GDT: #71 | Blue Jackets at FLYERS | Thu., Mar. 15, 2018, 7:00 pm ET | NBCSP, FS-O

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JojoTheWhale

"You should keep it." -- Striiker
May 22, 2008
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Everything gets painted with too wide of a brush. That's how the internet works. This board doesn't think X and the "contrarians" don't think Y. Opinions are individual.

Not every prospect needs to be rushed along, but there are two specific reasons every argument comes back to Sanheim -- he was a cut above the rest as a prospect and he was already on the roster and effective in repeatable ways in the NHL. If you want to argue the former point, I don't agree, but fair enough. If you want to argue the latter, I'm sorry but you're not being realistic.
 

Garbage Goal

Registered User
Apr 1, 2009
22,707
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Absolutely true.
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I don´t agree with everything deadhead has to say. And there are many decisions of our HC that can be doubted. But posts like "Fire Haktard" are not very convincing and that is what many of the critical posts are basically saying.
.
I don´t see an epic collapse either as the more pessimistic people here want to see. At least not yet. We had won a couple a couple of games that we really shouldn´t have. This lead to a 1st place for more a less a second or two. Pick this two seconds out and dramatize the couple of losses that have followed since as an epic collapse. I don´t buy it.
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To me the Flyers this season are a franchise that is good for a 2nd WC spot or a near miss. If they win against Columbus they will stay below par. I expect an overtime or shootout loss leading them closer to the 2nd WC spot.

How bad Hak is as a coach is not only readily apparent to most knowledgeable fans, but has been discussed ad nauseum on this board so it’s completely pointless to say anything more than fire Haktard. Unless you like wasting time arguing with random strangers on the internet about the same topic over and over again a la deadhead.

You’re right that we’re probably not missing though. Too many teams behind us and too late in the season. Not impossible, but unlikely. That’s besides the point though. A lot of people would rather miss and get the benefits of missing than seeing them crash and burn in the first round. The way they’re playing against playoff teams right now, largely due to coaching decisions, doesn’t bode well.
 
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Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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It is interesting to me how many people try to paint deadhead as a moron.

He's well-written, logically organized, and gives evidence for his opinions even if you don't agree with him.

To me, he's easily one of the smartest posters on the board.

When people try to label him a complete dumbass, it lowers my opinions of those who do so.

It's like they want to bully him into their opinions and want no parts of actually considering there may be some truth in some of his differing opinions because it may threaten their own thought processes. And, of course, by shouting down his opinions and casting a scarlet letter on him, it attempts to persuade others into believing his opinions are idiotic and the masses are clearly correct.

So much mob psychology in message boards. And life in general, I guess. Disagree with him all you want, but deadhead isn't anywhere near stupid.

In cases where he disagrees with others' opinions, he gives his reasoning. I don't see anything wrong with that. I think a lot of it is people don't like having their opinions challenged (just look at politics -- everything is always all or nothing; my side is always right, your side always wrong, never much thought given to actually considering differing opinions and finding a middle ground). I think humans are very tribal by nature, and like identifying with groups, and feel threatened by any challenge to their own group's philosophies. It's a chicken-or-egg scenario when you're talking about incessant debates with strangers on message boards. Both sides are guilty.

He is not nearly the troll or obtuse person as often painted. I like reading what he has to say. There's a real danger in only listening to one side of a story. Then you have essentially a dictatorship which assumes the dictator is both infallibly correct and has no ulterior motives. That's never the case. For years the only side of the story I heard on fats were that they'd kill you, eggs' cholesterol would give you a heart attack, and to eat low fat and follow a food pyramid loaded with bread and grains. Suddenly all the science has shown that advice to be about 180 degrees incorrect and influenced by sugar lobbyists. There's value in retaining a sense of cynicism and not always following the herd, and it's not for the purpose of contrarianism, it's because the herd isn't always right.

These are two incredibly ignorant posts and I'll tell you why.

There's two options here.

Either...
a) you don't pay attention to what's actually being said, so you don't understand what's going on
or...
b) you do understand what's being said, but you're intentionally misrepresenting it for the sake of argument

The reason you like reading what he has to say is because he goes against the majority of the board and you love that because you love to play the contrarian too.

