A Bridge Too Far

[Alan Ryan]

Getting really annoyed and fed up with comments like this. I live in MTL. I hate this city and team more than people care to know. I am a Bruins fan through and through. I work for a Junior team, scout, and also work as an educator. I understand the intricacies and different POV that are out there as well as the tough decisions that you encounter when evaluating a team, players, etc, much less a franchise worth close to a billion dollars.
However, I think it's wrong to constantly play Monday morning QB and go back in time in order to make your opinion fit the narrative you are addressing.
Don Sweeney has been on the job for 16 months. He's building the team through the draft. Cap problems have been alleviated. Prospect cupboard is full on every level. Team has missed playoffs the last 2 years with 96 and 93 pts respectively. Team was good enough to make it but the players failed. Last year at the deadline team was 4th in the NHL. No GM in history would have sold pieces at that time. DS is trying to rebuild through the draft and build around the core which just added another Top C in Backes. I repeat, how can GM do a full rebuild when core and team was playing very well and close to 100 pts?? Trade Loui at the deadline. move him at the draft, go get Shattenkirk. WTF man. DS tried to re-sign Loui and just staying in talks till the end was so smart. It gave him the chance to communicate with Backes as backup if Loui went elsewhere. He obviously wanted 6 years and to go play with Sedins so what did you want our GM to do?? Oops, i forgot. He traded Velveeta cheese Dougie Hamilton and everyone lost it on him. Anyone in their right mind with a touch of hockey IQ knows Hamilton did not have TOP Pairing D in his DNA. Soft, not intense, and definitely lost when it comes to the D part of his game. You know DEFEND, what a DEFENCEMAN is there to do. Didn't have Z cleaning up his mess in CALGARY did he? So, ya trade for Shattenkirk. Umm, Bruins just drafted a better, younger, more complete version this past June. Anyone notice how BAD he was in the playoffs!?? Exposed every night, time and time again. Brutal. So Sweeney trading for him and having to pay HIM 7M$ and take on another Blues contract was what everyone wanted our GM to do!?? Like seriously. Enough.
Everyone knows Bruins need a D on the top pairing. Even my grandma who is from the mountains of Friuli, Italy knows this. The season hasn't started yet people. Rookie camp is starting tomorrow. Btw, DS STILL HAS ALL HIS ASSETS. I think the players need to take responsibility here and make it happen. Miller, Morrow, Carlo, O' Gara,...etc..they want to be a part of the solution. Go out there and make it happen. The G depth is better now. Should push Rask and Subban. F depth is there. Moore, Nash, Mueller, are moves that are being made for next April. That's a good things. Stability and trust can be built early on and give one of the BEST coaches in the League options and versatility and experience to help with the peaks and valleys that will come into play with the younger players.
This team is on the right track. I know that 1D eludes our team still but maybe just maybe patience will serve well at this time.
Over and Out.
D

Thanks. You have expressed my sense of the Bruins at this point. They are on the right track--drafting well, assembling a talented and balanced group of forwards while preserving assets until the right deal for a defenseman materializes. And good young defensemen are on the way.

I believe they will make the playoffs this year and will be in the mix for many years to come.

 

[Oates2Neely]

It would have been a easier transition if Dougie was the franchise defenseman just about everyone thought he would be. Too bad it became clear the his defensive game would never be even "good enough."

So they had to cut bait. It became easier when Dougie didn't want to stay here and play for a coach that wouldn't just be happy to have Dougie's offensive game and live with the rest.

And thank God. The Bruins were tempted to keep him, play him in a top pair spot, and pay a tun to do it.

But anyway, if Dougie was the at least sorta well-rounded 1-2 D guy we'd be in a lot better shape. I'm sure the Bruins would have all out paid him and kissed his butt at that point. Maybe he'd still wanna play in Canada? But that would have really messed with the Bruins plan.

He's a young smooth skating top-4 dman with a large wing span. And he's making less than 6m per. Some of the leagues highest paid dmen are offensive minded with flaws in their own end (Karlsson Subban etc..). Either way, IMO the Bruins were better off with him or with a better return. Hamilton is far too young to be considered toast as some in here have suggested.

 

[finchster]

He's a young smooth skating top-4 dman with a large wing span. And he's making less than 6m per. Some of the leagues highest paid dmen are offensive minded with flaws in their own end (Karlsson Subban etc..). Either way, IMO the Bruins were better off with him or with a better return. Hamilton is far too young to be considered toast as some in here have suggested.

