9 States with No Income Tax - NHL CAP

Throw More Waffles

Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
Oct 9, 2015
12,947
9,902
Is this as big of a deal in other sports? I’ve never heard this in the MLB or NBA. I’ve sometimes heard it in the NFL when it comes to the Florida teams but not as big of a deal.
It was also barely talked about in hockey until recently. Pretty much when Duabs handed out those overpayments to the leafs players. Instead of just accepting a rookie gm is bad at his job, everyone blamed it on taxes and the whole topic blew up out of nowhere.
 

Crede777

Deputized
Dec 16, 2009
14,836
4,549
The NHL doesn't seem to be concerned about the impact of taxes on player salaries and they probably shouldn't be.

What they should be somewhat concerned about is players taking discounts to stack a few teams and make runs at multiple Cups. That's a problem the NBA is currently dealing with and would be extremely hazardous for the NHL due to its reliance upon attendance sales.
 

Golden_Jet

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
26,014
13,434
Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and Wyoming — have no income taxes "state".

Kraken, Knights, Panthers, and the Lightning.

Each of these teams have a clear advantage over the rest of the league. Each of these teams work within CAP framework plus added room when one factor's tax break to negotiate contracts.

Is this something the NHL will consider next collective agreement?

what about Canadian teams getting CDN revenues and paying US dollars, that’s worse than the tax issue.
You pay tax in each state you play in, so TB does pay state tax on over 30 games....
But this has been beaten to death
 

Legion34

Registered User
Jan 24, 2006
18,980
8,999
It was also barely talked about in hockey until recently. Pretty much when Duabs handed out those overpayments to the leafs players. Instead of just accepting a rookie gm is bad at his job, everyone blamed it on taxes and the whole topic blew up out of nowhere.

actually that again is not true. TSN had a tax calculator for Stamkos that was on the front page of their site which was before dubas


Multiple agents GMs and players had commented on it for years prior to dubas.

Your obsession is sad.

How taxes could impact Stamkos signing with Maple Leafs - Sportsnet.ca
 
Last edited:

DudeWhereIsMakar

Bergevin sent me an offer sheet
Apr 25, 2014
15,984
7,039
Winnipeg
My proposal was to take tax out of the salary cap and boost or lower the tax depending on what team they play for so it makes it irrelevant, bottom line being you're making the promised money wherever you play.
 

pbgoalie

Registered User
Aug 8, 2010
5,989
3,574
I do understand the arguments to a point

but there is more to this than state income taxes

state income
Sales tax
Property taxes
Income taxes paid in “away” cities
City taxes for sales etc
 
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Golden_Jet

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
26,014
13,434
My proposal was to take tax out of the salary cap and boost or lower the tax depending on what team they play for so it makes it irrelevant, bottom line being you're making the promised money wherever you play.

Does the proposal include the difference on the Canadian dollar.
 

Bringer of Jollity

Registered User
Oct 20, 2011
13,734
9,156
Fontana, CA
The salary cap is a failure anyway. Tampa are making it very obvious this year, but a lot of other teams like Toronto are trying very hard too. Others have taken bad contracts to make it to the floor in the past too like Arizona (constantly) and Ottawa. Or just tank in general which the floor is suppose to prevent (Oilers, Toronto, Buffalo, Ottawa, New Jersey, New York, Tampa etc. etc. etc.).

There are now known mechanismes to circumvent the cap, teams are using it very openly and the league isn't doing anything (not sure they can anyway)
The salary cap was implemented to achieve "cost certainty" for the league. Based on the overall financial health of the league and the steadily increasing revenue, it has not been a failure in any way.
 

ole ole

Registered User
Oct 7, 2017
11,998
6,086
My proposal was to take tax out of the salary cap and boost or lower the tax depending on what team they play for so it makes it irrelevant, bottom line being you're making the promised money wherever you play.
You nailed it. Take taxes out of the cap and it becomes a level playing field.
 

jkrdevil

UnRegistered User
Apr 24, 2006
43,124
13,170
Miami
Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and Wyoming — have no income taxes "state".

Kraken, Knights, Panthers, and the Lightning.

Each of these teams have a clear advantage over the rest of the league. Each of these teams work within CAP framework plus added room when one factor's tax break to negotiate contracts.

Is this something the NHL will consider next collective agreement?

**taps sign** The Salary Cap is not in place to improve competitive balance. The Salary Cap is in place to control spending.

Whether the money goes to the player or the government after the teams spend it isn’t the league’s concern.
 

ER89

Registered User
Jul 25, 2018
4,700
4,739
You’re the one who said NJ is boring though. Look at a map. Newark is right next to NYC. Anyone playing for the Devils has access to the same stuff as anyone playing for the Rangers.
Maybe you should tell the players to look at a map when they continue to go to the rags over the devils.
 

Hockey Outsider

Registered User
Jan 16, 2005
9,450
15,653
Here's an old post I made on this topic. Equalizing the salary cap for income taxes is far more complicated than many people seem to think.

