AHL Future in Binghamton

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ek93

Registered User
Dec 28, 2014
1,664
1,187
New York
Last I knew both Albany and Hartford have valid leases through 2018/19

I'm pretty sure Hartford and NYR agreed to a one year extension in January 2016, keeping the Wolf Pack in Hartford through the 2016-17 season.

As for all the other points you brought up, I think I speak for everyone who is a fan of a smaller-market AHL team when I say that it sucks that the AHL is trending west. I miss seeing all the teams I did when I grew up, like Manchester, Portland, Norfolk, Worcester, hell even Adirondack a few years back. And it sucks for all the fans who have had their team ripped away from them. But all we can do here in Bingo is listen to what they tell us and hope for the best. And right now, that seems like the Rangers. But as you mentioned, we have been left in the dark before. We just don't want to believe that could happen again.
 

go comets

Registered User
Jul 10, 2013
3,532
1,471
The POINT I'M basing my objective opinion on, royals, is this: What economic factors have changed since 1997, to convince MSG to return to Binghamton, the same business decision they made by filling the hole left by the Whalers relocation to Carolina, what I'm trying to get you to respond to is this: Give me one reason to convince the majority here that the Rangers should be considering Binghamton now that the deal is apparently sewn up/known that Belleville has landed this Senators franchise (btw, this current Senators franchise was awarded in 1972 and spent 20 years in New Haven as the Nighthawks Before spending 1 season as the New Haven Senators, it has only been in Binghamton since 2002, after a 3-4 year stay in Charlottetown, PEI; now home to a QMJHL franchise called the Charlottetown Islanders.) Last I knew both Albany and Hartford have valid leases through 2018/19, and Albany has not been ruled out yet as a replacement via the rumor mill since Belleville has already been announced.... I just don't want to have Mitchell saying Ottawa has been cordial in securing Binghamton's next affiliation/team and then have what happened here in Portland occur there even though there were possibilities that Arizona pulled the buy card and could've exercised it instead of playing that card this offseason forcing Springfield Hockey into playing the resulting acqusition of the Pirates.

Excluding Hershey, which is a trust decree, how much longer will we see the AHL Affiliates become fully owned/operated by the parent NHL Clubs, squeezing out those like Mitchell and THE Springfield ownership.... that's the danger risk this league, its fanbases, past, and/or present franchises must decide.

Do I like this trend, No, I just don't want to see the ECHL trend that way in 20 years, either.

I would not worry about who has a contract with whom. It has been shown over and over that these AHL contracts are not worth the paper they are printed on. If a team decides it wants to move it's ahl franchise, they will move it regardless of any contracts.
 

MiamiHockey

Registered User
Sep 12, 2012
2,087
187
Why is Binghamton Rangers territory? He means most people in that area are Rangers fans. They probably are because it is the closest NHL team to Binghamton and people in that area tend to identify with NYC teams.

Why do most people want Hartford to move to Binghamton? Realize that he is talking about most people in Binghamton and the answer is obvious. He just said they are mostly Ranger fans, they want to have the Rangers farm team in their town so they can see Rangers prospects instead of Senators or Devils prospects. Those who aren't Rangers fans probably realize that having the Rangers AHL team means better attendance and therefore more likelyhood the team stays around, so they are hoping it will be the Rangers also.

The fact that most NHL teams are moving their AHL team closer to their home market doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on what Joe Hockey Fan in Binghamton wants to have happen.

The POINT I'M basing my objective opinion on, royals, is this: What economic factors have changed since 1997, to convince MSG to return to Binghamton, the same business decision they made by filling the hole left by the Whalers relocation to Carolina, what I'm trying to get you to respond to is this: Give me one reason to convince the majority here that the Rangers should be considering Binghamton now that the deal is apparently sewn up/known that Belleville has landed this Senators franchise (btw, this current Senators franchise was awarded in 1972 and spent 20 years in New Haven as the Nighthawks Before spending 1 season as the New Haven Senators, it has only been in Binghamton since 2002, after a 3-4 year stay in Charlottetown, PEI; now home to a QMJHL franchise called the Charlottetown Islanders.) Last I knew both Albany and Hartford have valid leases through 2018/19, and Albany has not been ruled out yet as a replacement via the rumor mill since Belleville has already been announced.... I just don't want to have Mitchell saying Ottawa has been cordial in securing Binghamton's next affiliation/team and then have what happened here in Portland occur there even though there were possibilities that Arizona pulled the buy card and could've exercised it instead of playing that card this offseason forcing Springfield Hockey into playing the resulting acqusition of the Pirates.

Excluding Hershey, which is a trust decree, how much longer will we see the AHL Affiliates become fully owned/operated by the parent NHL Clubs, squeezing out those like Mitchell and THE Springfield ownership.... that's the danger risk this league, its fanbases, past, and/or present franchises must decide.

By definition, all opinions are subjective, not objective. That's why they're called opinions, and not facts.

There are currently two important trends in AHL franchise ownership / locations:

1) NHL franchises buying AHL franchises.
2) NHL franchises relocating AHL franchises to be closer to the NHL parent club.

