Aaron Judge or Connor McDavid

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Aaron Judge or Connor McDavid

  • Aaron Judge

  • Connor McDavid


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Nadal On Clay

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I’m not. 2-5 is a range I have because some people watched basketball going back a long way. Longevity and the compiling doesn’t vault him over Jordan. That’s a weak argument which is why even though his career is over in any meaningful sense the majority pick Jordan over him. There would need to be a stronger one to have him be a majority #1 all time selection. That won’t happen however. People can try to make it but it’s weak.
Some people would rather have 20 years of prime LeBron over 12 years of prime MJ. You can’t really blame them for that. Putting LeBron below 3 is much worse than putting him at 1.

You could have watched Basketball since it was invented. It doesn’t matter. Wilt and Russell are not close to him. No other player other than MJ or KAJ should or can objectively be argued over LeBron (and KAJ’s case continues to weakens as days go by).
 
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WalterLundy

Registered User
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Some people would rather have 20 years of prime LeBron over 12 years of prime MJ. You can’t really blame them for that. Putting LeBron below 3 is much worse than putting him at 1.

You could have watched Basketball since it was invented. It doesn’t matter. Wilt and Russell are not close to him. No other player other than MJ or KAJ should or can objectively be argued over LeBron (and KAJ’s case continues to weakens as days go by).
I wholeheartedly disagree. I do agree with your tennis rankings.
 

Nadal On Clay

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I wholeheartedly disagree. I do agree with your tennis rankings.
LeBron has as many top 3 MVP finishes as Jordan has full seasons played for the Bulls (11).

I’ll be waiting to see your case on how there are 4 players greater than LeBron James in the history of the NBA.
 

hamzarocks

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Jul 22, 2012
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Some people would rather have 20 years of prime LeBron over 12 years of prime MJ. You can’t really blame them for that. Putting LeBron below 3 is much worse than putting him at 1.

You could have watched Basketball since it was invented. It doesn’t matter. Wilt and Russell are not close to him. No other player other than MJ or KAJ should or can objectively be argued over LeBron (and KAJ’s case continues to weakens as days go by).
Lebron and MJ will be 1 and 2 in whatever order ( I have LBJ 1A now and MJ 1B) until 1 of below miracously pass them

Giannis (extremely unlikely needed an MVP + 2 more rings these past 3 years), will need 2 more MVPs + 3 more rings + final MVPs to potentially have shot at being the GOAT - 1%

Luka (no MVP yet but think he gets at least 3, a ring could be close too with the mavs being elite). Needa 3-5 MVPs, + 3-5 rings but he has advantage that his all round numbers likely surpass lebrons for totals and avgs. He likely holds the scoring record when he retires barring injuries. - 5%

Jokic (3 mvps but 1 ring. Needs 1 more MVP + 3 more rings + FMVP at min next 5 years to seriously enter GOAT convo) - 5%

Wembanyama - Needa to get stronger, stay healthy and have a long career but he has the tools and ability to knock 1 of MJ/LBJ from top 2. He will be the best defensive player ever when he retires surpassing Hakeem, which will boost his all time status. - 10%

LBJ and MJ are locks as 1 and 2 however you want to view them barring some crazy level of play from those guys for the next 6-18 years
 
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WalterLundy

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LeBron has as many top 3 MVP finishes as Jordan has full seasons played for the Bulls (11).

I’ll be waiting to see your case on how there are 4 players greater than LeBron James in the history of the NBA.
I’m not making the case. Relax. Work on your reading comprehension. I made a range of 2-5 to accommodate older basketball viewers while also assuring lebron a spot in the top 5 no matter what. For career I actually have him second but when the conversation shifts to single seasons or prime it would change as I’ve seen better. Nothing about the Judge vs McDavid topic should involve Lebron James anyway and I didn’t bring him up.
 

