A Bridge Too Far

[BruinsBtn]

The goal for the off-season, no doubt, was to improve the defense and he didn't. That's failure.

Saying that the prices were too high is admitting he sold too low on Hamilton. If he would have held onto him longer he probably could have swapped him for Trouba, Brodin or some other young defenseman.

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

I think most of us understand a rebuild.

Don't waste 2nd round picks on the likes of Liles and Stempniak, while not trading Eriksson at the deadline then!!

That is the black mark on Sweeney resume last year.

 

[Beesfan]

We need at least two young d prospects to emerge this camp and show that they will make a major contribution either this year or next year.

Colin Miller has to emerge this year.

One of Morrow, O'Gara, Grzelcyk or Carlo has to show they are extremely close to being a top 4 defender.

That is the only way to bridge the gap. If it doesn't happen, we might as well do a complete rebuild.

 

[VanIsle]

I think most of us understand a rebuild.

Don't waste 2nd round picks on the likes of Liles and Stempniak, while not trading Eriksson at the deadline then!!

An Eriksson and Koko package could have brought in something decent, too bad we will never know, but this team could have had that player along with Backes.

I am excited about the future defense if it all pans out, but there have been more players than not that did not meet expectations.

What I am trying to say is I miss the powerhouse Bruins when everything was clicking and this team was tops in the league not to long ago.

Oh well at least I have the Steelers and Red Sox.

 

[RustyBruins72]

One of my favorite movies as well. Eastwood and Sutherland were great in this.

Gavin McLeod was terrific as well.

"That ain't my fault, Oddball, I've done nothing but have good thoughts about that damn bridge ever since we left! "

 

[Dr Quincy]

But if they had made the playoffs they would have had the gorilla off their backs. They would have given Tampa a series and then who knows?

Would Rask have gone in game 1? Would others have come down with the flu from him? They may have gone on a run, but I think Tampa would have been too much for them.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Would Rask have gone in game 1? Would others have come down with the flu from him? They may have gone on a run, but I think Tampa would have been too much for them.

Agreed.

I think the B's could have made some noise, but they could have just as easily crashed and burned.

 

[Mathews28]

SInce this thread started with a Sox reference, it made me think the following. I remember reading something, well before 2010, where Epstein had sad that the Sox could compete (IIRC) about 7 out of every 10 years. That was the plan, and it seem to me that the Sox fans I know who were aware of this approach were totally accepting. You occasionally back off to retool, and go for it (add pieces) when the opportunity presents itself.

While the current squad is battling for playoff contention, I'd submit that "the plan," if executed a bit more precisely, would have resulted in a 2016 Sox squad that would be a fair amount of wins better.

The glitch I see? Adding about $40m of payroll in Hanley AND the Panda, when half of those $ could have secured another stud pitcher.

Imagine this current squad with Price, Porcello, et al and another ace?

Would be a WS favorite.

 

[DKH]

There is a thread on the Black Hawks here to fire Bowman. There are posters who said they'd rather have had Saad, Buf, TT, Shaw for years instead of loading up for a Cup. The Saad haters are numerous

 

[TheBigBadB]

Problem was they were in first place in division and second in Conference

No team in the history of sports that I know became sellers at the trade deadline when they were in first or that close

I went back and looked and found some of the biggest critics today were ecstatic mid March with Sweeney's move - hilarious

Good great, they could have stand pat too. In the history of sports teams do stand pat! Doesn't mean you are either a seller or buyer. If they were in first place why mess with it? They could have still missed the playoffs and kept their picks.

 

[Bmessy]

Starting Chara, McQuaid, and K. Miller in your top 4 two years in a row doesn't really make me think their long term goal is transitional defense.

I get not wanting to overpay for help. However, we don't just need a #1 Dman of the future... we also need the #2 and #4 Dman of the future. (assuming Krug is atleast the #3.)

I don't want them to trade for a #1. I want them to first acquire a 2nd pairing defensemen around mid to late 20s who can be here for the "bridge" to the future. 2 top 4 dmen is better than 1 right?

I understand rolling with your teams strengths and not making a panic move. We are now a team where the offensive talent heavily outweighs our bad defense. But we play a defensive style...

Is a team with a poor defense the best kind of team for Claude Julien to run? I think he's a great coach, but can he coach a middling team that requires young players to develop? I hope he can. We should know by mid season if Miller or Morrow are worth keeping around. I hope they play more than every other night.

I'm just saying, if we're about to accept we need a transition period and are fine with waiting it out till our prospects develop, let's have the whole organization have the same value.

