Player Discussion Aatu Raty

[SeawaterOnIce]

There was a guy that used to play for the Canucks that a lot of people said had 2/3C upside, but really needed to work on his skating. Can't remember what his name is... Hopefully Raty digs deep into Canucks lore and gets inspiration from old whats-his-name and turns into a good skater! What the hell was that guys name again?

Jared McCann.

 

[PredsForPresidents]

There was a guy that used to play for the Canucks that a lot of people said had 2/3C upside, but really needed to work on his skating. Can't remember what his name is... Hopefully Raty digs deep into Canucks lore and gets inspiration from old whats-his-name and turns into a good skater! What the hell was that guys name again?

I thought Raty had good wheels already? I keep seeing mixed reports

 

[F A N]

To be clear, I’m not saying I don’t like Raty it that he isn’t useful. He’s instantly the best C prospect in the system by a mile.

I just don’t view him as a 2C and think he projects more as a bottom-6 type. And as the premium young asset coming back for a player of Horvat’s caliber, that’s pretty underwhelming.

If we got Raty back for Schenn, that would be getting a major thumbs up from me.

I agree with your assessment. That's why I called him a rich man's Lammikko. It would be nice if he turns into a good 3rd line C or even 3rd line player.

I think the trade does have to be looked at as a whole. If we are to start with the standard "3 pieces" for Horvat, the 1st round pick in this case is potentially of much higher value than the 1st round pick you typically get from a contender. Of course that means the rest of the package is lesser in value.

Differentiating between a 2C or 3C is something that sounds important on paper but there are so many ranges within those spots that it doesn't really matter. A high-end 3C would immediately be the 3rd most important forward on this roster and if Raty can be a long-term answer there then this deal will be a home run as those guys are hard to find without overpaying.

But he's no sure thing. I see the floor for Raty as a guy who just flamed out here in Jason Dickinson. Bottom-six "center" with decent size who you would probably rather see on the wing.

I think his ceiling is a bit underrated here though.

I agree that there are so many ranges but I think it does matter. The high-end 3C you describe is probably required to offer more offense than what was required of Malhotra back in the day. A good example is Danault. There's a huge difference between him producing like a 2C offensively and that of a 3C even though his usage would likely be similar.

 

[Horvat1C]

I agree that there are so many ranges but I think it does matter. The high-end 3C you describe is probably required to offer more offense than what was required of Malhotra back in the day. A good example is Danault. There's a huge difference between him producing like a 2C offensively and that of a 3C even though his usage would likely be similar.

Cirelli has been instrumental in all of Tampa's Cup runs the last three years while barely scoring, and he's their 2C. He had 3 goals last Playoffs. If Raty fits well in our system (that ideally we develop) and plays his role well then his value as a mainstay on the 3rd line even without offence will be very high to us.

 

[RutherPlan]

you guys really butchered him eh?

This is a prospect that was a PPG in the Liiga at 19 years old. He's playing in his first North American season and is doing fine, I bet he flourishes in Abbotsford.

 

[Jay26]

15 points in 27 games, his offensive output is not ideal.

As a 20 year old rookie in North America, it's just fine. It'll be interesting to see if his production increases on a better Abbotsford team.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Im suprised Faber says Räty has good wheels.

While I disagree with some of the takes that his hockey sense is bad or that he doesn't have offensive potential, I think his skating is what is and will hold him back.

 

[Wanderson]

Nyi fans aren't too happy he was included

That’s because he is one of our few decent prospects. Our prospect pool is extremely weak since Lou is training away the 1st rounder every year.

However, I believe in Räty. Hopefully he will continue to develop, even though he has been nothing more than “meh” on North American soil, so far.

He seems to be a player who will only produce when he is happy and when his self confidence is high. To use a Swedish term, his minimum level is very low but his maximum level is elite.

He was invisible and one of the worst players in Kärpät when he didn’t play on the first or second line. Jukerit decided to loan him, put him on the first line and he teared down the whole league.

