A Comprehensive Review of the Kyle Dubas Era

[Ianturnedbull]

Glaring Errors:

* Not rallying around Nazem Kadri and making him the scapegoat for three bitter playoff losses. Subsequently trading Kadri for ultimately irrelevant players in Kerfoot and Barrie.

* Nic Foligno Trade - A complete and utter disaster. The other forgotten piece - Noesen would go on to have a productive year in Carolina.

* The handling of the Marleau Contract. Under no circumstances should he have been traded with a First Round Pick. The goal here was to retain Kapanen and Johnsson, both of whom were ultimately dealt a year later.

* The signing of the Mrazek contract. Abysmal. The jettisoning of that contract was also downright atrocious.

* The handling of the Nylander contract. Should have been forced to sit the year. Would have sent a clear message the team comes first.

* The Murray contract - Almost as inexcusable as the Tukka Rask trade. When even the majority of the fanbase has it right, you definitely need new management.

* Not addressing organizational depth - The Jake Muzzin deal had an initial positive impact; however, his current injury status makes the trade a loss. No question, Durzi, Grundstrom, and Moore would be valuable members of our current depth. The loss of Hyman of also not additionally addressed.

* Promoting Keefe without considering potential alternatives. I don't blame Keefe as virulently as many of you, I think he has some positive qualities; however, he is often his own worst enemy. He may find success elsewhere.

* Increasing organizational bloat while wanting to 'streamline' the decision making processes. There are many figureheads in the organization that serve no function. Trim the fat.

* John Tavares Contract - Hard to blame him for it, but a more restrained and experienced GM probably would have avoided this. Everybody was clamoring for it, and even though Tavares has put up good numbers, and even scored the goal to get us to the next round this year, perhaps it is best if alternate options are explored.

* Mitch Marner and Auston Matthews Deals - Created false expectations that could not be met. Both players should have been bridged (like Mackinnon) and signed to monster deals after at least 1 championship run.

* Completely overthinking the expansion draft and losing McCann. This player would have added tremendous depth to our top 6.

Some Positives:

* Found sporadic quality goaltending in Jack Campbell - Ultimately the right decision to let go of Campbell

* Found a quality 1B in Samsonov - Fantastic year, needs to continue to work on his game (specifically his positioning and lateral movement) - Has proven to be mentally tough (rebounds well, especially after soft Game 5 goal against Tampa)

* Drafted and developed Joseph Woll - Have high hopes for this kid. His positioning reminds me of Belfour (my favorite Leafs goalie)

* Drafted Knies - Huge credit for this, kid is a stud. Hopefully he realizes why Florida deliberately targeted him this year and comes back stronger and angrier next year.

* Signing of Kampf - Hardworking and low maintenance fourth liner. Played with a lot of heart and developed good chemistry with a host of linemates (ranging from Engvall to Lafferty).

* Trading for Luke Schenn - I was a nonbeliever but Schenn has improved his game immensely. Strong, steady, and displayed some solid leadership, especially when absorbing those horrendous Tampa chirps.

* Signing of Bunting - Finding a youngish player that can provide 50 points is a coup.

* Acquiring McCabe - Thought he was a solid physical presence when focused. Felt he was less effective in the Florida series.

Undecided/Question Marks:

* Trading of Rasmus Sandin - Trading our young defenseman never has a habit of coming back to bite us in the rear... I thought this guy was solid. Good positioning, physical when needed, and high puck IQ. We certainly missed his breakout passing in the playoffs.

* Acquiring Lafferty - Showed some sporadic potential, felt his deployment could be better. Could use his speed on the penalty kill like Chicago did.

* Gustaffson - Didn't this guy play consistently for Montreal in the 2021 playoffs? Why was he not used instead of Giordano and Holl?


Did I miss anything?

This is pretty solid. Thanks for doing this.

Question for Leaf Fans:

Why are the Dubas Robots still hanging around? Dubas is gone. It's time to do your due diligence and leave. Your identity has been tossed out.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The Dubas Fan Boi Club is always good for a laugh.

