Prospect Info: 47OA: Brady Cleveland

[Hazy Little Thing]

Far too often, fans continue to forget the NHL Draft is far different than other sports.

At least 85% of 400+ game NHL players were not seen as “Can’t Miss” types. They developed. Key word. Including 2nd Rounders… where teams miss almost more than any other round.

What the f***. What in tarnation. Defend this with any sort of facts. The second round is the second most accurate round for drafting. “Almost more than any other round”? What the heck.

 

[Frk It]

Did he not get invited to the WJSS for USA even though they are running 2 teams? (Blue & White)

Woof.

 

[raymond23]

Did he not get invited to the WJSS for USA even though they are running 2 teams? (Blue & White)

Woof.

I just painfully watched a shift-by-shift of his the other day. I still cannot wrap my head around it

 

[Frk It]

I just painfully watched a shift-by-shift of his the other day. I still cannot wrap my head around it

Was looking on twitter to see if maybe he was injured or there was a reason he wasn’t invited and saw this jfresh chart (maybe this was already posted in this thread)

Lol

 

[AD1066]

I just painfully watched a shift-by-shift of his the other day. I still cannot wrap my head around it

Heidt and Sawchyn were still on the board. Or Dragicevic they preferred a defenseman. Hated our 2nd round this year.

 

[izlez]

I just painfully watched a shift-by-shift of his the other day. I still cannot wrap my head around it

By "a" shift-by-shift video, I assume you mean the one video of him available on youtube that everyone is basing their opinion on?

 

[lilidk]

Did he not get invited to the WJSS for USA even though they are running 2 teams? (Blue & White)

Woof.

They didn't approve Yzerman choice

Heidt and Sawchyn were still on the board. Or Dragicevic they preferred a defenseman. Hated our 2nd round this year.

That is how we draft in the second, but one day it will be excellent pick

 

[jaster]

Was looking on twitter to see if maybe he was injured or there was a reason he wasn’t invited and saw this jfresh chart (maybe this was already posted in this thread)

Lol

I'm not saying all you haters don't have a leg to stand on, it was certainly a peculiar pick on the surface. However, with all the criticism this pick has taken, it's become very easy to root for this kid. I'm just here for the chaos if this kid actually makes it, and makes these JFresh charts look as useless as they probably are for kids this young.

GIVE ME ALL THE CHAOS, BRADY!

 

[raymond23]

By "a" shift-by-shift video, I assume you mean the one video of him available on youtube that everyone is basing their opinion on?

That combined with the fact his state line is 0+16 in 145 games in the USNTDP

Kid hasn't scored a goal since high school in 2020

 

[Frk It]

I'm not saying all you haters don't have a leg to stand on, it was certainly a peculiar pick on the surface. However, with all the criticism this pick has taken, it's become very easy to root for this kid. I'm just here for the chaos if this kid actually makes it, and makes these JFresh charts look as useless as they probably are for kids this young.

GIVE ME ALL THE CHAOS, BRADY!

I get the sentiment (kind of). What would “making it” look like in your eyes?

I can’t ever think of a player with his profile becoming a middle pairing or better defenseman in the NHL. As far as role on the USDP, pt production on the USDP, tools, trajectory, etc.

This would be a much bigger feather in Draper and co’s cap than Bertuzzi if he was to become a good player, IMO.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Heidt and Sawchyn were still on the board. Or Dragicevic they preferred a defenseman. Hated our 2nd round this year.

Oddly enough, Cleveland skates better than all three of those guys. Heidt is a f***ing joke.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I get the sentiment (kind of). What would “making it” look like in your eyes?

I can’t ever think of a player with his profile becoming a middle pairing or better defenseman in the NHL. As far as role on the USDP, pt production on the USDP, tools, trajectory, etc.

This would be a much bigger feather in Draper and co’s cap than Bertuzzi if he was to become a good player, IMO.

Maybe a Hal Gill or someone in that mold? I personally am not worried about the offense. We did not draft him for his expected offensive contributions and it would be foolish to expect that side of his game to improve enough to become NHL league average. I am, however, very focused on his ability to get to and move pucks. If he can do that reasonably well and defend extremely well, we may have a player of some value. Honestly, he resembles more NHL defensemen that ASP does.

 

[izlez]

I can’t ever think of a player with his profile becoming a middle pairing or better defenseman in the NHL. As far as role on the USDP, pt production on the USDP, tools, trajectory, etc.