It's important to note that, despite some individuals' beliefs, neither of those trends are large-market vs. small-market. Belleville is a small market. Should the Rangers' affiliate move to Binghamton, that is a substantially smaller market than Hartford. Same goes for the Oilers moving from OKC to Bakersfield, and the Habs moving from Hamilton to Laval. Yes, teams are leaving smaller markets for larger markets, but that's because those larger markets are closer to the parent club (San Jose, San Diego, Ontario).

Both of these are the result of the salary cap. The presence of the cap means that:
(1) teams need to have a steady stream of young, inexpensive players, thus making player development more important than it was in the past, and
(2) teams need to carefully manage their NHL roster, thus making it more important to be able to quickly recall players from the AHL.

Regarding the question of Binghamton vs. Hartford ... yes, Binghamton is about 1 hour further from NYC than Hartford, but it's still easily driveable, thus making it simple for the Rangers to quickly recall a player, and thus take advantage of having their AHL franchise within close proximity.

Hutch chooses to view NHL ownership of AHL franchises as a negative. I'm not sure why, given that NHL owners are much wealthier than AHL owners, and should thus be able to support their AHL franchises more capably. More importantly, there is absolutely no evidence that the AHL is weakened by this structure. We do know that attendance is much higher than it has been in the past, and the growth of player and coaching salaries suggests that the league is getting stronger, not weaker, with greater attention being paid by NHL owners.
 

Bruins1233

Registered User
Apr 30, 2016
511
5
Just because they want the NHL doesn't mean it will ever happen.:yo:

Oh it is absurd, the only city close to Hartford's size with and NHL team in Buffalo, and the only reason Buffalo has a team is because it was grandfathered in at a time that Buffalo was as big as Dallas.
 

ckg927

Registered User
Apr 2, 2007
2,629
340
Buffalo, NY
Oh it is absurd, the only city close to Hartford's size with and NHL team in Buffalo, and the only reason Buffalo has a team is because it was grandfathered in at a time that Buffalo was as big as Dallas.

When it comes to Buffalo, you've got no clue as to what you're talking about. Buffalo tried to get an NHL team twice before(first in the 1967 expansion, and then when the Knox brothers tried to purchase the Oakland Seals and move them here). We got the Sabres in the 1970 expansion along with Vancouver. They were not "grandfathered" in by any means.

In terms of population, Buffalo hasn't been as big as Dallas is for a long time. Consider that in 1970, Buffalo had a city population of 462,768 and a metro population of 1.349 million. Dallas' population in the city ALONE in 1970 was over 844,000. And the Metroplex's population in 1970 was 2.424 million.
 

Woo Hockey

@WooHockeyNews
Jul 5, 2014
888
83
Worcester, MA
woo.hockey
http://www.howlings.net/2016/11/30/...the-end-or-a-new-beginning-for-the-xl-center/

Cantlon’s Corner can report that MSG, contractually required to notify the CRDA by December 31, 2016, will renew their option (which was at their disposal) for the fifth and final year of their deal. The Rangers will receive $1.5 million next season from Global to operate the Hartford Wolf Pack. The $1.5M is one of the highest affiliation fees in the league.

Sounds like the Wolf Pack will stay in Hartford for one more season.
 

adsfan

#164303
May 31, 2008
12,991
4,013
Milwaukee
By definition, all opinions are subjective, not objective. That's why they're called opinions, and not facts.

There are currently two important trends in AHL franchise ownership / locations:

1) NHL franchises buying AHL franchises.
2) NHL franchises relocating AHL franchises to be closer to the NHL parent club.

It's important to note that, despite some individuals' beliefs, neither of those trends are large-market vs. small-market. Belleville is a small market. Should the Rangers' affiliate move to Binghamton, that is a substantially smaller market than Hartford. Same goes for the Oilers moving from OKC to Bakersfield, and the Habs moving from Hamilton to Laval. Yes, teams are leaving smaller markets for larger markets, but that's because those larger markets are closer to the parent club (San Jose, San Diego, Ontario).

Both of these are the result of the salary cap. The presence of the cap means that:
(1) teams need to have a steady stream of young, inexpensive players, thus making player development more important than it was in the past, and
(2) teams need to carefully manage their NHL roster, thus making it more important to be able to quickly recall players from the AHL.

Regarding the question of Binghamton vs. Hartford ... yes, Binghamton is about 1 hour further from NYC than Hartford, but it's still easily driveable, thus making it simple for the Rangers to quickly recall a player, and thus take advantage of having their AHL franchise within close proximity.

Hutch chooses to view NHL ownership of AHL franchises as a negative. I'm not sure why, given that NHL owners are much wealthier than AHL owners, and should thus be able to support their AHL franchises more capably. More importantly, there is absolutely no evidence that the AHL is weakened by this structure. We do know that attendance is much higher than it has been in the past, and the growth of player and coaching salaries suggests that the league is getting stronger, not weaker, with greater attention being paid by NHL owners.