FrozenJagrt

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Dec 16, 2009
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There are some better options to compare McDavid with in other sports. In the current the NFL; Mahomes is better, Justin Jefferson is better, and for the NBA; Jokic is better.
I can't speak to football or baseball, but I will say Jokic is not better than McDavid relative to their sports. McDavid has a very legitimate case as a top 5 player of all time *right now*, Jokic isn't even the greatest center of all time and likely won't get there.
 

Golden_Jet

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Sep 21, 2005
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LeBron has as many top 3 MVP finishes as Jordan has full seasons played for the Bulls (11).

I’ll be waiting to see your case on how there are 4 players greater than LeBron James in the history of the NBA.
KAJ - 6 MVP wins
MJ - 5 wins
Russell - 4 wins
LJ - 4 wins
Then a bunch at 3
 

Nadal On Clay

Djokovic > Nadal > Federer
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Lebron and MJ will be 1 and 2 in whatever order ( I have LBJ 1A now and MJ 1B) until 1 of below miracously pass them

Giannis (extremely unlikely needed an MVP + 2 more rings these past 3 years), will need 2 more MVPs + 3 more rings + final MVPs to potentially have shot at being the GOAT - 1%

Luka (no MVP yet but think he gets at least 3, a ring could be close too with the mavs being elite). Needa 3-5 MVPs, + 3-5 rings but he has advantage that his all round numbers likely surpass lebrons for totals and avgs. He likely holds the scoring record when he retires barring injuries. - 5%

Jokic (3 mvps but 1 ring. Needs 1 more MVP + 3 more rings + FMVP at min next 5 years to seriously enter GOAT convo) - 5%

Wembanyama - Needa to get stronger, stay healthy and have a long career but he has the tools and ability to knock 1 of MJ/LBJ from top 2. He will be the best defensive player ever when he retires surpassing Hakeem, which will boost his all time status. - 10%

LBJ and MJ are locks as 1 and 2 however you want to view them barring some crazy level of play from those guys for the next 6-18 years
Yeah I don’t see Giannis having a case at all for GOAT status, let alone being a top 10 player of all time.

Jokic is already entering top 10 status and has the best case to get close to the top. I think him and McDavid have similar upside for their all time ranking. (I have Jokic ahead).

Doncic will need to win something. He’s going to have some of the best stats ever in the NBA and will probably beat some records too, as you’ve mentioned. IMO, he’s similar to Josh Allen in the NFL. Extremely talented player and offering otherworldly production year after year, but they have never been “the best” in any given year so far. I think both of them will have their year soon enough, though.

Wemby is a WIP. He has a lot of potential, but it’s way to early to project. He has an advantage given of how good he is at his age, but a lot of work needs to be done to even entertain the conversation.
 

Nadal On Clay

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I can't speak to football or baseball, but I will say Jokic is not better than McDavid relative to their sports. McDavid has a very legitimate case as a top 5 player of all time *right now*, Jokic isn't even the greatest center of all time and likely won't get there.
McDavid doesn’t have a particularly good case for a top 5 player ever if he retires tomorrow (unless you only care about peak play or awards). He will most likely get there when it’s all said and done, but not right now. Jokic has the edge for me due to his ring. I don’t really mind people having McDavid ahead, but to me, he’s not. McDavid has 2 more regular seasons of elite play, but Jokic has been better in the playoffs (more consistent at least).

I can see Jokic having a case for the best big of all time if his level of play doesn’t drastically dip in the next couple of years, and especially if he adds another MVP. McDavid has no shot to become the best center of all time in hockey whatsoever, so I don’t really know how that point is relevant anyways.
 

Video Nasty

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Mar 12, 2017
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LeBron has as many top 3 MVP finishes as Jordan has full seasons played for the Bulls (11).

We can rephrase and cherry pick our way to any argument.

Jordan has more actual MVP’s than LeBron. Why isn’t that important? Because LeBron is behind?

Jordan had 10 top 3 MVPs finishes in the 11 seasons you highlighted. Your wording is best used when the number isn’t even close. For all of LeBron’s value, he has managed one less MVP and a single MVP finalist over the course of 8 more full seasons, as you put it, played.