This is why I absolutely can’t wait for another team to be dumb enough to hire Dubas to be the GM.

I’m certain that Dubas will be an even bigger disaster than he was in Toronto because there’s no team in the league that has the kind of young core in ELCs that he was handed with the Leafs.



FYI - - JT is definitely NOT “da real deal”.

Da kid is a good kid played on Marlies team with my older son for many years .. but agree he is not da real deal anymore .. and fyi i know he is not a kid anymore but he still is a kid to me

 

[tmlms13]

I wouldn't call Dubas an era. I'd call it a stint or tenure.

The era is the Shanahan era, 2014 - Now

 

[Donnie740]

Da kid is a good kid played on Marlies team with my older son for many years .. but agree he is not da real deal anymore .. and fyi i know he is not a kid anymore but he still is a kid to me

John Tavares played for the Marlies? Or do You mean Jonathan Toews played for the Marlies?

Either way, I’m sure it must have been an epic bender for you.

 

[Racer88]

Glaring Errors:

* Not rallying around Nazem Kadri and making him the scapegoat for three bitter playoff losses. Subsequently trading Kadri for ultimately irrelevant players in Kerfoot and Barrie.

* Nic Foligno Trade - A complete and utter disaster. The other forgotten piece - Noesen would go on to have a productive year in Carolina.

* The handling of the Marleau Contract. Under no circumstances should he have been traded with a First Round Pick. The goal here was to retain Kapanen and Johnsson, both of whom were ultimately dealt a year later.

* The signing of the Mrazek contract. Abysmal. The jettisoning of that contract was also downright atrocious.

* The handling of the Nylander contract. Should have been forced to sit the year. Would have sent a clear message the team comes first.

* The Murray contract - Almost as inexcusable as the Tukka Rask trade. When even the majority of the fanbase has it right, you definitely need new management.

* Not addressing organizational depth - The Jake Muzzin deal had an initial positive impact; however, his current injury status makes the trade a loss. No question, Durzi, Grundstrom, and Moore would be valuable members of our current depth. The loss of Hyman of also not additionally addressed.

* Promoting Keefe without considering potential alternatives. I don't blame Keefe as virulently as many of you, I think he has some positive qualities; however, he is often his own worst enemy. He may find success elsewhere.

* Increasing organizational bloat while wanting to 'streamline' the decision making processes. There are many figureheads in the organization that serve no function. Trim the fat.

* John Tavares Contract - Hard to blame him for it, but a more restrained and experienced GM probably would have avoided this. Everybody was clamoring for it, and even though Tavares has put up good numbers, and even scored the goal to get us to the next round this year, perhaps it is best if alternate options are explored.

* Mitch Marner and Auston Matthews Deals - Created false expectations that could not be met. Both players should have been bridged (like Mackinnon) and signed to monster deals after at least 1 championship run.

* Completely overthinking the expansion draft and losing McCann. This player would have added tremendous depth to our top 6.

Some Positives:

* Found sporadic quality goaltending in Jack Campbell - Ultimately the right decision to let go of Campbell

* Found a quality 1B in Samsonov - Fantastic year, needs to continue to work on his game (specifically his positioning and lateral movement) - Has proven to be mentally tough (rebounds well, especially after soft Game 5 goal against Tampa)

* Drafted and developed Joseph Woll - Have high hopes for this kid. His positioning reminds me of Belfour (my favorite Leafs goalie)

* Drafted Knies - Huge credit for this, kid is a stud. Hopefully he realizes why Florida deliberately targeted him this year and comes back stronger and angrier next year.

* Signing of Kampf - Hardworking and low maintenance fourth liner. Played with a lot of heart and developed good chemistry with a host of linemates (ranging from Engvall to Lafferty).

* Trading for Luke Schenn - I was a nonbeliever but Schenn has improved his game immensely. Strong, steady, and displayed some solid leadership, especially when absorbing those horrendous Tampa chirps.