(I think this is what you're saying) This type of stuff drives me crazy. Along with the comments when he was drafted of "Why did we draft a #7 defenseman in the second round" as if sports are simple enough where actually evaluating players is irrelevant.

He's a big defensive defenseman, so that makes him a middle pairing defenseman? (or a #7 defenseman)? What if you actually watch him and actually evaluate him and he's the Wayne Gretzky of defensive defenseman? The best of all time by a wide margin? Are you still going to sit him on your bench as a #7?

If you're into football, the Inside The Den episode that was just posted in the Michigan Sports Thread probably illustrates my point better than I can. All the amateurs say you can't draft a running back or linebacker in round 1. Cool, but what if you actually evaluated the players you're talking about
(I also realize the dangers of citing the Detroit Lions as doing anything the right way)

 

[jaster]

I get the sentiment (kind of). What would “making it” look like in your eyes?

In his case, an NHL regular on the 3rd pair. A cut above Gustav Lindstrom. Although, if he only becomes Gustav Lindstrom, that's probably still a success for a 47OA pick.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I get the sentiment (kind of). What would “making it” look like in your eyes?

I can’t ever think of a player with his profile becoming a middle pairing or better defenseman in the NHL. As far as role on the USDP, pt production on the USDP, tools, trajectory, etc.

This would be a much bigger feather in Draper and co’s cap than Bertuzzi if he was to become a good player, IMO.

Is a middle pairing defensemen a bad result for a 2nd round pick?

 

[Frk It]

In his case, an NHL regular on the 3rd pair. A cut above Gustav Lindstrom. Although, if he only becomes Gustav Lindstrom, that's probably still a success for a 47OA pick.

I was literally going to say I would be very surprised if he became more than Lindstrom as a player… lol

If you want to dunk on people for Cleveland becoming a 7th defenseman, have at it.

Is a middle pairing defensemen a bad result for a 2nd round pick?

No. But what odds do you think Cleveland has of being that? And do you think there were other defenseman on the board more likely to be that?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I was literally going to say I would be very surprised if he became more than Lindstrom as a player… lol

If you want to dunk on people for Cleveland becoming a 7th defenseman, have at it.


No. But what odds do you think Cleveland has of being that? And do you think there were other defenseman on the board more likely to be that?

Excellent question. I am guessing there were others available in the 2nd round with a greater all out likelihood of becoming middle pair defensemen of some variety or quality. I am also guessing, however, the brass was thinking that Cleveland had the highest upside defensively of those players available which made him worth that sort of pick. This is to say that if he hit his projected ceiling, he would be far better defensively than all other available options.

I appreciate that it defies modern public scouting convention, but elite individual defensive play does have value in the game, especially on the blueline. Similarly, in every draft you will hit a point where no one really has projectible offensive upside (or can out produce their defensive mistakes).

He certainly isn't an exciting pick. I will give you that much.

 

[jaster]

I was literally going to say I would be very surprised if he became more than Lindstrom as a player… lol

If you want to dunk on people for Cleveland becoming a 7th defenseman, have at it.

I'm not here to make any predictions on what Cleveland will become. I'm agnostic on prospects, at least until I see them play. I'm just A) rooting for him as I do any other prospect, and 2) rooting for him a tad extra because I like to see fans who draw conclusions on draft picks, on draft day, look silly (which they often do). I'm not saying you.... as I said, it's valid to have concerns about a pick. But there's a line between being concerned with a pick and claiming outright on draft day that it's a bad pick, no question. Those posters are the same ones who said Larkin was a bad pick. Bertuzzi was a bad pick. Seider. Mazur. Etc, etc, etc.

Cleveland may be a 100% dud who never comes close to the NHL. Teams do make bad picks of course. So the "I'm always right about prospects" people would get to be right about this one. But if he does make it.... I'll be here. I'll be waiting. I'll be sipping some whisky, pulling up bookmarks, and crafting some memes. And then there will be dunking

 

[Frk It]

I'm not here to make any predictions on what Cleveland will become. I'm agnostic on prospects, at least until I see them play. I'm just A) rooting for him as I do any other prospect, and 2) rooting for him a tad extra because I like to see fans who draw conclusions on draft picks, on draft day, look silly (which they often do). I'm not saying you.... as I said, it's valid to have concerns about a pick. But there's a line between being concerned with a pick and claiming outright on draft day that it's a bad pick, no question. Those posters are the same ones who said Larkin was a bad pick. Bertuzzi was a bad pick. Seider. Mazur. Etc, etc, etc.