In your vein, Jordan has as many scoring titles (10) as LeBron has full seasons played outside Cleveland (10), during which he has zero scoring titles. He also won just one during his entire career. Scoring titles got brushed off though because they don’t fit into LeBron’s story.

Jordan won 2 MVPs, 4 titles, 4 Finals MVPs, and 4 scoring titles past the age of 28.

LeBron won zero MVPs, 2 titles, 2 Finals MVPs, and 0 scoring titles past the age of 28.

LeBron has been generally out of the MVP conversation post 33 (five out of the past six seasons; where he picked up that one additional finalist nomination). He’s been great, but this longevity isn’t adding anything beyond compiling stats and of course, the romantic sentiment of people not knowing an NBA without their hero.

We are also asked to ignore the 9 1st All-Defensive selections and Defensive Player of the Year award for Jordan because LeBron has 5 and 0.

LeBron achieved less than Jordan while playing longer. I don’t have a problem with him being ranked as the #2 that he is. He should be applauded for his longevity, but just because he was great for a long time, it doesn’t diminish what Jordan did during a shorter timeframe (it’s not like he played less than 10 seasons either).
 

Nadal On Clay

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We can rephrase and cherry pick our way to any argument.

Jordan has more actual MVP’s than LeBron. Why isn’t that important? Because LeBron is behind?

Jordan had 10 top 3 MVPs finishes in the 11 seasons you highlighted. Your wording is best used when the number isn’t even close. For all of LeBron’s value, he has managed one less MVP and a single MVP finalist over the course of 8 more full seasons, as you put it, played.

In your vein, Jordan has as many scoring titles (10) as LeBron has full seasons played outside Cleveland (10), during which he has zero scoring titles. He also won just one during his entire career. Scoring titles got brushed off though because they don’t fit into LeBron’s story.

Jordan won 2 MVPs, 4 titles, 4 Finals MVPs, and 4 scoring titles past the age of 28.

LeBron won zero MVPs, 2 titles, 2 Finals MVPs, and 0 scoring titles past the age of 28.

LeBron has been generally out of the MVP conversation post 33 (five out of the past six seasons; where he picked up that one additional finalist nomination). He’s been great, but this longevity isn’t adding anything beyond compiling stats and of course, the romantic sentiment of people not knowing an NBA without their hero.

We are also asked to ignore the 9 1st All-Defensive selections and Defensive Player of the Year award for Jordan because LeBron has 5 and 0.

LeBron achieved less than Jordan while playing longer. I don’t have a problem with him being ranked as the #2 that he is. He should be applauded for his longevity, but just because he was great for a long time, it doesn’t diminish what Jordan did during a shorter timeframe (it’s not like he played less than 10 seasons either).
My point was to prove to your friend that LeBron had a better case for #1 than he does for #4, which he does, as even you seem to agree with it.

I’m well ware of Jordan’s accomplishments, even though his value from season 13 to season 21 is minimal, to not say non-existent. Meanwhile, LeBron remained a top 15 player during those seasons.
 

FrozenJagrt

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McDavid doesn’t have a particularly good case for a top 5 player ever if he retires tomorrow (unless you only care about peak play or awards). He will most likely get there when it’s all said and done, but not right now. Jokic has the edge for me due to his ring. I don’t really mind people having McDavid ahead, but to me, he’s not. McDavid has 2 more regular seasons of elite play, but Jokic has been better in the playoffs (more consistent at least).

I can see Jokic having a case for the best big of all time if his level of play doesn’t drastically dip in the next couple of years, and especially if he adds another MVP. McDavid has no shot to become the best center of all time in hockey whatsoever, so I don’t really know how that point is relevant anyways.
At absolute worst, McDavid is a top ten player of all time *right now* and I don't see how anyone could disagree, his numbers and trophy case are too impressive to ignore.