* Signing of Bunting - Finding a youngish player that can provide 50 points is a coup.

* Acquiring McCabe - Thought he was a solid physical presence when focused. Felt he was less effective in the Florida series.

Undecided/Question Marks:

* Trading of Rasmus Sandin - Trading our young defenseman never has a habit of coming back to bite us in the rear... I thought this guy was solid. Good positioning, physical when needed, and high puck IQ. We certainly missed his breakout passing in the playoffs.

* Acquiring Lafferty - Showed some sporadic potential, felt his deployment could be better. Could use his speed on the penalty kill like Chicago did.

* Gustaffson - Didn't this guy play consistently for Montreal in the 2021 playoffs? Why was he not used instead of Giordano and Holl?


Did I miss anything?

I believe Lamerello was the gm when Woll was drafted

 

[saltming]

Glaring Errors:

* Not rallying around Nazem Kadri and making him the scapegoat for three bitter playoff losses. Subsequently trading Kadri for ultimately irrelevant players in Kerfoot and Barrie.

* Nic Foligno Trade - A complete and utter disaster. The other forgotten piece - Noesen would go on to have a productive year in Carolina.

* The handling of the Marleau Contract. Under no circumstances should he have been traded with a First Round Pick. The goal here was to retain Kapanen and Johnsson, both of whom were ultimately dealt a year later.

* The signing of the Mrazek contract. Abysmal. The jettisoning of that contract was also downright atrocious.

* The handling of the Nylander contract. Should have been forced to sit the year. Would have sent a clear message the team comes first.

* The Murray contract - Almost as inexcusable as the Tukka Rask trade. When even the majority of the fanbase has it right, you definitely need new management.

* Not addressing organizational depth - The Jake Muzzin deal had an initial positive impact; however, his current injury status makes the trade a loss. No question, Durzi, Grundstrom, and Moore would be valuable members of our current depth. The loss of Hyman of also not additionally addressed.

* Promoting Keefe without considering potential alternatives. I don't blame Keefe as virulently as many of you, I think he has some positive qualities; however, he is often his own worst enemy. He may find success elsewhere.

* Increasing organizational bloat while wanting to 'streamline' the decision making processes. There are many figureheads in the organization that serve no function. Trim the fat.

* John Tavares Contract - Hard to blame him for it, but a more restrained and experienced GM probably would have avoided this. Everybody was clamoring for it, and even though Tavares has put up good numbers, and even scored the goal to get us to the next round this year, perhaps it is best if alternate options are explored.

* Mitch Marner and Auston Matthews Deals - Created false expectations that could not be met. Both players should have been bridged (like Mackinnon) and signed to monster deals after at least 1 championship run.

* Completely overthinking the expansion draft and losing McCann. This player would have added tremendous depth to our top 6.

Some Positives:

* Found sporadic quality goaltending in Jack Campbell - Ultimately the right decision to let go of Campbell

* Found a quality 1B in Samsonov - Fantastic year, needs to continue to work on his game (specifically his positioning and lateral movement) - Has proven to be mentally tough (rebounds well, especially after soft Game 5 goal against Tampa)

* Drafted and developed Joseph Woll - Have high hopes for this kid. His positioning reminds me of Belfour (my favorite Leafs goalie)

* Drafted Knies - Huge credit for this, kid is a stud. Hopefully he realizes why Florida deliberately targeted him this year and comes back stronger and angrier next year.

* Signing of Kampf - Hardworking and low maintenance fourth liner. Played with a lot of heart and developed good chemistry with a host of linemates (ranging from Engvall to Lafferty).

* Trading for Luke Schenn - I was a nonbeliever but Schenn has improved his game immensely. Strong, steady, and displayed some solid leadership, especially when absorbing those horrendous Tampa chirps.

* Signing of Bunting - Finding a youngish player that can provide 50 points is a coup.

* Acquiring McCabe - Thought he was a solid physical presence when focused. Felt he was less effective in the Florida series.