We get it, you're a special unique snowflake and you stand against the rest of the drooling idiots on the internet. Well done, we're all impressed. Most people on here argue against deadhead, so that means if you side with him then you're as far away from being just another average person as you can be. Congrats, it worked, you're special.

Since I'm not 100% sure which of the above two options you really are - although I'm leaning towards option "b" - I'll explain why he gets so much shit, just for the hell of it, in case anyone else wonders as well.

First off, it's not a matter of opinions. Let's get that out of the way first, that way I don't have to read the same idiotic defenses about how nobody can ever be wrong because everything on here is an opinion and opinions can't be wrong. That isn't a valid defense when what's actually being said are incorrect statements. When he shares something that is an opinion, it's usually either ignored or discussed normally. For example when he says he thinks Frost will be on the team next year. I've seen some people agree and others disagree, for various reasons.

There's no problem with people having different opinions on here, despite the cries of people who want to play the victim, so long as you can honestly back up your perspective. I've disagreed with many people, many times, and still had perfectly civil conversations. For example, @Rebels57 and I have argued a few times over the last few days, because we have different opinions on the job Hextall is doing, and there's been no issue.

So, what really causes all the problems with deadhead is when he either outright lies or when he contradicts himself, because both expose his motives.

A perfect example is this post where I prove that he was 100% lying and contradicting himself to defend Hakstol. After Konecny started playing awesome on the top line in January, he says Hakstol's coaching is what made Konecny improve... but just a short time earlier in December (a matter of days, not even months) he made these statements, saying that Konecny hadn't improved and was still a poor bottom 6 player...
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/141248221/

This is the type of dishonesty that naturally turns people against you by making it clear that you'll outright lie and contradict your own words to serve a bias, instead of being honest and admitting you were wrong.

You don't think he's stupid? OK, sure, then that means he's intentionally saying these things, knowing he's wrong. In my opinion, that's worse than ignorance and a great way to make sure nobody respects you or what you have to say.

I've argued with him a long time and we've disagreed on a lot of different things. I'll even admit I had private messaged him a few times to apologize when I went too far and was too aggressive because I know I was and at the time he didn't deserve it. But now he's been proven to be so incredibly dishonest and intentionally inflammatory, so I have zero respect for someone like that. You like to pretend it's mob mentality or a hivemind or whatever other label you want to slap on, but in reality it's just that many people recognize the exact same things and have a similar natural reaction to it.
 
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Adtar02

@NateThompson44 is a bum
Apr 8, 2012
4,964
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A lot of players develop by playing sheltered minutes (and often 2+ years in the AHL) and working their way into more PT.
I think Sanheim is one of those guys, whereas Provorov, Patrick and Lindblom have better instincts and/or are more fundamentally sound.
On the surface this makes sense. What most seem to see and want is him playing more as he seems to be better than other who are playing more. Not so much in a huge increase in mins, but more game at 14-16mins a night slowly increasing as he improves. As he has done at everylevel. On the Surface with a deeper team sure the new guys get less mins till they are better than the others. He already is better than 3 Dman on this team. Is he strong in the corners not yet. Does he make mistakes sure. But he needs to learn. and know that he wont be bench for a mistake. so he can grow his confidence.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
51,118
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To me, the most frustrating player isn't Sanheim, but Patrick.

On the one hand, he's clearly superior to Filppula, but because he's had a rough two years, hasn't had a chance to get into shape in the offseason, and has just gotten his legs under him, how much do you want to play him this season?

I'd rather lose a couple games this year and protect Patrick's long-term future by limiting his minutes.
Because I think he's going to be an elite player very quickly, once he gets a full offseason to work out, get stronger and digest his rookie season.
And that's something I don't want to risk.
 
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FlyTimmo

pit <3
Jul 10, 2013
12,457
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To me, the most frustrating player isn't Sanheim, but Patrick.

On the one hand, he's clearly superior to Filppula, but because he's had a rough two years, hasn't had a chance to get into shape in the offseason, and has just gotten his legs under him, how much do you want to play him this season?

I'd rather lose a couple games this year and protect Patrick's long-term future by limiting his minutes.
Because I think he's going to be an elite player very quickly, once he gets a full offseason to work out, get stronger and digest his rookie season.
And that's something I don't want to risk.

Hakstol is already ahead of you. Filppula gets more minutes.
 
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Jtown

Registered User
Oct 6, 2010
39,619
19,685
Fairfax, Virginia
To me, the most frustrating player isn't Sanheim, but Patrick.