Posters here are spoiled watching Bourque and Orr, who were all- stars at both ends of the ice as soon as they entered the NHL. For the vast majority of defencemen, they don't start hitting their stride until their mid to late 20's. Defence can be learned, and it is often a case of a defencemen needing more practice to get it.

I am not saying Hamilton could be a Norris contender at any point, but writing off a 21-22 year old defencemen with his offensive skills because of a lack of defensive game is utter non-sense. I am sure he can become a top pairing offensive defencemen.

 

[ODAAT]

Spooner's deal is up. If Pasta, Vatrano and Colin Miller do well then there is more money as well, plus the want for a big ticket defenseman. After this year, Shattenkirk could have flew the coop so you'd be stuck only w Lehtera. Would have been a desperate move and I'm glad they passed.

and you didn`t even mention needing to sign #63

 

[ODAAT]

Posters here are spoiled watching Bourque and Orr, who were all- stars at both ends of the ice as soon as they entered the NHL. For the vast majority of defencemen, they don't start hitting their stride until their mid to late 20's. Defence can be learned, and it is often a case of a defencemen needing more practice to get it.

I am not saying Hamilton could be a Norris contender at any point, but writing off a 21-22 year old defencemen with his offensive skills because of a lack of defensive game is utter non-sense. I am sure he can become a top pairing offensive defencemen.

I feel the majority of posters here weren`t blessed with being old enough to watch Orr and Bourque, most are young, watched the B`s win it all a few years back, and think it`s simple to do, trade part A for part B and if/when a deal falls apart, it surely must be Sweeney who didn`t do enough to pull the trigger or he`s too afraid. I don`t and haven`t agreed with every move DS has made, or think Julien makes impeccable decisions behind the bench and couldn`t possibly be replaced by a legit candidate (and nope, no idea who that would be) but I think too many here act entitled

I`m almost sure the B`s didn`t "write off" Hamilton, did they not offer him a deal that was equal to or stronger than the one he signed in Calgary? He didn`t want to be in Boston, and he isn`t

 

[DKH]

Posters here are spoiled watching Bourque and Orr, who were all- stars at both ends of the ice as soon as they entered the NHL. For the vast majority of defencemen, they don't start hitting their stride until their mid to late 20's. Defence can be learned, and it is often a case of a defencemen needing more practice to get it.

I am not saying Hamilton could be a Norris contender at any point, but writing off a 21-22 year old defencemen with his offensive skills because of a lack of defensive game is utter non-sense. I am sure he can become a top pairing offensive defencemen.

He's right out of Central Casting but the worry is he's got to much Benoit Pouliot. He looks like he was made in a laboratory and can make highlight plays but his decision making and intangibles are starting to be questioned.

This is a big year for him.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

He's a young smooth skating top-4 dman with a large wing span. And he's making less than 6m per. Some of the leagues highest paid dmen are offensive minded with flaws in their own end (Karlsson Subban etc..). Either way, IMO the Bruins were better off with him or with a better return. Hamilton is far too young to be considered toast as some in here have suggested.

Hamilton was 5th on Calgary last year for D in TOI (behind Giordano, Brodie, and the much maligned Kris Russell and Denis Wideman). He clocked in at 19:46 per game or almost exactly the same TOI as Krug two seasons ago when he was a 3rd pair guy that also was a staple on the PP.

I don't think anybody thinks Hamilton is toast, but I also don't think he's the franchise type d-man the B's hoped he would be. And he's definitely not in the same conversation with either Karlsson or Subban.

 

[DKH]

Hamilton was 5th on Calgary last year for D in TOI (behind Giordano, Brodie, and the much maligned Kris Russell and Denis Wideman). He clocked in at 19:46 per game or almost exactly the same TOI as Krug two seasons ago when he was a 3rd pair guy that also was a staple on the PP.

I don't think anybody thinks Hamilton is toast, but I also don't think he's the franchise type d-man the B's hoped he would be. And he's definitely not in the same conversation with either Karlsson or Subban.

They realized 'yikes' and went about masking him. They shielded him against top lines and did the early Krug plan - get him on offensive zone faceoffs and not defensive.

I sit right in back of goal judge 1st & 3rd defend and Chara covered his ass which was to be expected. Hamilton though is a skater and a bit of a roamer which I sort of like.

But that's 180 degrees away from Claude's way.

