Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXVIII (It's Working! Let's Fix It.)

[BobRouse]

Eller for Chimera and Connolly for Richards is a major upgrade? As a team we haven't really changed that much.

ummmmm....YEAH!!!

Eller>>>>>Chimera
Connolly>>>>Richards

 

[twabby]

Eller for Chimera and Connolly for Richards is a major upgrade? As a team we haven't really changed that much.

Yes.

Why are Eller's contributions continually minimized? He's solidified a third line that was a major problem last season. Burakovsky and Connolly have helped, but Eller has turned the sub-50% possession third line of last season into the team's most consistent driving force this season.

 

[RandyHolt]

Why would they talk about their system to the press? If the press can't detect it that doesn't mean it isn't happening. For all they know they're just "playing better" and "going to the net" and "shooting more" and "moving their feet"...

Well said. Hockey talk is just that. A bunch of cliches we have all heard a million times. I have rarely (closer to never) heard systems spoken about at length nor in detail, in my illustrious 'spectation career. Even when they do speak of something, the game is so dynamic, you don't consistently nor easily see it. The opposition is trying to stuff it as priority 1 every night.

This is one of the few times we have seen a clear shift. Bruce hunkering was another notable can't miss. Perhaps former players do not delve deeply into system details for it breaks the code they remember from being a player. May may lose locker room access if he tells too much.

One of the deeper discussions I ever heard was about the left wing lock. I do like that JoeB speaks of the weave. You know he knows more.

Comparison. Look at American football. Does the media (former players) ever talk about what defensive schemes the Redskins run? We are lucky to hear "they go 3-4 on first down, and then a lot of 4-2-5". That's it. They never talk about if we 1 gap or 2 gap our nose, never speak of DL techniques 3 5 7 etc, don't talk about if we are in cover 2, cover 3, etc, press man, bump and run, or what % of the time we do them. There is only 16 games and ~ 960 minutes of TOI in a full season.

We should try to compile a chart of the names of the systems hockey teams employ. Wait, we dont even know what our system is named. I propose Funnel-n-Weave, or The Weave since JoeB says it. We funnel to the net on the rush Dmen included, and then weave around the offensive zone in a somewhat of a finnish 5 approach, still driving to the net without the puck. Or, we can call it Grindless.

 

[txpd]

Groupthink? I've seen the changes with my own eyes, noted elements as they evolved, and I've described them in detail. It's more than just activating the D. It's fine if you don't see it or believe a bunch of internet posters.

Ive seen changes, but we know that Trotz does a hockey season like a 80 game program. My view is that the program has been to evolve the team gradually and what you see from the defense being increasingly involved in the offensive zone weave and cycle is part of that program. I doubt that is the end of the evolution either.

 

[Carlzner]

Pretty sure May and Locker do since it's their job to discuss those things.

I have witnessed Alan May discussing it multiple times over the last few weeks during Intermission.

 

[RandyHolt]

I have an internal 20 minute clock from being a hockey fan. I skip intermission and often change the channel back and without trying catch the opening faceoff. I wonder how many intermissions I have been subjected to... I would say about 5000+.

 

[g00n]

This is what I've observed:

old: keep it up the boards/perimeter on the breakout
new: take it up the middle as much as possible

old: stick to set lanes/positions
new: find the nearby gap to support your player/triangle

old: 1-2 man forecheck, maybe
new: 2-3 man forecheck as much as possible

old: dump and chase to try and pin d-men deep
new: carry the puck in with speed, create a rush opportunity

old: grind it out on the wall, wear them down
new: weave and shoot, go to the net

old: kickout from low to high for perimeter shot, maybe one guy near the net
new: everyone shooting from almost everywhere, lots of net pressure and deflection chances

old: defense first, conservative choices preferred
new: take more chances to create offense

old: cookie cutter approach to creating a team full of identical 2-way players
new: let the players take advantage of their individual talents more

old: 2 d-men high at all times ready to get back or fling the puck deep
new: nearly any d-man activates to crease or even behind the net, high forward covers while another forward may float high to add a release valve in the highs slot

old: long outlet pass breakout from stationary d-men to neutral zone forwards filling lanes
new: d-men look for nearest supporting teammate who's finding space and/or they skate out as far as they can

old: coin flip hockey, score a few goals and turtle
new: pour it on for 60 minutes