Is Jokic a top ten player of all time right now? Certainly not. Will he get there? Probably not.
 

GOilers88

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Dec 24, 2016
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McDavid easily. As others have said, Ohtani and Trout are better baseball comparisons for McDavid. Judge is the best slugger of the 3 and a generational one too, but Ohtani (at least when he's pitching) and Trout are better all around players.
The Tragic Tale of Mike Trout.

One of the greatest players of his sport to never even sniff the playoffs, let alone a championship.

I don't think Mike Trout should be a comparable to greats. Part of what makes the greatest players in any sport is their playoff/post season performances. Unfortunately nobody will ever know how great he truly is/was/could have been because he'll never sniff meaningful games.
 

Golden_Jet

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My point was to prove to your friend that LeBron had a better case for #1 than he does for #4, which he does, as even you seem to agree with it.

I’m well ware of Jordan’s accomplishments, even though his value from season 13 to season 21 is minimal, to not say non-existent. Meanwhile, LeBron remained a top 15 player during those seasons.
Lmao,
He played a total of 15 seasons, not 21,
Only off by 6 seasons.

Yes some were minimal to non existent lol, as he retired in there, and had a season of baseball. Thanks for the laugh.
 

Nadal On Clay

Djokovic > Nadal > Federer
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At absolute worst, McDavid is a top ten player of all time *right now* and I don't see how anyone could disagree, his numbers and trophy case are too impressive to ignore.

Is Jokic a top ten player of all time right now? Certainly not. Will he get there? Probably not.
That’s entirely subjective as their achievements are quite similar.

Lmao,
He played a total of 15 seasons, not 21,
Only off by 6 seasons.

Yes some were minimal to non existent lol, as he retired in there, and had a season of baseball. Thanks for the laugh.
LeBron played 21 seasons, which is useful when you compare them head-to-head.

Jordan played 15 seasons, but missed almost all of the RS season in 2 of them, which is why I used 13.

Basically, from year 14 to year 21, Jordan has brought basically no value to his team compared to LeBron who was a top 15 player in the league from year 14 to year 21. (Last 2 seasons are arguable). That is a major difference between the 2 and can be used at the advantage of Bron in this comparison.

There’s a difference between compiling numbers as a depth player on mediocre teams and remaining the face of the league (and the face of your team) while still competing for championships.

Top 1 MVP finishes
LeBron: 4
MJ: 5

Top 2 MVP finishes
LeBron: 8
MJ: 8

Top 3 MVP finishes
LeBron: 11
MJ: 10

Top 4 MVP finishes
LeBron: 13
MJ: 10

Top 5 MVP finishes
LeBron: 14
MJ: 10

Top 10 MVP finishes
LeBron: 17
MJ: 11

If you look further than the MVPs they’ve won, LeBron has the advantage in the regular season.
 
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Golden_Jet

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That’s entirely subjective as their achievements are quite similar.


LeBron played 21 seasons, which is useful when you compare them head-to-head.

Jordan played 15 seasons, but missed almost all of the RS season in 2 of them, which is why I used 13.

Basically, from year 14 to year 21, Jordan has brought basically no value to his team compared to LeBron who was a top 15 player in the league from year 14 to year 21. (Last 2 seasons are arguable). That is a major difference between the 2 and can be used at the advantage of Bron in this comparison.

There’s a difference between compiling numbers as a depth player on mediocre teams and remaining the face of the league (and the face of your team) while still competing for championships.

Top 1 MVP finishes
LeBron: 4
MJ: 5

Top 2 MVP finishes
LeBron: 8
MJ: 8

Top 3 MVP finishes
LeBron: 11
MJ: 10

Top 4 MVP finishes
LeBron: 13
MJ: 10

Top 5 MVP finishes
LeBron: 14
MJ: 10

Top 10 MVP finishes
LeBron: 17
MJ: 11

If you look further than the MVPs they’ve won, LeBron has the advantage in the regular season.
Lmao, sure go ahead and keep comparing 5 seasons of Jordan not even playing to LeBron playing and I’ll continue laughing.
Laughing harder now that you’ve doubled down on it.
He played 2 out of those 7 seasons, this is becoming comedy gold.

any player in the league is better than a retired player.
 