Undecided/Question Marks:

* Trading of Rasmus Sandin - Trading our young defenseman never has a habit of coming back to bite us in the rear... I thought this guy was solid. Good positioning, physical when needed, and high puck IQ. We certainly missed his breakout passing in the playoffs.

* Acquiring Lafferty - Showed some sporadic potential, felt his deployment could be better. Could use his speed on the penalty kill like Chicago did.

* Gustaffson - Didn't this guy play consistently for Montreal in the 2021 playoffs? Why was he not used instead of Giordano and Holl?


Did I miss anything?

Comprehensive

Like a lot of posters, you don't look at what's done behind the curtain.
Health science team, development team, scouting, cap guru agm etc

 

[tmlms13]

John Tavares played for the Marlies? Or do You mean Jonathan Toews played for the Marlies?

Either way, I’m sure it must have been an epic bender for you.

He did, common knowledge

Toronto Marlboros U16 AAA 2004-2005 - Roster, Stats & more

Toronto Marlboros U16 AAA - GTHL U16 - hockey team page with roster, stats, transactions at eliteprospects.com

www.eliteprospects.com

 

[ToneDog]

Holy f*** did you just use Bobby mcmann as a prospect

The D.D.L at it again with its finest. He’s left us with Matthews and nylander as a UFA next year, gave Marner a 2 year NMC

Only prospects he’s left us with is knies, Robertson and woll. Woll wasn’t getting dealt but fine add him in. Robertson is looking rough with injuries right now

Niemela hasn’t even played a full AHL season and Hirvonen put up LESS points this year compared to last.

He left us 1 top 6 prospect, 1 middle six prospect and mystery box of others

And very little draft picks. Smart enough to realize he had no chance to succeed here with the mess he was facing as Leafs GM. May as well bullshit his way to Pittsburgh and fool them into giving me a 5 year contract.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

John Tavares played for the Marlies? Or do You mean Jonathan Toews played for the Marlies?

Either way, I’m sure it must have been an epic bender for you.

Sorry we call them da Marlies but most people call them da Marlboros hockey club .. JT now owns da GTHL team which he and Gagner bought from JN .. my kids were 3rd generation Marlies and even one a Marlie captain

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

That's a tad extreme.

I meant from the perspective of Leafs fans agreeing almost in unison that it was a horrible trade at the moment it was made. Obviously, in the grand scheme of things, the Rask trade was much more significant.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Comprehensive
View attachment 712229
Like a lot of posters, you don't look at what's done behind the curtain.
Health science team, development team, scouting, cap guru agm etc

We got a pretty good peek behind the curtain in the last two weeks wouldn't you say? It revealed what many of us already suspected years ago, that Dubas is a snake oil salesman.

As for health science teams, development teams, etc - every organization has those, so what makes Dubas implementation of them any different or special? What ultimately matters is the results on the ice, and judging by those alone he shoulda been terminated 3 years ago after a crushing loss to a bitter and historic rival.

 

[Brobust]

Minus

Ultimate momentum killer trade that set the team back years was the Kadri trade. The logic was a borderline top pair D-man rental with a solid 3C attached. I've never seen a more precipitous fall from grace than what Tyson Barrie endured here after actual hockey fans watched him play with regularity. And Kerfoot never player centre on this team.

Foligno deal. Not a killer, but hurt.

Choosing to attach a first to Marleau instead of Johnsson or Kapanen.

Milquetoast drafting. A lot of nickels and dimes and a couple of quarters even. Nothing to excite a fanbase outside of Knies.

Unearned faith in Holl and Kerfoot.

Plus

Team first process. Unlike other GMs, you never looked at a move and thought it was shortsighted and focused on saving their own skin.

Cap management was masterful. Unfortunately for him, the team enters a period of great flexibility without him at the helm.

Above average bargain hunter. Every team will occasionally find a sealed twinkie in the trash bin but Dubas was more consistent than most.

 

[saltming]

We got a pretty good peek behind the curtain in the last two weeks wouldn't you say? It revealed what many of us already suspected years ago, that Dubas is a snake oil salesman.

