Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXXI -- Will we even care by July 1?

[Caps8112]

People can blame Ovy - but what about Eller? Carlson? Orpik? Holtby? Alzner???

A lot of players have played GOD AWFUL for us and way underachieved. Ovi hasn't been great, but he has done a lot more than a lot of the players that completely fell flat on their face AGAIN these playoffs.

do you realize how far our expectations for Ovi have fallen. I know hes old but he is borderline useless right now. Yes all those guys listed above have been terrible (especially Holtby Imo) but carlson was the only other one that should be relied upon to make a more then significant impact. Eller is a role player and one I didnt want to begin with. Orpik is Orpik we knew what he would be by now. Alzner who knows. we just keep dumbing down what we expect to see from ovi while the truth is he is too slow for any rushes and hasnt had that touch in the goal scoring departmen.

 

[Roughing]

We can't score. At all. It's always been the problem. Holtby has been ****ing bad but it's been enough to win. All the hot goalie, bad luck, and other excuses are bull****. Always have been. I've never seen a team not be able to finish like this one. We win the series if we can score around 4 goals a game but there's zero hope of this team scoring like that consistently. Dominated play, again, because we're the better team, except, you know, we can't score. We score two in most of our playoff games. There weren't a bunch of great saves either. That's also bull****. Williams breaks in and shoots low directly into the glove. Eller breaks in and shoots directly into a pad on the ice. Both of those are easy goals if they just elevate the damn puck. There are plenty of other examples this series, including the times they didn't shoot at all. Of course, they shoot into the chest constantly, too. It's pitiful.

We barely beat Toronto and can't get around the Pens minus Crosby, Letang, and Murray. Jake Guentzel has 8 goals for the Pens. Eight. Nobody steps up for the Caps. Break it up. It's over. I'm done hearing Ovechkin and others say loser garbage like this: "I have to play much better, get more involved in the game". Meanwhile Nashville, with the coach I begged for and the scoring F we need, is going to the Conference finals. Makes me want to puke.

 

[twabby]

I'm not willing to entertain thoughts of a rebuild until the postseason is officially over for the Capitals, but I think they need to consider protecting Nate Schmidt in the expansion draft. He's exactly the type of young, low-cost, effective player the Capitals need to consider keeping if they are aiming for a re-tool or rebuild. They can't let a player like him slip away to Vegas.

 

[Raikkonen]

I'm not willing to entertain thoughts of a rebuild until the postseason is officially over for the Capitals, but I think they need to consider protecting Nate Schmidt in the expansion draft. He's exactly the type of young, low-cost, effective player the Capitals need to consider keeping if they are aiming for a re-tool or rebuild. They can't let a player like him slip away to Vegas.

Wrap your hands around the reality.

Schmidt is not going to be protected over Niskanen, Carlson and Orlov.

 

[twabby]

Wrap your hands around the reality.

Schmidt is not going to be protected over Niskanen, Carlson and Orlov.

I'm making a case for what I think should be done, not making a case for what is likely to happen.

 

[txpd]

I'm making a case for what I think should be done, not making a case for what is likely to happen.

Let me guess. You would keep Schmidt over Carlson. That's dumb. But ok

 

[artilector]

I think I'd still (reluctantly) keep Carlson over Schmidt. But I am not sure about (Schmidt + return for Carlson + losing Grubauer to Vegas)
vs.
(Carlson + losing Schmidt to Vegas).

Depends on the return.

It would be a coup for the Caps to make some sort of a deal with Vegas to keep Schmidt.

 

[FloridaCap]

Schmidt has had an excellent playoffs and a pretty good season, combined with Carlson not having that great of a season ... and I think the decision is still an absolute no-brainer. You simply don't get rid of Carlson for Schmidt. That's asinine.

Even trading Carlson for stuff and keeping Schmidt would be a net-minus I believe, over just keeping Carlson and letting Schmidt get stolen from us.


With that said, anyone think it's ridiculous how you can only protect 3D? Vegas gets their pick of every 4D in the league? 6x #4Ds is a pretty damn good d-core. That's ridiculous.

 

[artilector]

The other can of worms is potentially Holtby vs. Grubauer.

If it came down to it, which one you'd keep:
Holtby + losing Oshie/MJ (to get under the cap)
vs.
Grubauer + return for Holtby + enough cap space to keep Oshie/MJ

I think I'd be leaning towards the Grubauer option. Don't think I want the Caps to pay the goalie 6M, during a cap crunch, given that much uncertainty in his playoff performance. For a team looking for a good goalie to take them to playoffs, sure, Holtby is excellent.