Also, if you are going to roam a bit you need good wheels to recover which he has and high hockey IQ it looks like he doesn't

Calgary is going to be forced to be a max cap team with that talent and they can't carry a poor man's Torey Krug without the character

 

[Oates2Neely]

Hamilton was 5th on Calgary last year for D in TOI (behind Giordano, Brodie, and the much maligned Kris Russell and Denis Wideman). He clocked in at 19:46 per game or almost exactly the same TOI as Krug two seasons ago when he was a 3rd pair guy that also was a staple on the PP.

I don't think anybody thinks Hamilton is toast, but I also don't think he's the franchise type d-man the B's hoped he would be. And he's definitely not in the same conversation with either Karlsson or Subban.

He just turned 23 this summer. He's 6'6" and a RH shot. He already has two 40+ point seasons under his belt (including 43 this past season a career high for him). I don't think it's too far fetched to suggest that in 3 years time at age 26 Dougie will be better defensively than he is now whilst putting up 50+ point seasons regularly at a very modest 5.75m cap hit. The kid has game & time is on his side. Let's just hope Senshyn & Lauzon don't turn into Caron & Jonathan Girard.

 

[DKH]

He just turned 23 this summer. He's 6'6" and a RH shot. He already has two 40+ point seasons under his belt (including 43 this past season a career high for him). I don't think it's too far fetched to suggest that in 3 years time at age 26 Dougie will be better defensively than he is now whilst putting up 50+ point seasons regularly at a very modest 5.75m cap hit. The kid has game & time is on his side. Let's just hope Senshyn & Lauzon don't turn into Caron & Jonathan Girard.

I love it. You are putting all your eggs in the same basket. I am intrigued by your views since they run concurrent to mine. The good news is I don't know a heck of a lot

 

[Dr Quincy]

Hamilton was 5th on Calgary last year for D in TOI (behind Giordano, Brodie, and the much maligned Kris Russell and Denis Wideman). He clocked in at 19:46 per game or almost exactly the same TOI as Krug two seasons ago when he was a 3rd pair guy that also was a staple on the PP.

I don't think anybody thinks Hamilton is toast, but I also don't think he's the franchise type d-man the B's hoped he would be. And he's definitely not in the same conversation with either Karlsson or Subban.

ES he played more than Wideman (not sure about Russell, I can't seem to find his DAL/CGY splits, but I'll assume he did play more ES than Hamilton).

But the flaw in your analysis is that you are simply looking at TOI on 2 different teams in different years. Not all teams split up their D the same way. And usage changes a lot on different teams as far as special teams go (which is why looking at ES is better than just total TOI).

But a big flaw is not looking at the context. Brent Seabrook was 3rd in CHI in ES TOI. Dennis Seidenberg was 3rd in TOI on BOS. To call them both "#3 dmen" is completely inaccurate. Seabrook is a 2 not a 3, and Seidenberg is a replacement level player. So if Hamilton was a #4 2nd pair guy in ES TOI in CGY, that doesn't negate the fact that he would have been a #2 or #3 guy in Boston, which he was the year before, don't know why you left that out.

I'm not, and never have been a big Dougie fan. I see the same flaws you do, but he's a young #3 D that would have helped the B's a lot last year. In the end, maybe they are better off with what they got for him down the road, but right now I'd like to see you make the case that they would be worse with him.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

He just turned 23 this summer. He's 6'6" and a RH shot. He already has two 40+ point seasons under his belt (including 43 this past season a career high for him). I don't think it's too far fetched to suggest that in 3 years time at age 26 Dougie will be better defensively than he is now whilst putting up 50+ point seasons regularly at a very modest 5.75m cap hit. The kid has game & time is on his side. Let's just hope Senshyn & Lauzon don't turn into Caron & Jonathan Girard.

And there are also guys that will just never "get it" defensively also, regardless of their age. Dougie could just as easily fall into that category. He's young, but I think it's already pretty clear that the D part of the game is never going to be a strength. If people are OK with a good offensive PMD that gets pushed around in front of his own net by much smaller players, that's cool. Obviously, the B's thought he had the potential to change, otherwise Sweeney would not have offered him more money than Calgary. I have serious doubts about him ever developing into an "all around" player. Personally, I'm more of an underdog guy, so give me Krug every time.

 

[Oates2Neely]

And there are also guys that will just never "get it" defensively also, regardless of their age. Dougie could just as easily fall into that category. He's young, but I think it's already pretty clear that the D part of the game is never going to be a strength. If people are OK with a good offensive PMD that gets pushed around in front of his own net by much smaller players, that's cool. Obviously, the B's thought he had the potential to change, otherwise Sweeney would not have offered him more money than Calgary. I have serious doubts about him ever developing into an "all around" player. Personally, I'm more of an underdog guy, so give me Krug every time.

