Alec Baldwin Fatally Shoots Crewmember on Film Set

[Richard]

Tons of productions that have gone over without a hitch.

Procedures should be streamlined. Otherwise to me, consequences should match the level of negligence.

If Baldwin is practicing his cross draw there is no reason on God's green earth he should have a fireable weapon while doing it, even off take. You take away the gun and give him a prop gun. If this is what happened its not his fault per se but where is the safety director and armorer?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If Baldwin is practicing his cross draw there is no reason on God's green earth he should have a fireable weapon while doing it, even off take. You take away the gun and give him a prop gun. If this is what happened its not his fault per se but where is the safety director and armorer?

The reason I lay blame at Alec the producer is because he in part produces this film which includes dealing with safety concerns and deciding to handle a unionized walk off with non-union replacements. I’m pretty sure this is part of what contributed to this tragedy.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Ultimately, the blame would lay on the production company that made the movie.

It would be like Wal-Mart hiring someone who spat in the bread loaves that they sell.

It makes absolutely no sense to blame that individual. Of course, they should face the consequences for their actions, but ultimately, the PR side show would fall squarely onto the shoulders of Wal-Mart.

Of course the legal consequences will ultimately go to the company which hires the employee. That's just how liability works in the majority of cases, especially because it often boils down to insurance coverages rather than actual personal responsibility.

But surely you're not saying that on an ethical, common-sense level you would blame the CEO of Wal-Mart (personally) for that incident rather than the actual employee who spat on the bread?

 

[Egg]

But surely you're not saying that on an ethical, common-sense level you would blame the CEO of Wal-Mart (personally) for that incident rather than the actual employee who spat on the bread?

Of course I wouldn't blame them. However, as a leader, they must take responsibility for what happened within their company.

More damage control, than blame for actions you didn't do.

It was due to the incompetence or criminal activity associated with an employee that they took responsibility to hire.

You can distance yourself from a crime you didn't commit, but not for the ownership that it occurred in your company, and what you will do about it.

 

[Egg]

If Baldwin is practicing his cross draw there is no reason on God's green earth he should have a fireable weapon while doing it, even off take. You take away the gun and give him a prop gun. If this is what happened its not his fault per se but where is the safety director and armorer?

Honestly. This is an accident. I don't think anyone should be criminally charged for this, but I definitely see a heavy handed lawsuit in the works.

 

[PK Cronin]

So would you take a firearm in that scenario, put it in your mouth and pull the trigger without checking it?

If not then why would you point it at anyone else with just trusting others.

If so then I don't know what to say

I agree with you, but it's just ignorance or laziness from the actors most likely. Are there people responsible for handling the props and the firearms? Yes. Are they right 99.99% of the time? Probably. Does that mean the actor should just trust these people all of the time? No.

People make mistakes and one way to help mitigate those mistakes is by making sure you practicing proper gun safety as much as possible. Whether basic gun safety is or isn't common on sets doesn't matter a whole lot to me. This incident demonstrates that it should be something any person handling a firearm should be aware of, even if they're on a movie set.

I'm by no means a gun expert, but I also dislike how "prop gun" or similar things are being thrown around. It's not a fake, toy, prop, etc. if it can actually fire. It's a real gun and should be treated appropriately. I don't really understand why they don't find a less deadly alternative for some of these scenes.

 

[StreetHawk]

I agree with you, but it's just ignorance or laziness from the actors most likely. Are there people responsible for handling the props and the firearms? Yes. Are they right 99.99% of the time? Probably. Does that mean the actor should just trust these people all of the time? No.

People make mistakes and one way to help mitigate those mistakes is by making sure you practicing proper gun safety as much as possible. Whether basic gun safety is or isn't common on sets doesn't matter a whole lot to me. This incident demonstrates that it should be something any person handling a firearm should be aware of, even if they're on a movie set.

I'm by no means a gun expert, but I also dislike how "prop gun" or similar things are being thrown around. It's not a fake, toy, prop, etc. if it can actually fire. It's a real gun and should be treated appropriately. I don't really understand why they don't find a less deadly alternative for some of these scenes.

With cgi and all the things you can do post production, I’m surprised that any weapon gets discharged unless everyone else is safely away from the direction of fire. Seems like there wouldn’t be a need to use real weapons if there are going to be a bunch of people around.

 

[Canucky]

Honestly. This is an accident. I don't think anyone should be criminally charged for this, but I definitely see a heavy handed lawsuit in the works.

An accident that was preventable. Baldwin owns this from the accounts presented. Guess will have to wait and see as this unfolds.

 

[tacogeoff]

I agree with you, but it's just ignorance or laziness from the actors most likely. Are there people responsible for handling the props and the firearms? Yes. Are they right 99.99% of the time? Probably. Does that mean the actor should just trust these people all of the time? No.

People make mistakes and one way to help mitigate those mistakes is by making sure you practicing proper gun safety as much as possible. Whether basic gun safety is or isn't common on sets doesn't matter a whole lot to me. This incident demonstrates that it should be something any person handling a firearm should be aware of, even if they're on a movie set.