Imo this is a significant number of noticeable changes. I really don't care what anyone calls it, it's making a difference. So feel free to add

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

This is what I've observed:

old: keep it up the boards/perimeter on the breakout
new: take it up the middle as much as possible

old: stick to set lanes/positions
new: find the nearby gap to support your player/triangle

old: 1-2 man forecheck, maybe
new: 2-3 man forecheck as much as possible

old: dump and chase to try and pin d-men deep
new: carry the puck in with speed, create a rush opportunity

old: grind it out on the wall, wear them down
new: weave and shoot, go to the net

old: kickout from low to high for perimeter shot, maybe one guy near the net
new: everyone shooting from almost everywhere, lots of net pressure and deflection chances

old: defense first, conservative choices preferred
new: take more chances to create offense

old: cookie cutter approach to creating a team full of identical 2-way players
new: let the players take advantage of their individual talents more

old: 2 d-men high at all times ready to get back or fling the puck deep
new: nearly any d-man activates to crease or even behind the net, high forward covers while another forward may float high to add a release valve in the highs slot

old: long outlet pass breakout from stationary d-men to neutral zone forwards filling lanes
new: d-men look for nearest supporting teammate who's finding space and/or they skate out as far as they can

old: coin flip hockey, score a few goals and turtle
new: pour it on for 60 minutes


Imo this is a significant number of noticeable changes. I really don't care what anyone calls it, it's making a difference. So feel free to add

Great post!
I'd like to add one thing. Even defensemen can serve as a net front presence in the offensive zone. I never thought I'd see Alzner screen a goalie for Kuzy and it happened the other night against Carolina.

CCF, this is more than just tweaks here and there right? I call that a system overhaul. Call it what you want, but the overall change in this team is undeniable. All the best teams in the league push the play up the ice, there was no reason for us to score 2-3 goals and sit back for the rest of the game like we did last year.

 

[SpinningEdge]

And in the past the years we HAVE made big TDL moves things didn't work out so well either.

Dino/Rouse for Gartner/Murphy ALSO Malarchuk for Johansson- we were leading Patrick division at time of trade and won the Patrick division. End result? 1st round exit (It wasn't until the next year that this trade paid dividends)

Oates/Tocchet/Ranford for Allison/Carter/Carey - missed playoffs

Zednik/Bulis for Zubrus/Linden - We were on a 6 or 7 game winning streak. We finished the season losing 6 of 7. End result - 1st round exit


To act like a "BIG SPLASH" increases chances of success is intellectually dishonest.

Fact is it has a lot more to do with luck/team chemistry/getting hot at the right time and NONE of these things are resolved with a big splash.


It takes time for players to acclimate. Just look at the difference in Winnik from the stretch last year to this year. Look at Eller/Connolly at the beginning of this year to now.

None of this was in Ovi's prime

 

[g00n]

Great post!
I'd like to add one thing. Even defensemen can serve as a net front presence in the offensive zone. I never thought I'd see Alzner screen a goalie for Kuzy and it happened the other night against Carolina.

CCF, this is more than just tweaks here and there right? I call that a system overhaul. Call it what you want, but the overall change in this team is undeniable. All the best teams in the league push the play up the ice, there was no reason for us to score 2-3 goals and sit back for the rest of the game like we did last year.

I tried to cover that with this one

old: 2 d-men high at all times ready to get back or fling the puck deep
new: nearly any d-man activates to crease or even behind the net, high forward covers while another forward may float high to add a release valve in the highs slot


I know I'm forgetting a few things, though

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I have witnessed Alan May discussing it multiple times over the last few weeks during Intermission.

Discussing a complete system change? Have a clip? I've never once seen that discussed. I've been paying close attention to the post game show the last few weeks and zero has been mentioned of any significant system change.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Great post!
I'd like to add one thing. Even defensemen can serve as a net front presence in the offensive zone. I never thought I'd see Alzner screen a goalie for Kuzy and it happened the other night against Carolina.

CCF, this is more than just tweaks here and there right? I call that a system overhaul. Call it what you want, but the overall change in this team is undeniable. All the best teams in the league push the play up the ice, there was no reason for us to score 2-3 goals and sit back for the rest of the game like we did last year.

