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Player Discussion Alain Vigneault Part VI

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although to be fair, why the hell would they miss with things now...

Gorton just said they would reevaluate in the summer, so unless they are just downright embarrassed because of the last two games, just ride him out till the end of the season.

He's doing a splendid job (inadvertently or not) at getting us to a good pick
 
I’m calling BS. If they’re going for the best draft pick possible, there’s no reason to fire him until after the season. His shitty ass coaching + depleted roster = best chance at Dahlin
 
firing him at this point is counter productive. we need him to get the best draft pick possible
 
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Mac n Gs said:
I’m calling BS. If they’re going for the best draft pick possible, there’s no reason to fire him until after the season. His ****ty ass coaching + depleted roster = best chance at Dahlin
Click to expand...

Once they move all these players, it’s not gonna matter who their coach is.
 
Tawnos said:
Once they move all these players, it’s not gonna matter who their coach is.
Click to expand...
We’ve seen coaching change effects recently, and we still don’t know how many players are actually moving just yet.

It’s moot anyways. That source is BS
 
I would like to ask for a more sober analysis of AV. He has four seasons under his belt. If you in September 13' ask yourself -- what kind of results should AV get from this team? The team by far exceeded those expectations. If you in February 18' ask yourself, what kind of results were reasonable to expect from AV that last 4 years -- the team by far exceeded those expectations. Still according to the general opinion he has destroyed for his team from Day 1 and never done anything well. Looking at our results -- if that was true -- we would surely be fans of a dynasty by now with just an average coach.

It just don't add up. There are only "but CF%", "but Hank", but, but but but. And I am sure many of those buts are legit. OTOH you have a team without a goto line offensively and for long stretches missing in PMDs scoring a ton of goals in this league, there are two sides of the coin on many of those buts for sure. I don't think many see the context, its the easiest thing in the world to scrap the man-man defense and bring in a defensiveminded coach who will have his team play deep zone defense and we would never see anyone open in the crease again. The result undoubtedly is that our transition game goes down the drain. How many scores does we score then? In our peak years we definitely go from top 10 to bottom 10 over night. And its always stuff like "how can AV defend with McD-Girardi late in a game against Ottawa and not Skjei-Smith whom he is sheltering? Wooooooorrrrrsstst ever", I was not convinced then and I am surely not convinced now that Skjei-Smtih would have been a great shut-down pair in the POs last season. I also thought Smith had issues back then already being a lefty on the right side. When he faced a RHS hanging out around the left circle he could be taken advantage of.

We turn the other cheek to some extent, makes us lame at times. OTOH we have had a very small amount of injuries, no coincidence.

I am all for replacing AV, but for me we need to find the right man.
 
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Ola said:
I would like to ask for a more sober analysis of AV. He has four seasons under his belt. If you in September 13' ask yourself -- what kind of results should AV get from this team? The team by far exceeded those expectations. If you in February 18' ask yourself, what kind of results were reasonable to expect from AV that last 4 years -- the team by far exceeded those expectations. Still according to the general opinion he has destroyed for his team from Day 1 and never done anything well. Looking at our results -- if that was true -- we would surely be fans of a dynasty by now with just an average coach.

It just don't add up. There are only "but CF%", "but Hank", but, but but but. And I am sure many of those buts are legit. OTOH you have a team without a goto line offensively and for long stretches missing in PMDs scoring a ton of goals in this league, there are two sides of the coin on many of those buts for sure. I don't think many see the context, its the easiest thing in the world to scrap the man-man defense and bring in a defensiveminded coach who will have his team play deep zone defense and we would never see anyone open in the crease again. The result undoubtedly is that our transition game goes down the drain. How many scores does we score then? In our peak years we definitely go from top 10 to bottom 10 over night. And its always stuff like "how can AV defend with McD-Girardi late in a game against Ottawa and not Skjei-Smith whom he is sheltering? Wooooooorrrrrsstst ever", I was not convinced then and I am surely not convinced now that Skjei-Smtih would have been a great shut-down pair in the POs last season. I also thought Smith had issues back then already being a lefty on the right side. When he faced a RHS hanging out around the left circle he could be taken advantage of.

We turn the other cheek to some extent, makes us lame at times. OTOH we have had a very small amount of injuries, no coincidence.

I am all for replacing AV, but for me we need to find the right man.
Click to expand...

Are you forgetting the three guys knocked out in 2 games?
 
I'm usually one to defer to the professionals but some of AV's decisions are so odd to me that I can't help but think he's a Devils plant deep undercover.

And I liked the guy when he first got here.
 
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Ola said:
I would like to ask for a more sober analysis of AV. He has four seasons under his belt. If you in September 13' ask yourself -- what kind of results should AV get from this team? The team by far exceeded those expectations. If you in February 18' ask yourself, what kind of results were reasonable to expect from AV that last 4 years -- the team by far exceeded those expectations. Still according to the general opinion he has destroyed for his team from Day 1 and never done anything well. Looking at our results -- if that was true -- we would surely be fans of a dynasty by now with just an average coach.

