft a top 6 LW or C this year then he has longer than 1 year. Perreault will continue to be needed at LW. He will have to compete for the job but there is no reason right now to assume he won't continue to win it. He could also end up on the 4th line and PK if Lowry and/or Copp move up. I don't see any reason to rush him out the door unless he falls back to his play of earlier this season. Why would he do that?

Yup, and he's on a short leash

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yup, and he's on a short leash

I wouldn't put it that way but there will be competition for jobs. He will have to beat out some other players. There will also be quite a bit of movement in the roster so its hard to say who the competition might be a year from now much less 2.

 

[garret9]

I know we all hope Lowry or Copp becomes that 3C to usurp Burmi, but I'm not sure they are good enough.

However, I think Petan may be able to do it. Or at least, I hope he does. Having a 3C better than Burmi would be a good thing.

 

[GJF]

I know we all hope Lowry or Copp becomes that 3C to usurp Burmi, but I'm not sure they are good enough.

However, I think Petan may be able to do it. Or at least, I hope he does. Having a 3C better than Burmi would be a good thing.

Probably won't work long term but a long term center depth of:

#1 Scheifele
#2 Little
#3 Petan/Dubois (considering Petan becomes as good as hoped or we draft PLD)
#4 Burmistrov

would be one of the deepest and best centre depth around the league.

 

[ps241]

I know we all hope Lowry or Copp becomes that 3C to usurp Burmi, but I'm not sure they are good enough.

However, I think Petan may be able to do it. Or at least, I hope he does. Having a 3C better than Burmi would be a good thing.

Will PMo and TNSE have the courage to build a 3rd line with actual skill? I feel like they just don't get "it" when it comes to the bottom six. Our 4th line has always been laughable by design but it infects the 3rd line when even minor injuries occur.

 

[Mud Turtle]

He almost has no choice at this point as we have so much young talent fighting for jobs. Unless he packages some of those guys up for D help.
The forward choices for next year are mind boggling.

 

[Dayofthedogs]

I think the key to building a third line with skill will boil down to Matty P playing there next year and Petan in the Future. Could DeLeo maybe fill that role too?

Maybe Petan/Matty P/Army next year?

That leaves Burmi with Copp and Lowry on the 4th.

 

[puck stoppa]

I think the key to building a third line with skill will boil down to Matty P playing there next year and Petan in the Future. Could DeLeo maybe fill that role too?

Maybe Petan/Matty P/Army next year?

That leaves Burmi with Copp and Lowry on the 4th.

I really like MP centering that third line, I just can't figure out who takes his spot on line #2. Ladd would look good there next year
A third line of Connor MP Dano/Petan looks pretty good to me. Then eventually Connor takes over the spot on line #2, Im just not sold on anyone being close to compete with MP for that second line spot. The following year is a different story, and MP as third line centre before Petan is ready makes sense. I love Petan, just not sure how he'll do at centre just quite yet.

 

[Dayofthedogs]

I really like MP centering that third line, I just can't figure out who takes his spot on line #2. Ladd would look good there next year
A third line of Connor MP Dano/Petan looks pretty good to me. Then eventually Connor takes over the spot on line #2, Im just not sold on anyone being close to compete with MP for that second line spot. The following year is a different story, and MP as third line centre before Petan is ready makes sense. I love Petan, just not sure how he'll do at centre just quite yet.

It's not that I don't think MP shouldn't be on the second line. He should but he would make the third a competent line almost singlehandedly.

Guess in my mind the second line becomes

Connor/Little/Stafford

I'd really like Stafford to get traded in the off season and use Dano in that spot. I don't really like either of those guys in that hole.... I guess maybe it could go

Connor/Little/Petan and the 3rd line Army/MP/Dano

With Maurice talking about how Ehlers needed to play with one of 2 centers this year (Chef or Litts) I'm assuming that he will also feel the same way about Connor.

 

[Skidooboy]

"Meaningless games" is the worst fake-it analysis trope there is.

Players don't tank and these guys are fighting for jobs and roles, and they damn well know it.

Games are meaningless in terms of producing playoffs, but aren't meaningless in terms of other things.

...But, players on teams that have secured spots do slowdown and relax. Especially teams that have been there before. they maybe dont go into the corner as hard as they did last month, or will next month, Teams that realise the presidents trophy is nice but not really worth anything in the play-offs, not worth a season ending injury for.

Not every player in the losing teams is "playing for a job" or even "playing for pride" some are just playing for the cheque and hoping next year is better. I'm not saying they aren't trying, just that its harder to get "Up" for games for some players. and suggesting every player in the league is a GUNG-HO superstar like Wheeler at this time of year isn't rational.

Guys with a sore muscle go on IR, rookies with 0 games get brought up. NCAA guys sign and play 2-3 down the stretch the list goes on.

so yeah, there are indeed meaningless games.

 

[csk]

...But, players on teams that have secured spots do slowdown and relax. Especially teams that have been there before. they maybe dont go into the corner as hard as they did last month, or will next month, Teams that realise the presidents trophy is nice but not really worth anything in the play-offs, not worth a season ending injury for.

Not every player in the losing teams is "playing for a job" or even "playing for pride" some are just playing for the cheque and hoping next year is better. I'm not saying they aren't trying, just that its harder to get "Up" for games for some players. and suggesting every player in the league is a GUNG-HO superstar like Wheeler at this time of year isn't rational.

Guys with a sore muscle go on IR, rookies with 0 games get brought up. NCAA guys sign and play 2-3 down the stretch the list goes on.

so yeah, there are indeed meaningless games.

Just because the games are meaningless for some players, doesn't make them meaningless overall. Even then, draft position matters.

 

[Grind]

...But, players on teams that have secured spots do slowdown and relax. Especially teams that have been there before. they maybe dont go into the corner as hard as they did last month, or will next month, Teams that realise the presidents trophy is nice but not really worth anything in the play-offs, not worth a season ending injury for.

Not every player in the losing teams is "playing for a job" or even "playing for pride" some are just playing for the cheque and hoping next year is better. I'm not saying they aren't trying, just that its harder to get "Up" for games for some players. and suggesting every player in the league is a GUNG-HO superstar like Wheeler at this time of year isn't rational.

Guys with a sore muscle go on IR, rookies with 0 games get brought up. NCAA guys sign and play 2-3 down the stretch the list goes on.

so yeah, there are indeed meaningless games.

the problem with this, is you can do it for just about any block of games in the season if you want.

The first 20 games of the season are meaningless because the players on most teams are still getting comfortable so i'm not impressed by what anyone does there
​

See? It's just as valid. So now, rather then an 82 game season, we've got a 55 game season

I don't put any value on any players first five games with a new team after trade because he's just settlign into a new team and we might not be getting an accurate picture of him.​

I don't put any value on any players first five games with a new team because he's so jacked up and trying so hard he'll perform waybetter then he ever will in the future again​

.

The problem with making these "adjustments" is unless your willing to comb through every 5-10 game stretch of the season for every single player and "adjust" the worth of those games accordingly for all of these factors, all your doing is punishing one player for the sake of it.