As for health science teams, development teams, etc - every organization has those, so what makes Dubas implementation of them any different or special? What ultimately matters is the results on the ice, and judging by those alone he shoulda been terminated 3 years ago after a crushing loss to a bitter and historic rival.

Do you recall how well we developed players pre-dubas?

On ice results, though some here disagree, includes regular season performance. Going from bubble bait to regular playoff appearances is an improvement in the on ice performance.
Was it enough to get us to the cup? Nope but there are too many factors to isolate Dubas alone in that.

If your thread says "comprehensive" you should be comprehensive in your information.

If you just want to dump on Dubas, then use a different thread title.

 

[Donnie740]

The most important thing is that Dubas has finally been fired and will no longer be around to mismanage the Leafs.

He was hopelessly unqualified for the job and shouldn’t have even been a consideration in the first place, better late than never to get rid of him.

Sorry about your luck, to Dubas and his Fan Boi Club.

 

[Kurtz]

Minus

Ultimate momentum killer trade that set the team back years was the Kadri trade. The logic was a borderline top pair D-man rental with a solid 3C attached. I've never seen a more precipitous fall from grace than what Tyson Barrie endured here after actual hockey fans watched him play with regularity. And Kerfoot never player centre on this team.

Foligno deal. Not a killer, but hurt.

Choosing to attach a first to Marleau instead of Johnsson or Kapanen.

Milquetoast drafting. A lot of nickels and dimes and a couple of quarters even. Nothing to excite a fanbase outside of Knies.

Unearned faith in Holl and Kerfoot.

Plus

Team first process. Unlike other GMs, you never looked at a move and thought it was shortsighted and focused on saving their own skin.

Cap management was masterful. Unfortunately for him, the team enters a period of great flexibility without him at the helm.

Above average bargain hunter. Every team will occasionally find a sealed twinkie in the trash bin but Dubas was more consistent than most.

Barrie was a monumental failure from our pro-scouting team. The moment we traded for him, AVS fans told us how inept he was defensively, so it wasn't like he fell apart the moment he came here.

They also told us about Kerfoot, and how he didn't have much ceiling, didn't excel when paired with superstars and wasn't much of a centre.

None of this should have been a surprise to a smart mgmt team. Maybe if Kyle read the AVS HF board before pulling the trigger that whole ordeal could have been avoided.

 

[ToneDog]

Barrie was a monumental failure from our pro-scouting team. The moment we traded for him, AVS fans told us how inept he was defensively, so it wasn't like he fell apart the moment he came here.

They also told us about Kerfoot, and how he didn't have much ceiling, didn't excel when paired with superstars and wasn't much of a centre.

None of this should have been a surprise to a smart mgmt team. Maybe if Kyle read the AVS HF board before pulling the trigger that whole ordeal could have been avoided.

It is an example of what happens when you force a trade which they did after Kadri refused to waive to go to Calgary. Guessing the order to trade Kadri came from above and Kyle and Shanny blew it.

 

[Trapper]

Unfortunately we have an 11m anchor that can’t skate in Tavares. A shifty, but slow Marner that can’t seem to adapt to the speed of playoff hockey.
It’s not only skill, but there are other elements that are required. Seems like these guys don’t have it in them.

People think it’s only skill. How many points did you get in the season. This guy scored 70 so he’s better than the guy who scored 50.

A team is fit, form and function.
Toss the most skilled guys together and it doesn't mean insta-win. This isn’t Team Canada or an All Star Game. Your skill needs will and some of it needs jam. Especially in the playoffs where dump and chase + board battles pick up. You can’t drop an extra 10 feet out of the action come playoffs.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

And very little draft picks. Smart enough to realize he had no chance to succeed here with the mess he was facing as Leafs GM. May as well bullshit his way to Pittsburgh and fool them into giving me a 5 year contract.