====

After-tax income is much more difficult to quantify than many people think. A partial (but incomplete) list of factors that need to be taken into account:
  • Marginal vs average tax rate - All NHL players would face the highest marginal tax rate on their remuneration, but their effective tax rate would always be lower due to the fact their income passes through the lower tax brackets first. So we couldn't calculate a general after-tax salary cap at the team level - it would have to be calculated separately for every player.
  • Legal residency - It's possible for a player to live in Canada but be a resident, for tax purposes, of the US (or vice versa). Thus, a player might be employed by an American team, but would be a resident of Canada. Effectively, that player would be paying tax at the Canadian rate, despite playing for a US team.
  • Signing bonus - The above point is further complicated by signing bonuses. There are specific provisions in the Canada/US tax treaty that effectively limit signing bonuses, paid by Canadian teams, to be taxed at that individual's US combined federal/state rate. So a Canadian team can pay a huge signing bonus to an American resident without any disadvantage from a tax perspective (Auston Matthews is a good example).
  • Deductions - In general, US taxpayers can deduct agent fees, while Canadian players can't. Should this be taken into account? Why or why not? Similarly, Canadian residents can establish and RCA, which can provide significant tax benefits if used properly. Should that be taken into account? Who makes these decisions?
  • Jock taxes - Several jurisdictions tax athletes on a pro-rated portion of their income based on when games are played - so you'd need to take the schedule into account, for every player, to get an accurate estimate of their after-tax income.
A comprehensive list of factors that need to be considered would be much longer. But even these points should indicate that calculating an after-tax salary cap would be a convoluted ordeal, and it would have to be constantly updated as facts change. The league would probably have to pay lawyers or accountants several hundred thousand dollars to do this.

From the owners' perspective, the value of this information isn't worth the cost - so taxes remain one of numerous inequalities between cities including cost of living, endorsement opportunities, climate, nightlife, etc.
 

Golden_Jet

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
26,014
13,434
You nailed it. Take taxes out of the cap and it becomes a level playing field.

only problem then is, the teams with a higher tax bracket, in essence have a higher cap number to offset it, as HRR is still 50/50.

So I don’t see how it works plus you also have to include 20-25% more for CDN teams with the dollar exchange.
 

tucker3434

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Apr 7, 2007
20,294
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Atlanta, GA
Here's an old post I made on this topic. Equalizing the salary cap for income taxes is far more complicated than many people seem to think.

====

After-tax income is much more difficult to quantify than many people think. A partial (but incomplete) list of factors that need to be taken into account:
  • Marginal vs average tax rate - All NHL players would face the highest marginal tax rate on their remuneration, but their effective tax rate would always be lower due to the fact their income passes through the lower tax brackets first. So we couldn't calculate a general after-tax salary cap at the team level - it would have to be calculated separately for every player.
  • Legal residency - It's possible for a player to live in Canada but be a resident, for tax purposes, of the US (or vice versa). Thus, a player might be employed by an American team, but would be a resident of Canada. Effectively, that player would be paying tax at the Canadian rate, despite playing for a US team.
  • Signing bonus - The above point is further complicated by signing bonuses. There are specific provisions in the Canada/US tax treaty that effectively limit signing bonuses, paid by Canadian teams, to be taxed at that individual's US combined federal/state rate. So a Canadian team can pay a huge signing bonus to an American resident without any disadvantage from a tax perspective (Auston Matthews is a good example).
  • Deductions - In general, US taxpayers can deduct agent fees, while Canadian players can't. Should this be taken into account? Why or why not? Similarly, Canadian residents can establish and RCA, which can provide significant tax benefits if used properly. Should that be taken into account? Who makes these decisions?
  • Jock taxes - Several jurisdictions tax athletes on a pro-rated portion of their income based on when games are played - so you'd need to take the schedule into account, for every player, to get an accurate estimate of their after-tax income.
A comprehensive list of factors that need to be considered would be much longer. But even these points should indicate that calculating an after-tax salary cap would be a convoluted ordeal, and it would have to be constantly updated as facts change. The league would probably have to pay lawyers or accountants several hundred thousand dollars to do this.

From the owners' perspective, the value of this information isn't worth the cost - so taxes remain one of numerous inequalities between cities including cost of living, endorsement opportunities, climate, nightlife, etc.

And after all that for the income taxes, you'd have to figure out sales and property taxes too. It isn't a coincidence Texas has some of the highest property taxes or Tennessee some of the highest sales taxes. Why shouldn't that be factored in? It's not hundreds of thousands in fees, it's millions and it's recurring.

Playing devil's advocate, the best, most reasonable, idea I can come up with is a cost of living multiplier that's attached to each contract that is considered after-cap. That multiplier would be a schedule released annually. But even that would require some considerable compliance cost and (I'm sure) endless arguing. And in the end, as you said, the value isn't worth the cost. I doubt this is an issue the owners are even considering.
 
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