But realistically, this is an admittedly remote possibility. I guess we'll see how desperate BMac gets if we get another flame-out.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

We can't score. At all. It's always been the problem. Holtby has been ****ing bad but it's been enough to win. All the hot goalie, bad luck, and other excuses are bull****. Always have been. I've never seen a team not be able to finish like this one. We win the series if we can score around 4 goals a game but there's zero hope of this team scoring like that consistently. Dominated play, again, because we're the better team, except, you know, we can't score. We score two in most of our playoff games. There weren't a bunch of great saves either. That's also bull****. Williams breaks in and shoots low directly into the glove. Eller breaks in and shoots directly into a pad on the ice. Both of those are easy goals if they just elevate the damn puck. There are plenty of other examples this series, including the times they didn't shoot at all. Of course, they shoot into the chest constantly, too. It's pitiful.

We barely beat Toronto and can't get around the Pens minus Crosby, Letang, and Murray. Jake Guentzel has 8 goals for the Pens. Eight. Nobody steps up for the Caps. Break it up. It's over. I'm done hearing Ovechkin and others say loser garbage like this: "I have to play much better, get more involved in the game". Meanwhile Nashville, with the coach I begged for and the scoring F we need, is going to the Conference finals. Makes me want to puke.

Sorry, but you're wrong here. Holtby has had a save percentage under .890 for 50% of the post-season games. Without the offense bailing him out, Holtby's play gets the Caps eliminated in R1.

I agree they need to finish better, but saying Holtby has played well enough for them to win is wildly inaccurate.

 

[FloridaCap]

The other can of worms is potentially Holtby vs. Grubauer.

If it came down to it, which one you'd keep:
Holtby + losing Oshie/MJ (to get under the cap)
vs.
Grubauer + return for Holtby + enough cap space to keep Oshie/MJ

I think I'd be leaning towards the Grubauer option. Don't think I want the Caps to pay the goalie 6M, during a cap crunch, given that much uncertainty in his playoff performance. For a team looking for a good goalie to take them to playoffs, sure, Holtby is excellent.

But realistically, this is an admittedly remote possibility. I guess we'll see how desperate BMac gets if we get another flame-out.

Even more of a stretch. Grubauer isn't even that good. I'm surprised people think he's the de-facto 1G for Vegas.

With our skill guys getting older, we're going to see even more of an emphasis on defense. You absolutely cannot ditch a Vezina winner in favor of a complete question mark in net. Only time I can see us moving on from Holtby is in a handful of years when Samsonov is ready.

 

[artilector]

Schmidt has had an excellent playoffs and a pretty good season, combined with Carlson not having that great of a season ... and I think the decision is still an absolute no-brainer. You simply don't get rid of Carlson for Schmidt. That's asinine.

Even trading Carlson for stuff and keeping Schmidt would be a net-minus I believe, over just keeping Carlson and letting Schmidt get stolen from us.


With that said, anyone think it's ridiculous how you can only protect 3D? Vegas gets their pick of every 4D in the league? 6x #4Ds is a pretty damn good d-core. That's ridiculous.

Cynically, that's part of what Vegas is paying owners tens of millions of dollars for.

 

[artilector]

Even more of a stretch. Grubauer isn't even that good. I'm surprised people think he's the de-facto 1G for Vegas.

With our skill guys getting older, we're going to see even more of an emphasis on defense. You absolutely cannot ditch a Vezina winner in favor of a complete question mark in net. Only time I can see us moving on from Holtby is in a handful of years when Samsonov is ready.

Shrug.

Holtby hasn't been Vezina in playoffs since, like, the Boston series. And the current playoff run moves him to question mark territory.

One for one, I'd still keep Holtby. But I think the other stuff (cap space, return) closes the gap.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The other can of worms is potentially Holtby vs. Grubauer.

If it came down to it, which one you'd keep:
Holtby + losing Oshie/MJ (to get under the cap)
vs.
Grubauer + return for Holtby + enough cap space to keep Oshie/MJ

I think I'd be leaning towards the Grubauer option. Don't think I want the Caps to pay the goalie 6M, during a cap crunch, given that much uncertainty in his playoff performance. For a team looking for a good goalie to take them to playoffs, sure, Holtby is excellent.

But realistically, this is an admittedly remote possibility. I guess we'll see how desperate BMac gets if we get another flame-out.

Right now, I'd be inclined to keep neither, but if we're talking rebuild, why not suck with Gruby and recoup valuable assets with the other guy?

 

[FloridaCap]

Shrug.

Holtby hasn't been Vezina in playoffs since, like, the Boston series. And the current playoff run moves him to question mark territory.

One for one, I'd still keep Holtby. But I think the other stuff (cap space, return) closes the gap.

He had a terrible series vs Toronto for his standards and still put up a .925. He had a .944 last year in the playoffs and a .942 the year before.

I was someone who used to **** on Holtby all the time, preferring Neuvy because he seemed to be the cooler, steady-eddie. I was wrong, and I admitted it, and I'm still naturally hard on Holtby. He's been dog **** this series. But Grubauer? no way.

All this rebuild talk is wishful thinking. They aren't going to rebuild. You don't rebuild a back-to-back President's Trophy team, you just don't. We are going to lose some players this summer, you replace them with younger talent, and you make another run.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Letting it rot away....that's the Caps way. There will be no rebuild unless Ovy begs out or goes back to Russia early.

