Aho's future relationship with teammates, management and fans

[Arto Kilponen]

That's quite a leap of logic you have there. Especially considering we already know the disagreement was over years, not money.

I'm continually amazed how often people attempt to speak with authority on subjects in which they have an apparent lack of correct information.

If they had such a big disagreement, then why they accepted the contract? Sure they would have lost the player, but if the length is unacceptable, don't match the contract.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If they had such a big disagreement, then why they accepted the contract? Sure they would have lost the player, but if the length is unacceptable, don't match the contract.

LOL, because they didn’t want to lose the player. The contract wasn’t unacceptable, it was just undesirable, thus why they were negotiating. It’s really not that complicated.

 

[Roboturner913]

If they had such a big disagreement, then why they accepted the contract? Sure they would have lost the player, but if the length is unacceptable, don't match the contract.

Nobody said the 5-year length was "unacceptable" that's just you putting words into peoples' mouths.

If my wife wants to go eat at a Mexican restaurant and I want a burger, I don't slam my fist down on the table and yell "unacceptable!" Because I'm not a child and not everything is as drama-filled as [MOD] on message boards say it is.

 

[Lempo]

If they had such a big disagreement, then why they accepted the contract? Sure they would have lost the player, but if the length is unacceptable, don't match the contract.

Because at that point *their* options were 'No Aho at all' or '5 years of Aho'.

 

[Arto Kilponen]

Because at that point *their* options were 'No Aho at all' or '5 years of Aho'.

And that's the point where Hurricanes put themselves into by not signing Aho earlier. It is not Aho's fault. And as Bergevin showed, it was completely acceptable for an NHL team to have that contract with Aho.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Dont see how it matters- Aho wanted what he thinks hes worth, got an offer for that, and his agent explained that the offer likely keeps him in Carolina minus the negotiations but with a small chance he ends up in Montreal

Sure one can ask ‘but why chance leaving at all’, but in reality the chance was in Wadell’s court - not Aho’s. Plus at that point if they didnt match then it meant Carolina didnt want him badly enough which in turn would have made the move to Montreal much easier

Nothing changes minus some good ol’ locker room jokes

 

[Roboturner913]

And that's the point where Hurricanes put themselves into by not signing Aho earlier. It is not Aho's fault.

Why are you obsessed with assigning blame or fault?

It's nobody's fault at all. In the end, our player is signed and everybody is happy with the compromises that were reached.

Stop trying to create drama.

 

[Lempo]

And that's the point where Hurricanes put themselves into by not signing Aho earlier. It is not Aho's fault. And as Bergevin showed, it was completely acceptable for an NHL team to have that contract with Aho.

It's no one's fault obviously. Waddell's job was to secure the asset for the longest time at acceptable price. Hadn't Aho signed he'd be like any other RFA currently is. But Aho pulled the gamechanger that no one else has done under this CBA.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

And that's the point where Hurricanes put themselves into by not signing Aho earlier. It is not Aho's fault. And as Bergevin showed, it was completely acceptable for an NHL team to have that contract with Aho.

You keep wanting to assign blame, when none is needed:

Canes: 8 year deal desirable, 5 years acceptable, but trying to negotiate up from 5 year initial asking term. Canes had all summer to negotiate and could match any offer so nothing to lose by continuing to negotiate.

Aho: reportedly asked 5 years, $9.5M, was willing to go lower on $$, but wanted 5 years and didn’t want to drag it out.

Bergevin: willing to agree to 5 years because he had nothing to lose.

The Canes, like the TBL, TOR, WPG, PHI, VAN, etc. wanted to negotiate all summer long to get more favorable terms. Aho and his agent found a way around that. Kudos to them. I don’t blame anyone.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Anyone going to file a police report since Aho said he wanted to play in Montreal and now isn’t? That’s gotta be against the law, right?

 

[Roboturner913]

Anyone going to file a police report since Aho said he wanted to play in Montreal and now isn’t? That’s gotta be against the law, right?

here's your goddamned police report edition

 

[My Special Purpose]

The Canes, like the TBL, TOR, WPG, PHI, VAN, etc. wanted to negotiate all summer long to get more favorable terms. Aho and his agent found a way around that. Kudos to them. I don’t blame anyone.