Over more than half a season, as TXPD said, its more of an evolvement of the team style, imo that you see pretty much every year (not these specific changes each year, but some of these, sometimes others).

Like I said you system change believers better hope it's not as simple as figuring the system out. If it's as simple as coming up with a defense for it in the playoffs, we're done.

 

[g00n]

Over more than half a season, as TXPD said, its more of an evolvement of the team style, imo that you see pretty much every year (not these specific changes each year, but some of these, sometimes others).

Like I said you system change believers better hope it's not as simple as figuring the system out. If it's as simple as coming up with a defense for it in the playoffs, we're done.

This change took place throughout December after Holtby called them out, after the player's meeting, after the stuff E4K noted at their practice when he was there taking notes. This is when Kuz started to heat up and we debated whether it was just him or it was him playing within a structure he could riff off of because guys were doing their jobs better. Before that they didn't seem to be adding anything for 2 months and they were a bubble team. I didn't see anything evolving gradually before that.

It's very possible the team decided how they wanted to play rather than some Trotz master plan kicking in. Has Trotz ever had a team play this style before?

 

[Jags]

You've got to be kidding me. This is the era of sports over-analysis. This is all some big secret everyone in the press knows about but nobody is talking, or they're too dumb to see changes? May and Locker are plenty knowledgeable to be discussing such a HUGE thing that has seemingly righted the ship in DC.

You've tried making this point before... You do realize that all of these people basically work for the organization, right? CSNMA and Monumental Sports are equity partners. And even to the extent that they're "independent," they're working in a franchise-dependent market. Laughlin and May are no more likely to criticize or expose anything Caps-related than Walton or Vogel, who couldn't be more employed by Leonsis.

I'm not saying that there's any hushed conspiracies going on, but in a sports market as thinly focused on hockey as DC is, you're not going to find much in the way of deep, incisive, critical coverage.

"What about the Washington post?"

The main Post sports crew obviously couldn't care less about hockey and don't know much about it. The best you can hope for is the occasional Caps-related thinkpiece from Greenberg, and that's not saying a lot.

And the beat writers either aspire to something far greater than NHL coverage in DC and/or would happily settle for a move to CSNMA (like El-Bashir), which might make their motives and journalistic integrity a little suspect.

I think you're expecting a little much from a collection of good-natured homers who know where their money comes from.

 

[Holtbyisms]

Gruby is so serious. He never smiles or laughs. He's like Batman and Holtby is the Joker.

 

[Jags]

None of this was in Ovi's prime

You and I have had this discussion a dozen times or more, so rather than re-hash all that, I figured I'd try to get your thoughts on...

* Continuity. People don't talk about this enough in sports, and your "WE NEED TO MAKE MID-SEASON MOVES" schtick definitely falls into this category. Yes, Pittsburgh made moves last year, but they also have at their core a bunch of players that know each other really, really well. There's no denying the skill of that core, but there's also no substitute for the shorthand that develops between players that have a chance to evolve together and adapt to one another.

You simply cannot ignore the progress the Caps have made this year in passing alone. WAY more fast, one-touch, accurate passes. Better leads, outlets, and transition play that come in large part from anticipation and familiarity.

We have a very talented roster with coaching that started pretty great and has gotten progressively better over the last 3 years. There's something to be said for not disrupting that progress. Continuity is important.

* Hindsight. A healthy portion of the moves you've mentioned the last couple years fall into two categories:

1. The ones you cherry-pick because they worked out really well, and...
2. Moves that really seemed inconsequential at the time that ended up surprising everyone because of unexpected chemistry and/or guys just playing WAY better than they had in years (or ever).

Those things require hindsight. Lots of trades that feel like they should be major end up making no discernible difference or sucking outright. You'll argue that that's what a "good GM" is for, but the truth is most TDL trades are crap-shoots. You typically give up something very substantial regardless, and with a league-leading team you're just as likely to screw something up as you are to help.

Someone like Vanek might really help us. And he might come here and turtle or not fit in, and either ride the bench or have a negative effect. The only thing you know for sure is it'll cost.

 

[g00n]

You've tried making this point before... You do realize that all of these people basically work for the organization, right? CSNMA and Monumental Sports are equity partners. And even to the extent that they're "independent," they're working in a franchise-dependent market. Laughlin and May are no more likely to criticize or expose anything Caps-related than Walton or Vogel, who couldn't be more employed by Leonsis.