Thing is you definitely can turn this around. Retool or rebuild. What you can’t do is sit on your ass and let things play out

We need to be in talks with Matthews and nylander, we need to explore trading Marner, we need to find some talent in the FA. I also think we need a fleecing. That’s what dubas never did, he never fleeced anyone on a trade, only got sold Pennies for kadri. Apart from that trade, every other trade falls between mediocre to solid. We don’t have any big win, closest being god damn Timmins. Muzzin was solid, gio was ok, McCabe was solid, Campbell was average.


If dubas didnt want to fully commit, he can go kick rocks with Pittsburgh. Probably signs Zucker to a 6x6 or something

 

[ToneDog]

Thing is you definitely can turn this around. Retool or rebuild. What you can’t do is sit on your ass and let things play out

We need to be in talks with Matthews and nylander, we need to explore trading Marner, we need to find some talent in the FA. I also think we need a fleecing. That’s what dubas never did, he never fleeced anyone on a trade, only got sold Pennies for kadri. Apart from that trade, every other trade falls between mediocre to solid. We don’t have any big win, closest being god damn Timmins. Muzzin was solid, gio was ok, McCabe was solid, Campbell was average.


If dubas didnt want to fully commit, he can go kick rocks with Pittsburgh. Probably signs Zucker to a 6x6 or something

Dubas was usually on the wrong side of trades. Although he did fleece Pittsburgh for McCann.

 

[hamzarocks]

Holy f*** did you just use Bobby mcmann as a prospect

The D.D.L at it again with its finest. He’s left us with Matthews and nylander as a UFA next year, gave Marner a 2 year NMC

Only prospects he’s left us with is knies, Robertson and woll. Woll wasn’t getting dealt but fine add him in. Robertson is looking rough with injuries right now

Niemela hasn’t even played a full AHL season and Hirvonen put up LESS points this year compared to last.

He left us 1 top 6 prospect, 1 middle six prospect and mystery box of others

McMann for some reason is everyones current fetish despite being 26 years old

Hes much worse then Josh Leivo was who was a 3rd rounder that priduced in the NHL in small stints and had great stats in the AHL

Leivo is now a solid 4th liner

Leivo was a potential player back in 2016-2018 period for us when he was 23-25

McMann is 26 going 27 and people want to act like hes an actual prospect.

 

[Donnie740]

Dubas was usually on the wrong side of trades. Although he did fleece Pittsburgh for McCann.

And then promptly gave him away in the expansion draft because he didn’t want to lose Kerfoot or Justin Holl.

A competent GM would have been rejoicing that another team was dumb enough to take the overpaid Kerfoot or the worthless defensive liability Holl of their hands.

 

[Kurtz]

Dubas was usually on the wrong side of trades. Although he did fleece Pittsburgh for McCann.

He fleeced Pitt twice - on McCann and Kapanen deals.

No wonder Pitt wants him as a GM. They're under the false impression that he does that with regularity.

 

[ToneDog]

And then promptly gave him away in the expansion draft because he didn’t want to lose Kerfoot or Justin Holl.

A competent GM would have been rejoicing that another team was dumb enough to take the overpaid Kerfoot or the worthless defensive liability Holl of their hands.

Imagine Hyman, McCann, Knies and Bunts as our 4 LWers instead of Bunts, Jarnkrok, Kerfoot and Zar.

 

[Leaf Fans]

This is pretty solid. Thanks for doing this.

Question for Leaf Fans:

Why are the Dubas Robots still hanging around? Dubas is gone. It's time to do your due diligence and leave. Your identity has been tossed out.

Are there Dubas robots? They have joined the Dubites? Is the cult making a comeback?

 

[hamzarocks]

McCann scored 40 goals in 79 games this season, 27 goals in 74 games the year before that...and 14 goals in 43 games the year prior with Pittsburg...he is a much better player than Leivo...the most Leivo scored in a single season was 14 goals in 76 games...that was when Leivo was 25/26 and where he peaked (a year younger than McCann is now)...been downhill for Leivo since...played 54 games in the AHL in 21/22 season.

McMann not McCann lol

McCann would be a great winger t o have

McMann is 26 year old nothing