On the one hand, he's clearly superior to Filppula, but because he's had a rough two years, hasn't had a chance to get into shape in the offseason, and has just gotten his legs under him, how much do you want to play him this season?

I'd rather lose a couple games this year and protect Patrick's long-term future by limiting his minutes.
Because I think he's going to be an elite player very quickly, once he gets a full offseason to work out, get stronger and digest his rookie season.
And that's something I don't want to risk.

That is something i thought about early in the year when he was clearly laboring. Why even risk an injury at the nhl level. Fortunately he has been able to get himself up to speed.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,783
16,531
Absolutely true.
.
I don´t agree with everything deadhead has to say. And there are many decisions of our HC that can be doubted. But posts like "Fire Haktard" are not very convincing and that is what many of the critical posts are basically saying.
.
I don´t see an epic collapse either as the more pessimistic people here want to see. At least not yet. We had won a couple a couple of games that we really shouldn´t have. This lead to a 1st place for more a less a second or two. Pick this two seconds out and dramatize the couple of losses that have followed since as an epic collapse. I don´t buy it.
.
To me the Flyers this season are a franchise that is good for a 2nd WC spot or a near miss. If they win against Columbus they will stay below par. I expect an overtime or shootout loss leading them closer to the 2nd WC spot.
Good post. And I disagree with deadhead often (such as his believing Ghost should have spent an extra season in the AHL, & his obsession with size). But he’s far from an idiot. And I appreciate that in many cases he has a more moderate take than “Goody Hakstol’s a witch!” And “The sky is falling!”

I agree with you that I don’t see an epic collapse yet, & that talent wise they are a bubble playoff team.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,783
16,531
There's two options here.

Either...
a) you don't pay attention to what's actually being said, so you don't understand what's going on
or...
b) you do understand what's being said, but you're intentionally misrepresenting it for the sake of argument

That's a logically dishonest way to begin your argument. Of course there are many other shades of gray between those two possibilities: Here's one: c) I do understand what's being said, and we disagree with the way people have reacted to it.

I think you have a tendency to fly off the handle over little things. Maybe he's not being intentionally inflammable so much as you naturally have a tendency to explode over things you disagree with.

Who cares that he changed his opinion on Konecny in a matter of weeks? Konecny can't make big strides in a matter of weeks?

Anyway, I know you like to consider yourself the official board arbiter of what is opinion and what is "incorrect." But a lot of times, I believe what you label as "incorrect" still has a lot of room for discussion and more gray areas than you admit.

And I am skeptical that the reason you and others overreact so much to deadhead is because he's "so incredibly dishonest." I really don't think he is, even if he made a faux pas or two (as many have here). I think it mostly has to do with the fact that he defends Hakstol. And Goody Hakstol is a witch.
 

BernieParent

In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
Mar 13, 2009
25,197
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Chasm of Sar (north of Montreal, Qc)
What is largely missing from this discussion is the ability to adapt within a game. The options are not just 'Play Player X for Y minutes' or 'Bench Player X'. Hakstol needs to be more fluid with his options. If Patrick is looking great in a game, play him more in that game. If Gudas is a tire fire, play him less. Hakstol's decisions give the appearance of an algorithmic strategy: if leading by <3 goals with <2 minutes of 3rd period, play X, Y and Z.
 

Captain Dave Poulin

Imaginary Cat
Sponsor
Apr 30, 2015
68,604
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I think before we go any further, it's important to remember that "inflammable" means "easily set on fire"

4To5reW.gif
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
90,304
157,001
Pennsylvania
That's a logically dishonest way to begin your argument. Of course there are many other shades of gray between those two possibilities: Here's one: c) I do understand what's being said, and we disagree with the way people have reacted to it.
Nope, you clearly don't because you kept talking about the way people react to him is a because they disagree with his opinions, when in reality it has nothing to do with his opinions, as you'd know if you actually read what I just wrote. The reaction is to his dishonest arguments and intentional contradictions.

Like I said, I don't know if you're not paying attention to what's being said or if you are, but are trying to twist it.

I think you have a tendency to fly off the handle over little things. Maybe he's not being intentionally inflammable so much as you naturally have a tendency to explode over things you disagree with.

Again, not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. It's a matter of fact vs fiction.