 

[F A N]

Cirelli has been instrumental in all of Tampa's Cup runs the last three years while barely scoring, and he's their 2C. He had 3 goals last Playoffs. If Raty fits well in our system (that ideally we develop) and plays his role well then his value as a mainstay on the 3rd line even without offence will be very high to us.

And Cirelli was paid $4.8M AAV on a 3 year bridge and will be making $6.25M AAV over 8 years going forward. Would you re-sign Horvat to a 8x $6.25M AAV deal if he was a 20 goal 40 point C?

Obviously we are talking about different players here. Cirelli is really good defensively and capable of being an elite shutdown C. That’s where his value comes from. I just think that on a team other than a high octane offensive juggernaut it’s hard to pay a guy like Cirelli that kind of money and win the Cup.

We had a similar discussion when Daneault was a UFA. I don’t remember anyone of us wanting to pay him what he got from LA because we were concerned about his offensive production going forward.

Regardless none of this matters. If Raty develops into a player where we are debating whether to pay him big money then he would be a significant asset.

 

[kcunac]

If say Fabian Lysell is a clear tier above Raty, I don't know if he is but for the sake of the argument lets say so, would you rather have the BOS 1st + Lysell or the NYI 1st (conditional) + Raty? The latter is a gamble but I feel like it's the better deal.

I’d personally rather have Raty than Lysell. Unknown who will be better and Lysell has done better in the AHL but I think Raty has more upside. Even if he is a good 3C that may be more valuable to this org than a top 6 winger. Of course who knows how they will develop.

Plus the pick will be considerable higher. Maybe 10 slots higher. That’s significant and may be worth more than a 2nd in itself. But like I said we’ll have to wait and see.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

If this is the road you’re going down you should probably move Pettersson now too.

Accidentally tanking every year will accomplish this.

They need to present Pettersson with an actual plan, none of this little bit of this little bit of that brick by brick bullshit. And ask if he wants to commit to being around long term and give this current group a chance to build around him and Hughes. If he says no thank you, then yes... We have reached a situation where we are trading Elias Pettersson.

 

[orcatown]

Has had a lot of ups and downs in his brief career to date.. Guy went from being projected the #1 overdraft pick to a flawed a 2nd rounder, to a reemergent high end prospect possibly ready for the NHL , to a player finding his way in the AHL.

From what I've seen, I think his upside is as a scoring winger not unlike someone like Vanek. If he does that this trade is a win, given it's other elements. I don think his skating will allow him to be very effective at center.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Replacing prime-age impact players with depth players is not a win.

Losing prime age players for nothing because you don't have the balls to pull the trigger is really not a win either,

his shot also beats nhl and ahl goalies. straight up.

and when exactly did he reinvent himself as gritty bottom 6 guy? he's not remotely played out as a prospect yet.

Yah I love that too, he's 20 years old and he's already "re-invented" himself as if his development was over and he had to or something lol what....

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

He’s a guy who matured early with a shot that he could rip by teenage goalies when he was 16-17.

Then everyone else caught up, his IQ and skating issues were exposed, and he fell in the draft.

Now he’s done a pretty good job of re-profiling as a potential big, gritty bottom-6 guy who might have 15-goal 3C upside.

I don’t see the skating or hockey sense to project him as a 2C. Nothing is impossible, obviously, and guys sometimes outperform reasonable projections. But I wouldn’t be thinking it’s a likely outcome.

He played pretty well in a pretty good mens league in Finland, you forget that part?

Where does this scouting report come from exactly, literally not read that anywhere else, sounds like your doing a lot of assuming here more than basing this in anything concrete

 

[Dala]

Pronunciation:

Not Finnish, but looks (sounds) wrong to me.

Last syllable of Raty should be short, compare with end of grit-ty or similar.

Finnish natives can correct me if wrong.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

@MS Dont think either of us got what we wanted here.