I'm just not seeing consistency between the roster/coach/and organizational goals. I still think we can be a playoff with who we got, if we're lucky and don't collapse. I got bigger goals in mind though.

What I see right now is an organization content with being way behind the 8 ball on the defensive transition game despite how they "want to win now". That's the product they put on the ice so that's what I think they believe will win. I don't agree with it so I'll just watch from home. Well, actually, I cut cable. So I'll watch Kevan Miller lay on the ice with his eyes closed maybe once a week via stream.

 

[Blowfish]

Good great, they could have stand pat too. In the history of sports teams do stand pat! Doesn't mean you are either a seller or buyer. If they were in first place why mess with it? They could have still missed the playoffs and kept their picks.

What does doing nothing tell the fan base. For me I'm looking forward to youth movement however wasn't upset with the attempt to prepare for a playoff run. Not like the Bruins gave up a top 10 draft pick. And with prospects nothing is ever gauranteed. Yes gave of a draft pick or 2. Who cares. I'm glad they tried to upgrade.

 

[TheBigBadB]

What does doing nothing tell the fan base. For me I'm looking forward to youth movement however wasn't upset with the attempt to prepare for a playoff run. Not like the Bruins gave up a top 10 draft pick. And with prospects nothing is ever gauranteed. Yes gave of a draft pick or 2. Who cares. I'm glad they tried to upgrade.

If they got something worth it, but they got marginal players that weren't any better than what we had.

 

[Oates2Neely]

If a bridge is the case (a long bridge because I don't see any of the young dmen becoming impact roster players for at least another 3 years) then maybe it would've been wise to shop Krejci Chara & not sign Backes? Just roll with Bergeron & Marchand as the veteran forwards.

Also, a goaltending prospect would be nice. Someone who could really apply pressure to Rask. Perhaps even force the teams hand into trading his 7m contract. I think Malcom Subban looks like a swing & miss.

 

[Estlin]

That is the black mark on Sweeney resume last year.

Agreed.

Also, a goaltending prospect would be nice. Someone who could really apply pressure to Rask. Perhaps even force the teams hand into trading his 7m contract. I think Malcom Subban looks like a swing & miss.

I think that it's too early to give up on Subban. Let's see how he does in Providence with an (I hope) injury-free season.

 

[Blowfish]

If they got something worth it, but they got marginal players that weren't any better than what we had.

Those marginal players for the most part made the bruin players look marginal.

 

[DKH]

Starting Chara, McQuaid, and K. Miller in your top 4 two years in a row doesn't really make me think their long term goal is transitional defense.

I get not wanting to overpay for help. However, we don't just need a #1 Dman of the future... we also need the #2 and #4 Dman of the future. (assuming Krug is atleast the #3.)

I don't want them to trade for a #1. I want them to first acquire a 2nd pairing defensemen around mid to late 20s who can be here for the "bridge" to the future. 2 top 4 dmen is better than 1 right?

I understand rolling with your teams strengths and not making a panic move. We are now a team where the offensive talent heavily outweighs our bad defense. But we play a defensive style...

Is a team with a **** defense the best kind of team for Claude Julien to run? I think he's a great coach, but can he coach a middling team that requires young players to develop? I hope he can. We should know by mid season if Miller or Morrow are worth keeping around. I hope they play more than every other night.

I'm just saying, if we're about to accept we need a transition period and are fine with waiting it out till our prospects develop, let's have the whole organization have the same value.

"Hey Claude, coach this team to the playoffs. I won't provided you with what you need in order to do so, but just do it your way. Work with what ya got. We have these young D who could use ice time, but play who you want. We're gunna sit back here and wait for a few years and hope we struck gold with our 9 picks in 2 years."

I'm just not seeing consistency between the roster/coach/and organizational goals. I still think we can be a playoff with who we got, if we're lucky and don't collapse. I got bigger goals in mind though.

What I see right now is an organization content with being way behind the 8 ball on the defensive transition game. That's the product they put on the ice so that's what I think they believe will win. I don't agree with it so I'll just watch from home. Well, actually, I cut cable. So I'll watch Kevan Miller lay on the ice with his eyes closed maybe once a week via stream.

Like my Dad yelled at the TV this past season... "Skating the puck up the ice is a dream they haven't even had yet." It's horrid to watch

Huh? An organization way behind the 8 Ball in the transition game. Um what type of players did they just draft on defense last 2 years - Lauzon Johanssen McAvoy Zboril Carlo Lindgren

How is that being behind the 8 ball

From 2010-2014 they were in 2 Cup Finals and won the Presidents Trophy in 2014.