I also never "fly off the handle" or "explode". I don't get worked up, I just point out bullshit when it's obvious.

Who cares that he changed his opinion on Konecny in a matter of weeks? Konecny can't make big strides in a matter of weeks?
Read his own words...
Konecny's lack of scoring is his lack of progress as a player
Konecny is a perfect fit right now on the speed line, because he's not even a top 9 winger

So on December 22nd he isn't progressing and isn't a top 9 winger... but then a few days later he's a top line winger because of his progression under Hakstol...

That isn't a change of opinion. That's a blatant contradiction for the purpose of dishonestly defending Hakstol.

Anyway, I know you like to consider yourself the official board arbiter of what is opinion and what is "incorrect." But a lot of times, I believe what you label as "incorrect" still has a lot of room for discussion and more gray areas than you admit.

And I am skeptical that the reason you and others overreact so much to deadhead is because he's "so incredibly dishonest." I really don't think he is, even if he made a faux pas or two (as many have here). I think it mostly has to do with the fact that he defends Hakstol. And Goody Hakstol is a witch.

Uhh... I have nothing to do with what's opinion and what isn't... the definition of the word "opinion" decides that for us. :laugh:

If you don't think he's dishonest then it goes back to what I initially said about you either not paying attention or intentionally being dishonest too. There's proof of his dishonesty. Literally his own words. I copy/pasted them and if you want you can go back and look at posts that didn't magically disappear from existence. Not sure what else could be said.

It's not that he defends Hakstol, it's the way he does it. Another example is his "Hakstol has no other choice" argument when defending his player usage. That is an incorrect statement. Not an opinion, a factual lie.
 
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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,783
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Nope, you clearly don't because you kept talking about the way people react to him is a because they disagree with his opinions, when in reality it has nothing to do with his opinions, as you'd know if you actually read what I just wrote. The reaction is to his dishonest arguments and intentional contradictions.

Like I said, I don't know if you're not paying attention to what's being said or if you are, but are trying to twist it.

And that's exactly what I mean, Striiker. Maybe you're the one who isn't paying attention.

You say, "Nope, you clearly don't because you kept talking about the way people react to him is a because they disagree with his opinions, when in reality it has nothing to do with his opinions, as you'd know if you actually read what I just wrote."

I'm saying that in reality I think people's reactions to deadhead largely ARE because they disagree with his opinions. That's where we have a disagreement.

Your blanket statement that "in reality it has nothing to do with his opinions" is the perfect example of what I mean when I say you like to consider yourself the board's ultimate judge of what is opinion and what is simply incorrect, whereas there actually is a lot more room for disagreement and gray areas than you acknowledge.

And your quote "as you'd know if you actually read what I just wrote" just reinforces your pompous image as the board's know-it-all when it comes to what is and isn't debatable.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
90,304
157,001
Pennsylvania
And that's exactly what I mean, Striiker. Maybe you're the one who isn't paying attention.

You say, "Nope, you clearly don't because you kept talking about the way people react to him is a because they disagree with his opinions, when in reality it has nothing to do with his opinions, as you'd know if you actually read what I just wrote."

I'm saying that in reality I think people's reactions to deadhead largely ARE because they disagree with his opinions. That's where we have a disagreement.

Your blanket statement that "in reality it has nothing to do with his opinions" is the perfect example of what I mean when I say you like to consider yourself the board's ultimate judge of what is opinion and what is simply incorrect, whereas there actually is a lot more room for disagreement and gray areas than you acknowledge.

And your quote "as you'd know if you actually read what I just wrote" just reinforces your pompous image as the board's know-it-all when it comes to what is and isn't debatable.

And I'm telling you that it's pretty obvious that's not the case.

I'll use myself as proof.

You're trying to paint me as someone who can't handle different opinions, when I've already showed that's not true. I've had disagreements with tons of people on this website... so why is it that you see a unique problem with deadhead? He isn't the only person who has different opinions, so what's different? It's the dishonest arguments and intentional contradictions, which I also provided clear proof of. I'm also not the only person who has said the same thing or pointed this out.

Are you honestly going to try to tell me that you know why I dislike someone better than I do? Seriously? :laugh:

I'd say I'm pretty justified in saying that I'm the ultimate judge of what is and isn't debatable when talking about what I think. I guess that makes me a "pompous know-it-all".
 
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