I'm not saying that there's any hushed conspiracies going on, but in a sports market as thinly focused on hockey as DC is, you're not going to find much in the way of deep, incisive, critical coverage.

"What about the Washington post?"

The main Post sports crew obviously couldn't care less about hockey and don't know much about it. The best you can hope for is the occasional Caps-related thinkpiece from Greenberg, and that's not saying a lot.

And the beat writers either aspire to something far greater than NHL coverage in DC and/or would happily settle for a move to CSNMA (like El-Bashir), which might make their motives and journalistic integrity a little suspect.

I think you're expecting a little much from a collection of good-natured homers who know where their money comes from.

I mean, just look at these twitter questions they always throw out. It's all begging the question hype such as "What do you love most about the Capitals?" They hired Locker's daughter to Emcee social media crap and now she's a full-fledged analyst. How in-depth are they trying to be?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

If there's one thing I'm certain of it's that's Jags is verbose. And I guess all our media people are idiots. Not the most imaginative conspiracy theory but ok, if that's yours it's certainly convenient.

 

[Portable Mink]

lots more short quick passes.
thats how you create space.
thats how you create breakdowns, draw penalties, keep zone time, keep skating.

when any team is playing at their best, they are doing this. its a human element that comes from confidence.

 

[SpinningEdge]

Notice when all those moves were made?? Offseason.

Offseason moves are every bit as good (if not MUCH better) than TDL moves. Costs less, more time for players to get acclimated etc

Caps made their major TDL moves already.

I disagree.

Our history repeating itself proves that - and it's a reason the teams that have all won multiple cups over most of the last decade are always aggressive and trying to improve during playoffs pushes going into the postseason.

IMO the Caps front office thinks they're so good because they create such deep teams and are so obsessed with doing things THEIR WAY.... and it's effecting them of ever getting better. Seriously, the moves the Caps make are all super predictable and they do the saaaaame thing during every regular season.

 

[Jags]

Our history repeating itself proves that

This is another point. You're hanging onto history that just isn't all that relevant anymore.

This team with this coach has only been together 3 years. The team has improved each of those years. There isn't a guy on the roster you can't say was markedly better two years ago than they are today. Management has addressed weaknesses pretty profoundly each of those three seasons. Coaching has ticked up recently, too; showing they can identify and address shortcomings in-house with appropriate personnel and systems changes.

What the Caps did or didn't do with different personnel for different coaches and management 3 or 5 or 11 years ago has no meaningful effect on what this team is doing today.

We, as fans, get mired in that history. Of course we do. It's been frustrating. But pretending that it somehow jinxes us today like some spooky curse of doom? Let it go.

Just out of curiosity, what would you do if you were MacLellan? Give us a genuine, possible example of a move that would fit the bill for you.

 

[SpinningEdge]

This is another point. You're hanging onto history that just isn't all that relevant anymore.

This team with this coach has only been together 3 years. The team has improved each of those years. There isn't a guy on the roster you can't say was markedly better two years ago than they are today. Management has addressed weaknesses pretty profoundly each of those three seasons. Coaching has ticked up recently, too; showing they can identify and address shortcomings in-house with appropriate personnel and systems changes.

What the Caps did or didn't do with different personnel for different coaches and management 3 or 5 or 11 years ago has no meaningful effect on what this team is doing today.

We, as fans, get mired in that history. Of course we do. It's been frustrating. But pretending that it somehow jinxes us today like some spooky curse of doom? Let it go.

Just out of curiosity, what would you do if you were MacLellan? Give us a genuine, possible example of a move that would fit the bill for you.

I'd try to move bottom 6 plYers that are most likely NOT going to produce at all or much for more contributing players. This means Wilson, Eller, Connolly, Schmidt, and Orpik would all be available - and to get a great return id have Samsonov, our first rd pick Johanson, our current first rd pick, etc all as add one to make a deal worth it.

Schmidt is fine - but a guy like Shattenkirk is better. I'd do L Johansson + Schmidt for Shattrnkirk all day.

Wilson helps on PK but preventing goals isn't Caps issue - it's depth scoring. I'd trade him and a first rd pick and even Samsonov for someone like Duchene.