It's 2016 and they've addressed it

I'm an idiot I don't understand what you guys are seeing I really don't

 

[Bmessy]

Huh? An organization way behind the 8 Ball in the transition game. Um what type of players did they just draft on defense last 2 years - Lauzon Johanssen McAvoy Zboril Carlo Lindgren

How is that being behind the 8 ball

From 2010-2014 they were in 2 Cup Finals and won the Presidents Trophy in 2014.

It's 2016 and they've addressed it

I'm an idiot I don't understand what you guys are seeing I really don't

The product they are actually icing every night is behind the 8 ball. The players that they roster to play in the NHL. The one we pay to watch

Drafting propspects is great, a step in the right direction. I have a question, how long do you realistically think it will take for some of those defenseman that you listed to make it to the NHL?

Bottom line is it doesn't fix the travesty we have on the backend for the last 2 years and the next 2 years. They should bite the bullet and try and patch the holes (just one hole, even!) that poor management/drafting the last 5 years has left on the NHL defense.

 

[Ratty]

There is a thread on the Black Hawks here to fire Bowman. There are posters who said they'd rather have had Saad, Buf, TT, Shaw for years instead of loading up for a Cup. The Saad haters are numerous

Don't see how 'Hawks fans could "hate" on Saad if they wish he weren't traded. And certainly Blue Jackets have to be ecstatic over his production (31G, 22A, 53T).

 

[DKH]

Don't see how 'Hawks fans could "hate" on Saad if they wish he weren't traded. And certainly Blue Jackets have to be ecstatic over his production (31G, 22A, 53T).

They don't hate Saad, they hate he was traded. They were discussing why waste time buying jerseys other than Toews, Keith, Kane, and Seabrooke.

 

[alg363636]

Dan, you and I have discussed this before, but here's where I am.

I get it. I understand what they're trying to do. They need to re-stock the prospect cupboard without throwing away these years of Krejci, Bergeron, Marchand and Rask.

However, here's my concern. When do these prospects pan out? We are primarily waiting for the defensive prospects and those are notoriously slow developers. Look around the league - there are not a lot of top 4 who are rookies or second year guys and most of the ones out there are pretty high profile guys. And looking at our roster we are hoping 3 of the prospects in our system will be top 4 guys since Krug is the only one we already have. Even if every single defensive prospect hits their ceiling (which they won't), at the earliest they'll be ready for competing in say, 3-4 years.

Now I just wonder, are guys like Bergeron, Krejci and Marchand content to sit around and wait that long for the defense to pan out? I can tell you Tuukka most probably isn't. How good will they all be in 4 years? What does the Backes signing look like in 4 years? And I'm going to go ahead and say I don't see too much playoff action from us in those bridge years. So we continue to hover in the NHL purgatory of picking 8-14 and kids like Pasta and Spooner don't get any playoff experience.

So to summarize - I think our forwards and our defense are on completely different wavelengths. I think our forwards are top tier in the NHL and our defense is bottom of the bunch. And maybe it will work out but if it doesn't, we continue on this sad path of being good, but not great.

I'm not saying you're wrong and lord knows I want you to be right - however I think this is a lot of the concern people are having about this plan and where it might end up. At least that's where I am.

Great post and thread though Dan, always a treat to read your insight.

 

[Mathews28]

If 20% of these stellar young Dmen make the grade, that's probably about average. So what's that mean...2 of em?

If 3 or 4 are playing for the Bs in 2-3 years, at a fairly high level, that's awesome.

In the meantime...and this is what a lot of posters are struggling with....the Bs roll with Chara as their #1. That's not good.

I think I'm less critical of McQuaid, KMiller, etc than many here, but reality is that a D full of 4's and 5's and 6's (not lumping Krug in with them) is going to cost the Bs while they wait for the heir apparents to develop.

 

[DKH]

Dan, you and I have discussed this before, but here's where I am.

I get it. I understand what they're trying to do. They need to re-stock the prospect cupboard without throwing away these years of Krejci, Bergeron, Marchand and Rask.

However, here's my concern. When do these prospects pan out? We are primarily waiting for the defensive prospects and those are notoriously slow developers. Look around the league - there are not a lot of top 4 who are rookies or second year guys and most of the ones out there are pretty high profile guys. And looking at our roster we are hoping 3 of the prospects in our system will be top 4 guys since Krug is the only one we already have. Even if every single defensive prospect hits their ceiling (which they won't), at the earliest they'll be ready for competing in say, 3-4 years.