I'm going to blame someone. I blame Bergevin. We don't have the option of negotiating all summer with our RFA, as the other teams do, because he took that away from us for *no* reason. Part of being a GM is realizing when you're being used by an agent. Aho and his agent can only find that way around the "negotiating all summer" gambit if they have a willing dupe.

Word is that Marner wants a three-year deal if he's going to sign an offer sheet. It seems weird that he would *want* to be an RFA again, but it's actually brilliant -- and the same thing Meier just did in San Jose.

Yes, he'll be an RFA, but when you're an RFA, you have to get qualified, which means you have a guaranteed salary. (Yes, a team can choose not to qualify a player or can team-elect arbitration, but for the quality of players we're talking about, neither of those is likely to be a factor.) Meier's four-year, $24 million deal pays him $4-4-6-10 million in the four seasons. Most of it is signing bonus in the first two seasons, but in the fourth season, it's all base salary, meaning he has to get qualified at $10 million in the summer of 2023 or become a UFA. Can you imagine the leg up in negotiations that will give him, *guaranteeing* that his first year's salary *starts* at $10 million?!?!

So that's what Marner's agent wants if he's going to sign an offer sheet. Obviously, that's not a great plan for Toronto. The job of GMs across the league is to see this, and not to become Marner's unwitting accomplice. *If* they can structure a deal that makes sense to their team -- in terms of compensation to Marner and compensation to the Leafs -- I think they should do it. But, if all they're going to do overrule the plans of Toronto's management and give Marner what he wants as part of a sure-to-fail offer sheet, that's not a good faith play.

This is essentially what Bergevin did to Carolina, and I put the blame 100 percent at his feet. His *only* ploy here was to mess with what Carolina was trying to do in terms of signing Aho long term. His plan from the start was to substitute his judgement for Waddell's and hurt Carolina's planning for the future. Now, there's some value in that, but not enough to paint a large target on your back. And believe me when I say that other organizations see what Bergevin did. They all know he never had a shot at the player and gave the player what he wanted in his next contract. It won't be appreciated around the league.

I can assure you of this much. Whatever Montreal "plans" to do contract-wise with Domi and Kotkaniemi just got a whole lot harder to pull off.

 

[Svechhammer]

Do we even need to troll Montreal anymore at this point?

If they had such a big disagreement, then why they accepted the contract? Sure they would have lost the player, but if the length is unacceptable, don't match the contract.

Is this a serious question? You're joking, right?

 

[Lempo]

I'm going to blame someone. I blame Bergevin. We don't have the option of negotiating all summer with our RFA, as the other teams do, because he took that away from us for *no* reason. Part of being a GM is realizing when you're being used by an agent. Aho and his agent can only find that way around the "negotiating all summer" gambit if they have a willing dupe.

Word is that Marner wants a three-year deal if he's going to sign an offer sheet. It seems weird that he would *want* to be an RFA again, but it's actually brilliant -- and the same thing Meier just did in San Jose.

Yes, he'll be an RFA, but when you're an RFA, you have to get qualified, which means you have a guaranteed salary. (Yes, a team can choose not to qualify a player or can team-elect arbitration, but for the quality of players we're talking about, neither of those is likely to be a factor.) Meier's four-year, $24 million deal pays him $4-4-6-10 million in the four seasons. Most of it is signing bonus in the first two seasons, but in the fourth season, it's all base salary, meaning he has to get qualified at $10 million in the summer of 2023 or become a UFA. Can you imagine the leg up in negotiations that will give him, *guaranteeing* that his first year's salary *starts* at $10 million?!?!

So that's what Marner's agent wants if he's going to sign an offer sheet. Obviously, that's not a great plan for Toronto. The job of GMs across the league is to see this, and not to become Marner's unwitting accomplice. *If* they can structure a deal that makes sense to their team -- in terms of compensation to Marner and compensation to the Leafs -- I think they should do it. But, if all they're going to do overrule the plans of Toronto's management and give Marner what he wants as part of a sure-to-fail offer sheet, that's not a good faith play.