 

[artilector]

He had a terrible series vs Toronto for his standards and still put up a .925. He had a .944 last year in the playoffs and a .942 the year before.

I was someone who used to **** on Holtby all the time, preferring Neuvy because he seemed to be the cooler, steady-eddie. I was wrong, and I admitted it, and I'm still naturally hard on Holtby. He's been dog **** this series. But Grubauer? no way.

All this rebuild talk is wishful thinking. They aren't going to rebuild. You don't rebuild a back-to-back President's Trophy team, you just don't. We are going to lose some players this summer, you replace them with younger talent, and you make another run.

So what -- most talk about future roster moves ends up being wishful thinking. But it's still useful because it opens up discussion about the real strengths and weaknesses of the team. If we really stick to reality, might as well close this thread, and open up another one titled "What do you think GM will actually do" -- and in that thread I will agree that GM will keep Carlson, Holtby, Trotz, etc

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

The other thing to mention here, assuming this series ends in a loss, is what impact does it have on free agents, both our own and those coming from other teams? Will people require more money to come here or just cross WSH off the list altogether knowing the history of underperforming and the pressure / scrutiny they're going to face in the post season, and the underlying fact that the core is aging and getting worse? Will some of our own FAs just say, "**** this, I'm out," to give themselves a fresh start?

 

[FloridaCap]

The other thing to mention here, assuming this series ends in a loss, is what impact does it have on free agents, both our own and those coming from other teams? Will people require more money to come here or just cross WSH off the list altogether knowing the history of underperforming and the pressure / scrutiny they're going to face in the post season, and the underlying fact that the core is aging and getting worse? Will some of our own FAs just say, "**** this, I'm out," to give themselves a fresh start?

Has anyone ever given the Caps a "Good Team Discount"?

You pay the most, you get the player. Bottom line is the Caps are still a successful team even with no Cups, compared to 95% of the teams in the league right now.

 

[artilector]

The other thing to mention here, assuming this series ends in a loss, is what impact does it have on free agents, both our own and those coming from other teams? Will people require more money to come here or just cross WSH off the list altogether knowing the history of underperforming and the pressure / scrutiny they're going to face in the post season, and the underlying fact that the core is aging and getting worse? Will some of our own FAs just say, "**** this, I'm out," to give themselves a fresh start?

I don't know, I suspect "the 2nd round curse" doesn't affect potential FAs that much. These are generally confident dudes, they probably think -- "If I am on that team, I'll fix it!"

Sure, they might be more willing to join championship teams -- but there are not that many of those around, and space is limited. For instance, given how Chicago crashed this year, are they that much more desirable of a destination? Meh.

 

[PB12]

I'd look to keep Oshie and get 2 new linemates for Kuzy. I don't want Mojo and Kuzy on the same line unless its on the PP. Find 2 guys who will shoot it. And its not even for the regular season. When the playoffs start, so does the stuff you did in the season. Split them up, put Mojo on line 3.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Also, the FA class this year is awful.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Also, the FA class this year is awful.

Championship!

 

[twabby]

Schmidt has had an excellent playoffs and a pretty good season, combined with Carlson not having that great of a season ... and I think the decision is still an absolute no-brainer. You simply don't get rid of Carlson for Schmidt. That's asinine.

Even trading Carlson for stuff and keeping Schmidt would be a net-minus I believe, over just keeping Carlson and letting Schmidt get stolen from us.


With that said, anyone think it's ridiculous how you can only protect 3D? Vegas gets their pick of every 4D in the league? 6x #4Ds is a pretty damn good d-core. That's ridiculous.

If Carlson were already signed to a long-term team-friendly deal the discussion about him vs. Schmidt is different.

But he isn't. He's a UFA next season and he's going to command a lot of money. Are people really comfortable giving Carlson $6+ million a year for 6+ years, especially given his most recent two seasons and perhaps some sort of chronic injury scenario? Are people really certain that he isn't going to test the UFA market? Losing Carlson after next season to free-agency and losing Schmidt to Vegas is a disastrous scenario. If they protect Carlson then they better have a deal in place and signed before the start of 2017-18 and it better be a team-friendly deal.

Meanwhile Schmidt is a cost-controlled RFA and has grown a tremendous amount this season and has the speed to be competitive in the new NHL. The return for trading Carlson is likely to be substantial because he plays probably the second most coveted position in the NHL (right D) and he's on a salary-cap friendly deal for another year that would be attractive to contenders. If he can return a good young forward or a blue-chip prospect then the Capitals should absolutely consider it IMO. Defense would still be a position of strength with Niskanen, Orlov, and Schmidt. They badly need some good young forwards.

 

[FloridaCap]

Also, the FA class this year is awful.

lol, we have 4 of the top 8 FAs. Nice.