Prospect Info: 41OA: Trey Augustine

[Gniwder]

I don't think Steve picked cossa because of size. He picked him because he had all the tools to be a really good NHL goalie. He just hasn't put it together unfortunately. Kenny just picked lots of tall players seemingly at random. And he also missed out on a ton of top end NHL players for no reason.

Kenny would not have picked Raz if he didn't think he had the skills to be a top line NHL player. Same with Stevie and Cossa. However, I think they both emphasized size too much.

I was frothing at the mouth when we picked Cossa instead of Wallstedt. A lot of Cossa's scouting reports were basically "suspect technique and poor positioning, but he's huge". So of course we draft him and he's never come close to matching his draft year performance (which has a big asterisk due to COVID and the Oil Kings not having to play any good teams).

If not for that COVID year Cossa would've likely been a third-rounder.

I wanted Wallstedt as well. I'd rather have better positioning and technique than "athleticism" in a goalie.

 

[RRhoads]

It's pretty much a toin coss predicting how goalies turn out.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Weird seeing people act like a 20 year old goalie is already a bust lol

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Earlier in this thread here is what Pavel Buchnevich had to say about this US defensive group:


Now the US had tons of firepower, but defense was not their calling card. So I think Augustine deserves a bit more credit than what you are giving him.

Technically to provide a little more context, this isn't his age group. This was mostly the 2004 age group (5 of 7), and there were 2 from his 2005 age group that made it (Buium, Fortescue), but it's also true that the 2004 age group defensemen aren't the most defensively inclined, even if they aren't bad defensemen. Players like Hutson and Casey are 5'9-5'10. Those players are never a goalie's friend.

The two goals he allowed yesterday were deflections in front of them, one where his defenseman Fortescue didn't tie up a Swedish stick in the slot and then the long Lekkerimaki shot hit his own defenseman Chesley and changed trajectory. In the SF, one of the goals his defenseman Rinzel basically handed the Swedish player the puck at point blank range and then the other his defenseman Hutson didn't tie up a stick in a slot, which resulted in a deflection.

So of the four goals the final two games, these were all very hard goals to prevent for a goalie and a lot of poor defense. But the defense held up well enough to win Gold. It was an overall better defensive group than we'll probably see next year. This one was a little smaller and more offensively-inclined. The one next year will probably be bigger, but worse at hockey. Neither exactly ideal for a goalie!

 

[schuelma24]

Err… obviously last year Cossa was way behind, but this year his save percentage is a grand total of .016 off of Wallstedt in the AHL this year. I don’t think the gap this year is nearly as large as the commentary going on in this thread would have you believe.

 

[FissionFire]

I was frothing at the mouth when we picked Cossa instead of Wallstedt. A lot of Cossa's scouting reports were basically "suspect technique and poor positioning, but he's huge". So of course we draft him and he's never come close to matching his draft year performance (which has a big asterisk due to COVID and the Oil Kings not having to play any good teams).

If not for that COVID year Cossa would've likely been a third-rounder.

The thought process generally is a player can be taught better positioning and technique. You rely on your scouts to tell you how teachable a player may be. You can’t teach size. If you have 2 players, one with good technique/positioning and the other with lots of size and you feel can be taught to be as good as the other at technique/positioning, it’s a better bet to pick the bigger player and rely on your development crew to teach him. It really comes down to how much you trust your scouts to tell you how teachable he is and your development team to properly teach him those skills.

 

[Euro Twins]

Kenny would not have picked Raz if he didn't think he had the skills to be a top line NHL player. Same with Stevie and Cossa. However, I think they both emphasized size too much.




I wanted Wallstedt as well. I'd rather have better positioning and technique than "athleticism" in a goalie.

Obviously Kenny picked Raz because he thought he was a big bodied skilled player. The difference is Steve obviously has a better eye for talent. And Kenny was placing size over skill.

If you disagree with me you can go take a look at how deep that draft was and see that he brutally missed on about 10 other players better than Raz including otter. Some of those players are 6'3"

 

[ricky0034]

I was frothing at the mouth when we picked Cossa instead of Wallstedt. A lot of Cossa's scouting reports were basically "suspect technique and poor positioning, but he's huge". So of course we draft him and he's never come close to matching his draft year performance (which has a big asterisk due to COVID and the Oil Kings not having to play any good teams).