This is essentially what Bergevin did to Carolina, and I put the blame 100 percent at his feet. His *only* ploy here was to mess with what Carolina was trying to do in terms of signing Aho long term. His plan from the start was to substitute his judgement for Waddell's and hurt Carolina's planning for the future. Now, there's some value in that, but not enough to paint a large target on your back. And believe me when I say that other organizations see what Bergevin did. They all know he never had a shot at the player and gave the player what he wanted in his next contract. It won't be appreciated around the league.

I can assure you of this much. Whatever Montreal "plans" to do contract-wise with Domi and Kotkaniemi just got a whole lot harder to pull off.

On Timo Meier: the Club-elected Arbitration ends in an award with at least 85 percent of the last year's salary. Meier becoming UFA next, only a one-year SPC is possible. So Sharks do have the option of giving Meier a guaranteed 8.5M arb-SPC instead of guearanteed 10M QO. At this point they will have had almost a full year already the option to extend him, and should know by then if he plans to re-sign or go for UFA.

Also, at this moment it is possible that season 22/23 is a lockout. Meier's SPC giving most money as Base Salary on that specific year (to drive up the following QO) may not be the winner's choice.

Bergevin wasn't used but an accomplish: it cost him nothing expect picks being frozen for a week, and allowed him to try and snatch Aho by the front-loaded bonus lottery ticket strategy, and had unexpectedly he succeeded he would have had Aho with the sweet SPC that Aho all the time expected to be signed into the Canes with. That lottery ticket he got by playing along was worth his troubles.

A GM not seeing the legit merit of Bergevin's move is not a very good GM. They may not like the thought of being targeted and thusly gentlemanny more or less impliedly agree to not target each others' RFAs, but Bergy wouldn't have been doing his job if he didn't take the off chance with nothing but big upside.

 

[jaloviina]

Aho isn't called the professor for nothing kudos to him. I heard the C is now quite possible. btw check my location.

 

[Vagrant]

This is essentially what Bergevin did to Carolina, and I put the blame 100 percent at his feet. His *only* ploy here was to mess with what Carolina was trying to do in terms of signing Aho long term. His plan from the start was to substitute his judgement for Waddell's and hurt Carolina's planning for the future. Now, there's some value in that, but not enough to paint a large target on your back. And believe me when I say that other organizations see what Bergevin did. They all know he never had a shot at the player and gave the player what he wanted in his next contract. It won't be appreciated around the league.

this is the only part that i really disagree with about this situation. i don't mean to foreshadow some kind of revolution redefining the way organizations are operated, but what tom dundon has done from the very beginning has unsettled a lot of traditionalists around the league. before the storm surge, before the celebrity cameos, before all of it they saw carolina execute a shift in the way they built their front office and the way they spend money. they unceremoniously disengaged from the past and the sentiment that keeping franchise veterans around the offices was just some form of pension. dundon clearly didn't see the value in some of those traditionalist institutions. it took a lot of gumption to dismiss chuck kaiton and ron francis and the slew of others that left either of their own volition or because they saw the writing on the wall. vellucci was perhaps the last remaining holdout. people are a bit confused about why it looks like a lateral move to leave this organization to head to pittsburgh, but if vellucci becomes the gm in waiting it will make more sense. should he get that job, he will be getting a job unlike the job of gm in carolina, which is to be part of a troika of equally dispersed influence to insure that all decisions pass the smell test. traditionalists, like bergevin, take this as an attack on the base of nepotism from which the league has operated upon for so long. his "plan" was to uncover carolina's "mickey mouse" practices of underpaying hockey operations due to this tactic of managing a team by a committee of more reasonably compensated hockey people as opposed to cutting a fat check for one omnipotent and unquestioned general manager. i truly feel this has roots all the way back to the gm search when it first became obvious that we weren't going to offer league average salary for that role. the old guard has taken offense to everything we've done since then and this attack on the new guy with his new ideas was a calculated risk to measure dundon's incompetence and to insult him at the same time. the way they felt insulted when dundon insinuated that he and his cohorts make too much money and wield too much influence.