I'm not saying Col/StL do these deals I'm just giving examples.

Also, how can you keep saying we are better? Last year we literally got owned in the playoffs & Pitt dominating styler of play/possession/scheme after Caps being super hot first half of the year.

Last year at this time everyone as saying same **** they were now. Then we stumbled and didn't play very well going into postseason and did what we always do... avg line 2 goals in playoffs and get zero depth scoring because they have guys like Beagle and Richards centering half the damn lines. You're not getting any scoring production with that.

Now we have Eller who may have good possession - but he has 15 points in like 50 games - and Beagle still centering the other line. It's a concern.

I don't think a caps third or fourth line can still contribute significantly enough if a team decided to just try to contain our top 2 lines to win multiple series in a row.

Oh, third line a few years ago was Chimera, Ward, and Fehr - arguable the best third line in hockey. Know who was fourth line?? Beagle and Wilson and someone random. Last year they tried adding Richards ansnour third line and fourth lines did squat in playoffs... so now we have just tried to make a third line good again.

Basically - Trotz and GMBM are saying it's only best to do off-season moves - which yes, gets you a more prepared player in a system, etc.... but it still doesn't make sense bc if you flip a shattenkirk for Schmidt + or Wilson + for Duchene (or some type of deal like that) you're a better team regardless because you're just adding wayyyy better talent. Hell, Pittsburgh fired a coach and changed a system completely and mid season went on a cup run. Why? They put their roster in a position to best succeed and they made aggressive moves to add a lot of talent. Caps never even try this.

At least Trotz/GMBM are being honest about it. Before people would question me and say "how do you know caps aren't trying to get deals done" and I'd have to say it's because they never do it ever and just fill their roster with depth or bench guys. It's been years of this. Now at least I know I'm right about this and know GMBM sits on his ass and only works half the year - the offseason. No trades worth a **** and no signings ever during season. It's nice he does a good job may - October - but the GMs who actually win cups are gm'ing 12 months out of the year.

The only thing that could remotely make me happy with this no extensions of players until end of contracts/doing jack **** for six months of year once season starts is if dick/Ted have a ton of pressure on GMBM and told him this year with all the contracts, etc NOW is the window - and if he can't prove he's better than GMBM after three years he's out and a new gm can come in and have very few contracts on the books and can build the team their way. If I found out dick/ted were ones preventing any moves for GMBM to do (just in case he fails again and Caps once again only are a first half team) so a possible new gm can have as much freedom/cap/few contracts on books to work with I'd understand... but that seems far fetched.

GMBM has done a amazing job in off-season a having caps play awesome first few months. He really does put together a roster for "start of season!". Too bad cups aren't won in December and January though..... we need someone doing more/improving the team for second half of season as well. Not standing back and tappinf themselves on the back and doing nothing because they did ohhhh soooo goood first 40-60 games.

 

[Sam Spade]

Also, how can you keep saying we are better? Last year we literally got owned in the playoffs & Pitt dominating styler of play/possession/scheme after Caps being super hot first half of the year.

What series against the Pens did you watch?

 

[SpinningEdge]

What series against the Pens did you watch?

The one where Pitt had outshot us in 4 of the 6 games and 3 of those games Pitt outshot us by 10+ shots. It was obvious we were having trouble with their style.

 

[RandyHolt]

Since Kuz was always at the root of the debates where I alleged the Trotz Post blizzard system change was a horrible fit for him, and that he didn't forget how to play offense....

Old: Kuz with the puck entering the zone, constrained like a cat in a shoe-box, as he bypassed creating scoring opportunities using his all world skill set, knowing the prime directive was to get the puck to "safety" behind the net, slow the game down, grind down defensemen to tire them out for easy goals later in the shift or game. Kuz used like a prototypical NA Grinder.

New: Kuz with the puck looking like an all star trying to set up his teammates for goals at every opportunity, featuring his creative passing and great shot. Kuz used to his strengths looking more like the total stud that we drafted.

One thing I have never seen discussed about Barry's old system. Our guys were behind their net a ton. Like all game long. When it inevitably came time to play defense again, they were literally as far away from our goal as they could be, supporting Holts. And tired to boot, from trying to tire out defensemen, while somehow not tiring themselves out.