1. Seventeen of 30, up from 16 recently. Definitely a trend, but how far can it go?

2. The California 6 teams. I wonder how long they will remain in the AHL? There is definitely friction with some of the league about how many games they play on the ice, and maybe about what game they are playing off the ice. I know that I don't like it. Every team in a pro league should play the same number of games. I do look forward to seeing San Jose and Stockton.
 
Last edited:

adsfan

#164303
May 31, 2008
12,991
4,013
Milwaukee
I know. Try telling that to the delusional die-hard Whalers fans.:laugh:

You could make a point that people in that class are delusional. I don't see Hartford ever getting another NHL team; but Baltimore did get another NFL team.

I see Seattle, Quebec City and Portland ahead of them. Maybe even Houston, which is pretty far behind the other cities in terms of a potential ownership group and a place to play, thanks to Les Alexander. But that is just my opinion.
 

Bruins1233

Registered User
Apr 30, 2016
511
5
When it comes to Buffalo, you've got no clue as to what you're talking about. Buffalo tried to get an NHL team twice before(first in the 1967 expansion, and then when the Knox brothers tried to purchase the Oakland Seals and move them here). We got the Sabres in the 1970 expansion along with Vancouver. They were not "grandfathered" in by any means.

In terms of population, Buffalo hasn't been as big as Dallas is for a long time. Consider that in 1970, Buffalo had a city population of 462,768 and a metro population of 1.349 million. Dallas' population in the city ALONE in 1970 was over 844,000. And the Metroplex's population in 1970 was 2.424 million.

I'm sorry, Dallas was 70% bigger instead of 6X bigger, but by point still stands, when Buffalo was awarded the franchise, it was in absolute and relative terms, much larger than today.
 

go comets

Registered User
Jul 10, 2013
3,532
1,471
Word is now starting to leak out that it is in fact the devils going to Binghamton. Sources are Stating that the new Binghamton Devils logo has been approved....
 

zetajerk

Registered User
Jan 1, 2015
738
589
Word is now starting to leak out that it is in fact the devils going to Binghamton. Sources are Stating that the new Binghamton Devils logo has been approved....

Oh look, go comets is reporting "word" on Albany losing the AHL. Shocker.

What is the appeal of Binghamton over Albany again? And please don't say fan support. Say something that matters.
 

go comets

Registered User
Jul 10, 2013
3,532
1,471
Oh look, go comets is reporting "word" on Albany losing the AHL. Shocker.

What is the appeal of Binghamton over Albany again? And please don't say fan support. Say something that matters.

I have no clue why Binghamton is more appealing than Albany. Ask the devils. Just reporting what we are now hearing.
 

mmazz22

Registered User
Jan 24, 2010
237
62
The appeal is that the NJ Devils don't want to run a AHL team anymore. In Bng they won't have too. A local group, the group that is selling the Sens will run the team and pay NJ to lease the franchise.
 

royals119

Registered User
Jun 12, 2006
1,457
1,139
West Lawn, PA
I was thinking more of on the lines of April 1st, 2017.
That seems kind of late. The group in Bingo is certainly going to try to retain their season ticket holders, sponsors, and corporate accounts. Most of those folks would want to know early in the year so they can budget for it. If they don't announce until April some of the corporations would likely have already allocated marketing funds elsewhere, and "regular" season ticket holders will have a much shorter window to pay for their tickets. Many teams are moving to a 10, or even 12, month billing cycle.
 

BTV

Registered User
Oct 12, 2005
191
7
Lewiston, Maine
That seems kind of late. The group in Bingo is certainly going to try to retain their season ticket holders, sponsors, and corporate accounts. Most of those folks would want to know early in the year so they can budget for it. If they don't announce until April some of the corporations would likely have already allocated marketing funds elsewhere, and "regular" season ticket holders will have a much shorter window to pay for their tickets. Many teams are moving to a 10, or even 12, month billing cycle.

I think you just got "April Fooled" in December...
 

mmazz22

Registered User
Jan 24, 2010
237
62
210 the deal doesn't matter. The NJ Devils DO NOT want to run a team anymore. The Bing group will lease the franchise. That is why this is happening. It has nothing to do with a lease deal or the appeal of Bing over Albany ,it is simply NJ not having to run a AHL team and a local group paying them whatever the cost is to lease a team for 6 years.
 

mmazz22

Registered User
Jan 24, 2010
237
62
There is also no way this is announced in April. The local guys have got to sell seasons for next year and you can't sell them with this "phantom" team coming. The fans and corporate sponsors want for sure's. Plus attendance has been dismal here and the earlier the announcement happens the better for the team this year at the gate.
 

royals119

Registered User
Jun 12, 2006
1,457
1,139
West Lawn, PA
I think you just got "April Fooled" in December...
Wow, I did! Even after reading your post it took me a few minutes to get it.

Hopefully the fans in Bingo aren't being lied to by the current owners. That would really burn some bridges, even for a different group that might try to bring in an ECHL team in the future.
 

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