LightningStorm

Lightning/Mets/Vikings
Dec 19, 2008
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The Tragic Tale of Mike Trout.

One of the greatest players of his sport to never even sniff the playoffs, let alone a championship.

I don't think Mike Trout should be a comparable to greats. Part of what makes the greatest players in any sport is their playoff/post season performances. Unfortunately nobody will ever know how great he truly is/was/could have been because he'll never sniff meaningful games.
Someone hasn't heard of Arte Moreno.
 

crowi

Registered Loser
May 11, 2012
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So this is baseball player vs hockey player? Baseball player likely getting paid more, but he is blip that MAY surface from absolute boredom of watching baseball.

I would rather watch McDavid than any baseball player that has ever played.
 
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LokiDog

Get pucks deep. Get pucks to the net. And, uh…
Sep 13, 2018
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It’s completely irrelevant to the question being posed, and the popularity of baseball may even skew this in Judge’s favor… but I will never be as “impressed” with ANY baseball player as I can be with even the all-stars in hockey who aren’t all-time legends. Datsyuk, Fedorov, the Sedins, Forsberg… yes, all “greats” to be sure, but not in the conversation for most dominant or all-time best status. Heck, even guys Panarin or Gaudreau… to me being a 100+ point player in the NHL is far more impressive than anything you can do on a baseball diamond, and it’s just down to the differences in the sports. I played baseball from 7-16 year old (hockey from 4-present, I’m 37).

I’ve played on some men’s softball teams in the interim years and genuinely enjoy it for what it is, so not a hater by any means. Hockey is simply a different beast.

Just handling a pass in stride - on ice skates, with a small stick blade - can be as tricky as Jeter fielding a hard grounder up the middle, and to control that pass, maneuver body position on the defender and thread another pass to an open teammate, while skating, while a defender does everything in their power - including running you over - to make it impossible for you to do so is just a different level of athletic skill, IMO. To be able to do that, have that second pass result in… maybe a shot on goal and puck kicked to the corner, which you then go and battle for and win, using body position, fighting through checks, pivoting on ice skates, to then go make another tape to tape saucer pass, follow the puck to the net, get your hands on a bouncing rebound, control that and then snap it into the net… all in a 45 second shift… it’s just not the same, to me. An amazing shortstop will make an insanely athletic stop on a hit, manage to flip it to the 2B and initiate the double play and the also be a .340 hitter but they’re rarely doing everything all at once and they’re never doing anything for more than like 8 seconds at a time. To do some of the things that Crosby or McDavid do, being an elite hockey player period is simply far more impressive, IMO.
 
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Video Nasty

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Mar 12, 2017
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My point was to prove to your friend that LeBron had a better case for #1 than he does for #4, which he does, as even you seem to agree with it.

I’m well ware of Jordan’s accomplishments, even though his value from season 13 to season 21 is minimal, to not say non-existent. Meanwhile, LeBron remained a top 15 player during those seasons.

Okay, got it. I’m assuming you have Gretzky and Howe as your top 2 for hockey?
 
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WalterLundy

Registered User
Nov 7, 2023
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Nope. Othani is greater than both when he's pitching.
Judge in his two best seasons (2022 and 2024) has a 19.7 WAR in 285 games. Ohtani’s two best seasons (2022 and 2023 while pitching as well) has a 19.5 WAR in 292 games. It’s so close but to say greater just wouldn’t be true. Maybe in terms of how cool it is. McDavid is better than both in a relative sense. Ohtani is a unicorn and does stuff we haven’t seen in a very long time but that doesn’t make him clearly better than even Aaron Judge let alone the best of other major sports. For me to agree with your statement I feel like Ohtani would need to be clearing Judge by at least several points in WAR.
 

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