Agreed to an extent. I find it odd that as we kick dirt on Hamilton we are making proposals for Trouba including the likes of Pastrnak McAvoy 1st +. And he has the same question marks Hamilton has, is only 8 months younger, hasn't had the offensive success Dougie has...yet he's discussed around here as a would be savior. Young dmen are in extremely high demand. I stand by my belief that Sweeney sold himself short when he moved Hamilton for that package. Yes of course it's possible Sweeney's staff hit some home runs with those acquired picks, but it's just as possible that they become 4th line fodder & never become impact players. He sold for less than he should have, panic move. Other than that, I like what Sweeney has done thus far. Just wish he'd gotten more for Hamilton.

 

[BNHL]

He just turned 23 this summer. He's 6'6" and a RH shot. He already has two 40+ point seasons under his belt (including 43 this past season a career high for him). I don't think it's too far fetched to suggest that in 3 years time at age 26 Dougie will be better defensively than he is now whilst putting up 50+ point seasons regularly at a very modest 5.75m cap hit. The kid has game & time is on his side. Let's just hope Senshyn & Lauzon don't turn into Caron & Jonathan Girard.

Is he now 6'6"? When did that happen?

 

[Oates2Neely]

Is he now 6'6"? When did that happen?

He's always been listed as 6'6" on most sites. A few have him at 6'5" but the majority 6'6"

Getting off topic. Back to the bridge. I think the Bruins need a bridge to the bridge.

 

[Ice Nine]

Agreed to an extent. I find it odd that as we kick dirt on Hamilton we are making proposals for Trouba including the likes of Pastrnak McAvoy 1st +. And he has the same question marks Hamilton has, is only 8 months younger, hasn't had the offensive success Dougie has...yet he's discussed around here as a would be savior. Young dmen are in extremely high demand. I stand by my belief that Sweeney sold himself short when he moved Hamilton for that package. Yes of course it's possible Sweeney's staff hit some home runs with those acquired picks, but it's just as possible that they become 4th line fodder & never become impact players. He sold for less than he should have, panic move. Other than that, I like what Sweeney has done thus far. Just wish he'd gotten more for Hamilton.

Good post, and fair take on Sweeney. I think he's made some excellent moves, some very good moves, but some very weak/mediocre ones too. The Hamilton trade falls in the latter category.

We should have gotten a far better return for Dougie. The idea that Adam Larsson is so far superior to Hamilton, that his sale could command a high end talent and elite player like Taylor Hall, whilst Hamilton only a 1st and two low 2nds is laughable. Should have been patient, used the B's leverage (he was an RFA) and shopped him around.

And agree on Trouba too -- not at all been impressed by him; think we'd be better with him (of course, our D is quite bad at the moment) and given he easily has more question marks than Dougie, or just as many, find it funny how much people are willing to throw at Winnipeg for him (Pasta + 1st + Zboril + Kitchen Sink + Keys to the Buick + 2nd Mortgage), while people on here write off Hamilton at age 23.

Never had the privilege to watch Orr, was before my time but certainly heard enough of his exploits from the old man, but grew up watching Bourque. We probably won't see another Bourque in our time for the B's, and we shouldn't expect our young D to achieve that level. I'm not sure anyone in the game today will achieve that level either (maybe Ekblad, Weber/Keith might be there too).

 

[JoeIsAStud]

Good post, and fair take on Sweeney. I think he's made some excellent moves, some very good moves, but some very weak/mediocre ones too. The Hamilton trade falls in the latter category.

We should have gotten a far better return for Dougie. The idea that Adam Larsson is so far superior to Hamilton, that his sale could command a high end talent and elite player like Taylor Hall, whilst Hamilton only a 1st and two low 2nds is laughable. Should have been patient, used the B's leverage (he was an RFA) and shopped him around.

And agree on Trouba too -- not at all been impressed by him; think we'd be better with him (of course, our D is quite bad at the moment) and given he easily has more question marks than Dougie, or just as many, find it funny how much people are willing to throw at Winnipeg for him (Pasta + 1st + Zboril + Kitchen Sink + Keys to the Buick + 2nd Mortgage), while people on here write off Hamilton at age 23.

I agree with you on Trouba, I am not sold on him being as good a player as Hamilton, forget a better player. He is far less skilled offensively, and yet still has the Hamilton brain farts in his own end.