Cleveland may be a 100% dud who never comes close to the NHL. Teams do make bad picks of course. So the "I'm always right about prospects" people would get to be right about this one. But if he does make it.... I'll be here. I'll be waiting. I'll be sipping some whisky, pulling up bookmarks, and crafting some memes. And then there will be dunking

Yeah I don’t know, I defended the Mazur pick.

This one.. I have a hard time seeing the thought process.

I just don’t get why in 2023 teams are drafting defensive defenseman in the first 2 rounds. You look at the guys incapable of putting up points in their draft season playing against kids their age.. and there’s not a great track record. Not in our own history or in the league history. There have been articles written on this.
.

 

[norrisnick]

Cleveland's absolute ceiling is what? Derian Hatcher without the offensive upside?

 

[Killerjas]

Still pissed off

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Yeah I don’t know, I defended the Mazur pick.

This one.. I have a hard time seeing the thought process.

I just don’t get why in 2023 teams are drafting defensive defenseman in the first 2 rounds. You look at the guys incapable of putting up points in their draft season playing against kids their age.. and there’s not a great track record. Not in our own history or in the league history. There have been articles written on this.
.

If it makes you feel any better, Ian Cole put up a total of 19 points in two seasons with the NDTP back when it played in the NAHL. He has played 748 NHL games.

As fans I think we have a habit of romanticizing NHL defensemen and what exactly it is that they do game in and game out.

I certainly appreciate that there is an opportunity cost to taking a player such as this in the first two rounds and that the analytics community hates players like this (although you see an inordinate number of them deep into the NHL playoffs each year).

 

[jaster]

Yeah I don’t know, I defended the Mazur pick.

This one.. I have a hard time seeing the thought process.

I just don’t get why in 2023 teams are drafting defensive defenseman in the first 2 rounds. You look at the guys incapable of putting up points in their draft season playing against kids their age.. and there’s not a great track record. Not in our own history or in the league history. There have been articles written on this.
.

Valid concerns, I agree. They went against the odds. Let's see if it pays off

 

[Detroit Knights]

Maybe a Hal Gill or someone in that mold? I personally am not worried about the offense. We did not draft him for his expected offensive contributions and it would be foolish to expect that side of his game to improve enough to become NHL league average. I am, however, very focused on his ability to get to and move pucks. If he can do that reasonably well and defend extremely well, we may have a player of some value. Honestly, he resembles more NHL defensemen that ASP does.

This is why I like the pick. He doesn't do offense and that is perfectly fine. If he is able to make the lineup without ever scoring a goal for his career, I am perfectly fine with that because that only means his defense is higher that exceptional. I am pretty sure we signed maatta for his defense and any offense was just helpful, just turns out he had a career point year (whatever the factors were idc, just a comparison).

Having a 5th/6th D that will shut you down, play PK and move the garbage out of the front of the crease, sign me up. From some of his "highlights", he likes to lay the body and if we can do that on a NHL PK, that means players like crosby/mackinnon/etc. need to be mindful when they crash the crease that this guy is here. We haven't had someone like that (other than seider but its only been 2 seasons) in a very long time where you come to my crease, you will hurt after. Some players may not care about that (tkachuk's type players I would assume) but others are going to care about that.

Only so much abuse your willing to take before you start being cautious. I don't necessarily like the pick from the round/who was left on the board at that time, but at the end of the day, if he pans out and the others I would have chosen don't, does it honestly matter? Time will tell I suppose.

I am highly intrigued on the play, may just not be a fan of the pick placement and I am sure most feel the same way.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

If it makes you feel any better, Ian Cole put up a total of 19 points in two seasons with the NDTP back when it played in the NAHL. He has played 748 NHL games.

As fans I think we have a habit of romanticizing NHL defensemen and what exactly it is that they do game in and game out.

I certainly appreciate that there is an opportunity cost to taking a player such as this in the first two rounds and that the analytics community hates players like this (although you see an inordinate number of them deep into the NHL playoffs each year).

There’s a lot more players that busted with a similar profile to Cleveland than players that made it. That’s really my problem with this pick.

As the league transforms this kind of player, while valuable if they’re good enough to make it, becomes much more of a rarity.

I hope that this kid proves us all wrong and makes it as a rock solid 4/5/6 that will staple a shithead Tkachuk to the wall. I think it’s more likely that he’s in the AHL doing that to minor leaguers.