Now I just wonder, are guys like Bergeron, Krejci and Marchand content to sit around and wait that long for the defense to pan out? I can tell you Tuukka most probably isn't. How good will they all be in 4 years? What does the Backes signing look like in 4 years? And I'm going to go ahead and say I don't see too much playoff action from us in those bridge years. So we continue to hover in the NHL purgatory of picking 8-14 and kids like Pasta and Spooner don't get any playoff experience.

So to summarize - I think our forwards and our defense are on completely different wavelengths. I think our forwards are top tier in the NHL and our defense is bottom of the bunch. And maybe it will work out but if it doesn't, we continue on this sad path of being good, but not great.

I'm not saying you're wrong and lord knows I want you to be right - however I think this is a lot of the concern people are having about this plan and where it might end up. At least that's where I am.

Great post and thread though Dan, always a treat to read your insight.

The plan seems simple but has one flaw

The plan is
1. 'Turnover the defense' into mobile 4 way skates who can retrieve pucks and defend

Implementation- they drafted Zboril Carlo Lauzon Johansen McAvoy & Lindgren in last 15 months, traded for Colin Miller, and signed previous picks 4 year college stars Matt Grzelcyk & Rob OGara

2. 200 foot/3 zone centers

They were already strong here with Bergeron and Krejci. They have the developing Ryan Spooner who has the offense already
Implementation- they have drafted high end potential top 2 line centers in Donato and JFK. I saw them both at least twice last year live with friends who know more than me on this and they both stood out.

They drafted Frederic, signed top college FA Czarnik & Acciari. I did not see Czarnik in college but I saw him at least a half dozen times in Providence including his playoff hat trick. Acciari I watched in college in the AHL and Boston. I love this kid. I read others saying he's a stiff and I dismiss it to either ignorance or idiocy depending my view of who wrote it.

They signed Backes also a 200 foot/3 zone player

3. Wingers that go to the net

Explains why they went for Sensyshyn & DeBrusk (and in full disclosure when it came to wingers here I wanted Connor & Kopecny)

But that was there idea

They have Marchand and signed Beleskey who scored 30 goals 2 years ago with Ducks with 8 in the playoffs; and have Pasta who leads the 2014 forwards in goals

They've drafted well here recently and signed who Kirk Leudeke said was the premier college FA in Vatrano.

1. Mobile D, 2. Three zone centers, 3. Wings that go to the net

The Flaw- Bruins fans have 0.0 patience and want to go to sleep and wake up with a Stanley Cup contender where the biggest concern is 'can Chris Bourque be our third line winger.'

If Jacobs is impatient I really hope he gets Jeff Gorton away from the Rangers.

I want to see Bruins fans reactions to his constant trading of first round picks and massive overpays in trades

I won't defend the next guy

As Gordon Howe likes to say be careful what you wish for

Funny thing the joke will end up being on him and most of the Bruins fans

 

[DKH]

If 20% of these stellar young Dmen make the grade, that's probably about average. So what's that mean...2 of em?

If 3 or 4 are playing for the Bs in 2-3 years, at a fairly high level, that's awesome.

In the meantime...and this is what a lot of posters are struggling with....the Bs roll with Chara as their #1. That's not good.

I think I'm less critical of McQuaid, KMiller, etc than many here, but reality is that a D full of 4's and 5's and 6's (not lumping Krug in with them) is going to cost the Bs while they wait for the heir apparents to develop.

I remember when they drafted Bourque & McCrimmon and I was told McCrimmon would be a bust - no way Boston hits on both. Same with Wesley & Quintell.

I believe they all played over 1000 games in the NHL

I see Zboril & McAvoy both playing a long time so under your % the other 8 never make it.

 

[Fopppa]

If a bridge is the case (a long bridge because I don't see any of the young dmen becoming impact roster players for at least another 3 years) then maybe it would've been wise to shop Krejci Chara & not sign Backes? Just roll with Bergeron & Marchand as the veteran forwards.

Also, a goaltending prospect would be nice. Someone who could really apply pressure to Rask. Perhaps even force the teams hand into trading his 7m contract. I think Malcom Subban looks like a swing & miss.

...and sit back and watch the reaction of "I can't believe they traded Krejci for that" or similar. Not to mention they both have NTCs, so it was likely never an option.

Not everything is sunshine and lollipops, but the negativity around this place is getting very tiresome.