It just don't add up. There are only "but CF%", "but Hank", but, but but but. And I am sure many of those buts are legit. OTOH you have a team without a goto line offensively and for long stretches missing in PMDs scoring a ton of goals in this league, there are two sides of the coin on many of those buts for sure. I don't think many see the context, its the easiest thing in the world to scrap the man-man defense and bring in a defensiveminded coach who will have his team play deep zone defense and we would never see anyone open in the crease again. The result undoubtedly is that our transition game goes down the drain. How many scores does we score then? In our peak years we definitely go from top 10 to bottom 10 over night. And its always stuff like "how can AV defend with McD-Girardi late in a game against Ottawa and not Skjei-Smith whom he is sheltering? Wooooooorrrrrsstst ever", I was not convinced then and I am surely not convinced now that Skjei-Smtih would have been a great shut-down pair in the POs last season. I also thought Smith had issues back then already being a lefty on the right side. When he faced a RHS hanging out around the left circle he could be taken advantage of.

We turn the other cheek to some extent, makes us lame at times. OTOH we have had a very small amount of injuries, no coincidence.

I am all for replacing AV, but for me we need to find the right man.
Click to expand...

You have to give AV his due that he was a good regular season coach in his tenure with the Rangers. He coaches to win each game with little thought of developing young talent for the future. But if you have a veteran team looking to win the Cup that year I think you have to say he would be better than most. His lack of trust in young players though is a big problem and the resultant failure to let them develop and learn from their mistakes. Look at the Flyers, Canes and Bruins this year. Teams that started with a number of inexperienced talented players who did not play well early in the season. By season's end all 3 surpassed the fading Rangers handily. Pretty safe to opine that those teams would not have improved thru-out the season to the same extent with AV at the helm.

And AV must take a lot of blame for the Ottawa series last year. The Rangers were the better team and he was out-coached. It wasn't just his awful defense pair deployment - the team came out so flat in Game 6 with the season on the line - just as they have so many games this season. They could have gone to the finals last year against a crippled Penguins team that struggled to get past Ottawa.

In any event the Rangers are going to be a very young team next year and the most important thing they need in the new coach is one who develops young talent, even if ultimately he will not be the best choice to win the Cup a few years down the road.
 
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Ola said:
I would like to ask for a more sober analysis of AV. He has four seasons under his belt. If you in September 13' ask yourself -- what kind of results should AV get from this team? The team by far exceeded those expectations. If you in February 18' ask yourself, what kind of results were reasonable to expect from AV that last 4 years -- the team by far exceeded those expectations. Still according to the general opinion he has destroyed for his team from Day 1 and never done anything well. Looking at our results -- if that was true -- we would surely be fans of a dynasty by now with just an average coach.

It just don't add up. There are only "but CF%", "but Hank", but, but but but. And I am sure many of those buts are legit. OTOH you have a team without a goto line offensively and for long stretches missing in PMDs scoring a ton of goals in this league, there are two sides of the coin on many of those buts for sure. I don't think many see the context, its the easiest thing in the world to scrap the man-man defense and bring in a defensiveminded coach who will have his team play deep zone defense and we would never see anyone open in the crease again. The result undoubtedly is that our transition game goes down the drain. How many scores does we score then? In our peak years we definitely go from top 10 to bottom 10 over night. And its always stuff like "how can AV defend with McD-Girardi late in a game against Ottawa and not Skjei-Smith whom he is sheltering? Wooooooorrrrrsstst ever", I was not convinced then and I am surely not convinced now that Skjei-Smtih would have been a great shut-down pair in the POs last season. I also thought Smith had issues back then already being a lefty on the right side. When he faced a RHS hanging out around the left circle he could be taken advantage of.

We turn the other cheek to some extent, makes us lame at times. OTOH we have had a very small amount of injuries, no coincidence.

I am all for replacing AV, but for me we need to find the right man.
Click to expand...
I don't think he was bad from day 1, but he's well past wearing out his welcome now.

Yeah, in earlier years he did great. Now, if you have to talk about aggregating 4 years, its because the last two haven't been very good including losing series because of questionable coaching. The guy gets a lot of money in a job with relatively little security, if your last few years weren't good, you probably won't keep your job.

We're talking about top coaches in the best league in the world, they shouldn't have to choose between letting the other team make camp in our crease and not being able to score goals. They can and should do both to varying extents.

We turn the other cheek constantly. He lets the room motivate itself, but we just don't have the guys with the personalities for that. It's another example of him not adapting to what he has.
 
Any nhler can score goals it you ignore playing defense and blow the done 500 times a game...

His entire system is predicated on odd man rushes and elite goaltending. Our sustained pressure blows. Our defensive done coverage blows.

We would be a perennial lottery team without Henrik covering up for this crapshow of a coach.

Torts accentuated our strength...protect the goalie try to win low scoring games...av tried to take advantage of our strength by basically saying...hey Henrik..you get that half of the ice and we'll get the other.

Its certainly 1 way to go
I'd rather have a coach that can do both.


Torts..for all his negatives...also routinely made lineup and in game decisions that made sense to me...I dotn always agree with it...but it made sense....av...not so much.
 
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Inferno said:
Any nhler can score goals it you ignore playing defense and blow the done 500 times a game...

His entire system is predicated on odd man rushes and elite goaltending. Our sustained pressure blows. Our defensive done coverage blows.

We would be a perennial lottery team without Henrik covering up for this crapshow of a coach.

Torts accentuated our strength...protect the goalie try to win low scoring games...av tried to take advantage of our strength by basically saying...hey Henrik..you get that half of the ice and we'll get the other.

Its certainly 1 way to go
I'd rather have a coach that can do both.


Torts..for all his negatives...also routinely made lineup and in game decisions that made sense to me...I dotn always agree with it...but it made sense....av...not so much.
Click to expand...
You're preaching to the choir. I'm basically personally done posting long explanations. What hasn't been said already? I totally get you though.
 
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