 

[Svechhammer]

I still think Bergevin is going to feel the wrath across the league the same way the Holmgren did after he OS Weber. No, it wasn't the same torpedo to the financials that Homer pulled off but it still was screwing with another teams negotiation with its own free agent with the explicit announced intention of screwing over what he believed to be a cash strapped team. It doesn't matter that he was working off bad Intel, that should piss off other GMs and it should signal that Montreal is willing to financially screw you over to meet their needs. I would not be shocked if he's blackballed from the legit trade circles going forward and I would not be surprised if the next guy finds it difficult to deal as well. Put it this way, I don't think it's a coincidence to have seen the Flyers go from a team that missed the playoffs 7 times in their first 44 seasons to a team that has now missed it 4 of the last 7 immediately following that OS.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

And that's the point where Hurricanes put themselves into by not signing Aho earlier. It is not Aho's fault. And as Bergevin showed, it was completely acceptable for an NHL team to have that contract with Aho.

It's funny -- some people keep trying to claim that this is somehow somebody's fault, and all I hear is a prolonged farting noise.

Weirdest thing.

 

[Lempo]

It's funny -- some people keep trying to claim that this is somehow somebody's fault, and all I hear is a prolonged farting noise.

Weirdest thing.

I always loved how in WarCraft II the two-headed ogre, when annoyed by excess clicking, will fart and blame it on the other guy "He did it." "No he did it!", but when you upgrade the unit to ogre-mage they'll be "We did it!"

 

[GoCanes2015]

I get what Williams brings to the team in leadership, which is always hard to translate to on-ice benefit. But he's no spring chicken, will be another year older, and quite possibly could be a net negative on the ice compared to this past year. If we think the team was going to pay him $3mil for another year, why not pay that to a younger guy like a Boyle, Brassard or Maroon?

Willy has been great, but I worry he's past his useful life where it counts.

I'd put money on Williams coming back. Not like serious money but I'm pretty certain he wont be able to step away

 

[AD Skinner]

I get what Williams brings to the team in leadership, which is always hard to translate to on-ice benefit. But he's no spring chicken, will be another year older, and quite possibly could be a net negative on the ice compared to this past year. If we think the team was going to pay him $3mil for another year, why not pay that to a younger guy like a Boyle, Brassard or Maroon?

Willy has been great, but I worry he's past his useful life where it counts.

You may be right, but unless he waits until like the day before training camp to make his decision to return I think hes endeared himself enough to the Borg that he'll be welcomed back if he wants.

 

[NotOpie]

You may be right, but unless he waits until like the day before training camp to make his decision to return I think hes endeared himself enough to the Borg that he'll be welcomed back if he wants.

Don't look now, but Willie is likely part of the Borg...

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think the uncertainty with Williams is simple. Rod wants him as an assistant coach, but after the success of last year, he’s having a tough time moving Daniels out.

The Borg now made it possible. Letting Vellucci and Tatum go gives a landing spot for Daniels that could look like a promotion, and Willy slides into Daniels assistant coach slot. Might take another year to pull it off, but the writing is on the wall.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I think the uncertainty with Williams is simple. Rod wants him as an assistant coach, but after the success of last year, he’s having a tough time moving Daniels out.

The Borg now made it possible. Letting Vellucci and Tatum go gives a landing spot for Daniels that could look like a promotion, and Willy slides into Daniels assistant coach slot. Might take another year to pull it off, but the writing is on the walk.

The Charlotte Checkers just can't quit Jeff Daniels.

 

[AD Skinner]

Don't look now, but Willie is likely part of the Borg...

Resistance is futile.

But I just dont know about him moving into a coaching role next year. His production really hasn't started slowing down and he's played every game but 3 over the last 5 years. I wont be shocked if he does hang them up but I bet hes still too hungry.