In terms of Hamilton's trade value. I think in the abstract a mid first round pick and 2 #'s wasn't a great return for him. I don't think Boston could trade a #1 and 2 #2's and come anywhere close to the same return. But this was made at the draft in what looks like a great draft.

That said, if Senyshyn becomes a 30 goal scoring RW, and Lauzon and Carlo develop into top 4 defenseman for the team for a decade then Sweeney looks like a genius.

 

[DKH]

I agree with you on Trouba, I am not sold on him being as good a player as Hamilton, forget a better player. He is far less skilled offensively, and yet still has the Hamilton brain farts in his own end.

In terms of Hamilton's trade value. I think in the abstract a mid first round pick and 2 #'s wasn't a great return for him. I don't think Boston could trade a #1 and 2 #2's and come anywhere close to the same return. But this was made at the draft in what looks like a great draft.

That said, if Senyshyn becomes a 30 goal scoring RW, and Lauzon and Carlo develop into top 4 defenseman for the team for a decade then Sweeney looks like a genius.

What was the negotiationed compensation for a $5.5 M contract offer sheet

Happy belated birthday

 

[JoeIsAStud]

What was the negotiationed compensation for a $5.5 M contract offer sheet

Happy belated birthday

Thanks.

So there are at least a handful of pretty good defenseman who are RFA and still have not signed. At least one of whom seems to pretty clearly not go back to his current team (Trouba). Do you think anyone will trade us one for a first and 2 seconds? Because I would happily offer that

 

[DKH]

Thanks.

So there are at least a handful of pretty good defenseman who are RFA and still have not signed. At least one of whom seems to pretty clearly not go back to his current team (Trouba). Do you think anyone will trade us one for a first and 2 seconds? Because I would happily offer that

No way

I just don't think Dougie is elite. I'd rather have Torey Krug.

If Hamilton was a top pair but he's at best a second pair.

Time will tell but his size and skating have people overrating him

 

[finchster]

He's right out of Central Casting but the worry is he's got to much Benoit Pouliot. He looks like he was made in a laboratory and can make highlight plays but his decision making and intangibles are starting to be questioned.

This is a big year for him.

I think we can all agree that Hamilton wasn't going to be a 'franchise defencemen", but then so what? Players of that mold are useful too.

Considering his offensive skills, his development probably fits into this group of offensive defencemen but not Norris level guys.

Ozolinsh, Kaberle, (low end)
Numminen, Jovanovski, (mid)
Gonchar, Boyle, Rafalski (high)

Hamilton will probably fit somewhere in one of these groups.

I'd be pretty happy with any of these players stepping out from the past and getting on the Bruins defence today.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

No way

I just don't think Dougie is elite. I'd rather have Torey Krug.

If Hamilton was a top pair but he's at best a second pair.

Time will tell but his size and skating have people overrating him

I'm not sure I agree with you on the fact that the guy isn't "top pair". But, I think you are onto something with the size and skating. He actually reminds me a little of Matt Hunwick as far as skating. Of course, Hunwick didn't have the size, but people would marvel at his skating technique. It was pretty to watch in a game, but he wasn't the fastest guy out there and he wasn't exactly a "heavy" defender (which Dougie is not either). Proper form and size are nice assets, but it's a questionable asset when the overall effectiveness isn't as high as you'd imagine.

Every time great skating technique gets brought up, just remember there are guys like Michael Ryder who enjoyed years as a top tier sniper in the league, yet had a skating technique which resembled an inexperienced peewee player.

 

[Oates2Neely]

No way

I just don't think Dougie is elite. I'd rather have Torey Krug.

If Hamilton was a top pair but he's at best a second pair.

Time will tell but his size and skating have people overrating him

Possibly two 40+ point seasons by the age of 22 have something to do with that also.

Just curious, do you value Trouba more than Hamilton?

 

[ODAAT]

No way

I just don't think Dougie is elite. I'd rather have Torey Krug.

If Hamilton was a top pair but he's at best a second pair.

Time will tell but his size and skating have people overrating him

I don`t get the impression that Dougie has the drive/will to be the best. With Krug, it always seems like he`s working on something, trying to get the max out of himself. With Dougie, it appears he`s perfectly content racking up pts, being ok but not great in his zone etc..

 

[BNHL]

He's always been listed as 6'6" on most sites. A few have him at 6'5" but the majority 6'6"

Getting off topic. Back to the bridge. I think the Bruins need a bridge to the bridge.

Always thought he was listed at 6'4" as a Bruin