This is a compromise if there ever was one, but if you insist on players close to ready, you end up with players with a lower ceiling... in a trade like this that is.

 

[iFan]

If this is the road you’re going down you should probably move Pettersson now too.

He’s 24 years old… the sky isn’t falling if you take a step back right now. He’s young enough to build around, especially since they said in 2-3 years they’ll have this turned around.

 

[Icebreakers]

As a 20 year old rookie in North America, it's just fine. It'll be interesting to see if his production increases on a better Abbotsford team.

Then what about Hoglander who's 2 years older with NHL experience and Podkolzin who's 1 year older with NHL experience? The AHL is an extremely hard league.

Edit: meant to quote the guy you quoted

 

[racerjoe]

@MS Dont think either of us got what we wanted here.

This is a compromise if there ever was one, but if you insist on players close to ready, you end up with players with a lower ceiling... in a trade like this that is.

I may have missed it in the main thread, but how is it not what you wanted? A top prospect and a high end first?

@MS Isn't the draft pick most likely the high end asset you were talking about as well? Most likely top 15?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I may have missed it in the main thread, but how is it not what you wanted? A top prospect and a high end first?

@MS Isn't the draft pick most likely the high end asset you were talking about as well? Most likely top 15?

Ilya Sorokin is really good. I dont feel that comfortable betting against the Islanders. Its likely a mid 1st. Its ok value.

I mostly agree with MS on what Räty is. A middle 6 winger (lets hope not) or a 3rd line center, with a rather small chance of becoming something more.

Beauvillier is a cap dump winger. Maybe we can mine him for some value at some point?

 

[iceburg]

Would love to see a Hoglander-Raty-Podkolzin as a staple line in the AHL for the rest of this year. A 2 game stint for that line in the NHL would be fun. It likely won’t happen, and probably shouldn’t, but it would be fun.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

you guys really butchered him eh?

This is a prospect that was a PPG in the Liiga at 19 years old. He's playing in his first North American season and is doing fine, I bet he flourishes in Abbotsford.

His skating is an issue.

Offensive creativity too.

Unless he can improve his skating he projects more as a winger.


edit. I realise it sounds like Im really down on him. I am not. Its just that as a return for Horvat on torrid pace... his ceiling is low.

Will be interesting to see if our newly revamped development team can help Räty improve.

 

[HelloCookie]

Not Finnish, but looks (sounds) wrong to me.

Last syllable of Raty should be short, compare with end of grit-ty or similar.

Finnish natives can correct me if wrong.

In the very beginning you'll hear the pronounciation of Räty

 

[MS]

Yah I love that too, he's 20 years old and he's already "re-invented" himself as if his development was over and he had to or something lol what....

I don't know what's so controversial about that statement. It's actually a compliment, really.

Raty was considered a potential #1 overall pick and future star at age 16-17. Then his stock absolutely crashed in his draft year. Since then, he's built himself back into a pretty good prospect with a substantially lower upside than originally thought but has added some physicality and defensive play and improved work rate to project into a different sort of player.

@MS Dont think either of us got what we wanted here.

This is a compromise if there ever was one, but if you insist on players close to ready, you end up with players with a lower ceiling... in a trade like this that is.

This is pretty much a pure rebuild trade, no? Biggest asset was a draft pick. Other asset was a young AHL prospect.

Ilya Sorokin is really good. I dont feel that comfortable betting against the Islanders. Its likely a mid 1st. Its ok value.

I mostly agree with MS on what Räty is. A middle 6 winger (lets hope not) or a 3rd line center, with a rather small chance of becoming something more.

Beauvillier is a cap dump winger. Maybe we can mine him for some value at some point?

Yeah, I'll grant that Raty might have a bit more offensive upside as a north-south winger where his skating is a bit less of a thing and his shot might play up. His skillset is actually fairly similar to a young Tanner Pearson.

 

[Vector]