I'm by no means a gun expert, but I also dislike how "prop gun" or similar things are being thrown around. It's not a fake, toy, prop, etc. if it can actually fire. It's a real gun and should be treated appropriately. I don't really understand why they don't find a less deadly alternative for some of these scenes.

yup mistakes happen and its sad when they do. gun safety is paramount when you are around them.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

Yeesh. The persons in charge of props and weapons safety screwed this one hard and it led to an awful tragedy.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

This is probably the worst example of method acting I've ever heard of.

 

[Egg]

An accident that was preventable.

Most accidents are highly preventable.

The only practical thing that can be done now, is implementing redundant safety protocols that avoid a reoccurring event.

 

[NyQuil]

Veteran prop master turned down 'Rust' film: 'An accident waiting to happen'

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Veteran prop master turned down 'Rust' film: 'An accident waiting to happen'

I suspected he might feel guilty as I was reading the article, and indeed he does.

However, he made a sound choice and I’m sure he voiced his concerns that fell on deaf ears.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I think the big difference is that Hexum accidentally killed himself goofing off and Lee was killed actually filming a scene (believe it was the pawn shop scene).

Both tragic, but Lee was killed by negligence from the people who were suppose to be supervising the guns.

I think they bought the gun that killed Lee at a flea market or antique shop and never knew about an old bullet lodged inside it.

Been awhile since I saw the documentary, but it was something along those lines.

It’s messed up because not only did a young Lee die so needlessly, but Massee, who played Fun Boy and fired the gun, was haunted by what he did up until his own death.

I'm not sure about where they acquired the gun, but from what I had read the gun that killed Lee was fired earlier in the day and had never been properly cleared after that.

Regardless, all of these things are so tragic because they all just stem from people not being properly trained and not treating their weapons with the respect they deserve. Even with non-firing replicas I don't aim them at myself or others. (Except my fiancée's stuffed bear, much to her dismay).

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Man, when I heard Alec Baldwin was co-producing an old Western Movie with himself as the main character I thought it would be a shit-show, but I could have never imagined it was THIS much of a shit show. Every aspect of filming and production of this film from top to bottom seemed to just be a total mess.

 

[Canes]

Two people clearly going for Baldwin’s throat in this thread because they don’t like his politics. Truly shameful and disgusting behavior. Someone died because of an accident and the first thought is “Screw the guy who made the mistake his politics are different than mine!”

Baldwin doesn't suck because of his politics. He sucks because he's an abusive asshole and now just added union busting reckless douche to his title.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Honestly. This is an accident. I don't think anyone should be criminally charged for this, but I definitely see a heavy handed lawsuit in the works.

Preventable accidents that results in deaths or serious injuries are charged as crimes all the time. Negligence homicide is a very real and serious charge.

 

[Richard]

You know the more I read...


Hours before the shooting, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set of “Rust” in protest of working conditions, The Los Angeles Times reported, citing three unidentified people familiar with the matter. A source told the newspaper that as camera crew members who are members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees were assembling their gear, several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them. A member of the producer staff subsequently ordered union members to leave, the Times reported.

I honestly wouldn't put it past someone who is disgruntled to put a round in the chamber.

Far out, I know, but I wouldn't put it past humanity.

 

[Jussi]

The reason I lay blame at Alec the producer is because he in part produces this film which includes dealing with safety concerns and deciding to handle a unionized walk off with non-union replacements. I’m pretty sure this is part of what contributed to this tragedy.

He's one of 6 producers.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

He's one of 6 producers.

Yes and he's not the only one but it seems like he's taking the lead on a lot of decisions in this context including the walk off and decision to use non-union replacements even after the gun had misfired previously and was used that morning for target practice with live ammunition. It seems like there's enough negligence there from his part to at least say he contributed to it. Not that he's alone but likely a central figure.

 

[soothsayer]

The civil liability net will be cast widely. Criminal liability will be cast very narrowly if at all. Based on what we know from reports, it's tough to argue that Baldwin is criminally liable here.

Also, I have to say, regarding the story that crew members were firing the gun for fun earlier: that's exactly what I figured happened here.

 

[Richard]

The civil liability net will be cast widely. Criminal liability will be cast very narrowly if at all. Based on what we know from reports, it's tough to argue that Baldwin is criminally liable here.

Also, I have to say, regarding the story that crew members were firing the gun for fun earlier: that's exactly what I figured happened here.

And that there was a break for lunch and the armorer did not check the weapon---- jesus that is your job for christ sake. 2nd movie as armorer and her career ends.

 

[Egg]

Negligence homicide is a very real and serious charge.

Involuntary manslaughter may be applied here, but you have so many levels of responsibility here.

You would have to find who is actually criminally responsible here.

Alec Baldwin, definitely isn't it. He unknowingly fired a pistol loaded with live rounds.

You would have to prove that he knowingly grabbed a loaded gun.

At best, those responsible for the actual firearm props will take the brunt of the consequences.

I just don't see anyone going to jail over this. I would be surprised.

 

[Richard]

Maybe I grew part Appalachia redneck - but even when I personally unloaded and oiled my hunt at night after hunting the FIRST thing I did next morning at the asscrack of dawn was to make sure there wasn't a round in the chamber when I took it out of the case. Always teach a gun as though it is loaded. That is why if you are aiming at a camera and PEOPLE for christ sake you can't be using a fireable weapon!