If not for that COVID year Cossa would've likely been a third-rounder.

eh it was also athleticism and attitude in addition to the size

 

[Gniwder]

eh it was also athleticism and attitude in addition to the size

I'd rather have a goalie with shit attitude like Roy that can win games. All goalies have weird personalities, and the best ones seem to have the worst personality, like Roy, Thomas, etc.

 

[HoweFan]

Wallstedt’s stats are better than Cossa’s but the gap is closing

 

[jaster]

I'd rather have a goalie with shit attitude like Roy that can win games. All goalies have weird personalities, and the best ones seem to have the worst personality, like Roy, Thomas, etc.

Attitude was probably the wrong word there. Cossa’s scouting report read ‘high compete’, I’m guessing that’s what ricky probably meant. And Roy was maybe the most competitive goalie ever. Sooo, it’s good.

 

[HoweFan]

Not too many teams have two goalie prospects like we do. I hope they both do well

 

[13to40]

Not too many teams have two goalie prospects like we do. I hope they both do well

Cossa will take more time to “ripen”.

I think he has superstar goaltending potential and he has the intangibles that cannot be taught aka his size.

Will he eventually pan out to be what is hoped from him? I guess we will find out within the next few years, otherwise having Augustine being backed up by Cossa doesn’t sound too bad either.

 

[Killerjas]

Not too many teams have two goalie prospects like we do. I hope they both do well

Just curious, how many teams drafted 2 goalies in the first 2 rounds in a span of 2 years?

 

[saska sault]

Just curious, how many teams drafted 2 goalies in the first 2 rounds in a span of 2 years?

Cossa was 1st round in 2021, Augustin was 2nd round 2023 but not many invest that kind of capital. I for one am happy we did, think they were really nice calculated risks during the rebuild. Cossa is looked down upon for his numbers but when his development catches up to his size, he will take off.

 

[Bench]

Just curious, how many teams drafted 2 goalies in the first 2 rounds in a span of 2 years?

Well, 3 years of drafts. Cossa is 2021 and Augustine is 2023, so that's 3 drafts. But your point stands and it's definitely not normal. Best I could find is teams like Washington that drafted a 1st rounder Varlamov in 2006 then Holtby in the 4th round in 2008.

There'd definitely teams that draft a lot of goalies in round 2-5 frequently looking for hits, but 1st rounders are more unique. There's just not a ton of 1st round goalies drafted in the first place.

 

[Gniwder]

Just curious, how many teams drafted 2 goalies in the first 2 rounds in a span of 2 years?

The Caps did with Samsonov (2015 #22OA) and Vanacek (2014 #39), and that was back when Holtby was in his prime.

Goalies can be traded, Varlamov (2006 #23) was traded for a 1st and 2nd when the Caps decided to go with Holtby (2008 #93) as starter. It is never a bad thing to have too many goalie prospects. Certainly much better than trading for a bunch of backup goalies that can't take the starter workload.


Edit: The Wild picked a goalie in the second round 2 years before taking Wallstedt

 

[RRhoads]

Got to keep in mind how many second rounders they've had in that span too.

It's 4 first round picks, and 6 second round picks.

 

[HoweFan]

Cossa was 1st round in 2021, Augustin was 2nd round 2023 but not many invest that kind of capital. I for one am happy we did, think they were really nice calculated risks during the rebuild. Cossa is looked down upon for his numbers but when his development catches up to his size, he will take off.

I agree. I don’t really care who else has invested high picks on goalies like us. We did, and have two great prospects. I don’t like drafting goalies high but thankfully Steve and the boys are a little smarter than me

 

[Henkka]

Obviously Kenny picked Raz because he thought he was a big bodied skilled player. The difference is Steve obviously has a better eye for talent. And Kenny was placing size over skill.

If you disagree with me you can go take a look at how deep that draft was and see that he brutally missed on about 10 other players better than Raz including otter. Some of those players are 6'3"

It was 2017. when Tyler Wright said that we need to get bigger and tougher. Ken Holland echoed this.

Since 2017, we have gotten bigger especially at defence, thanks to Yzerman drafting. The toughness is still missing, but man, that last draft was going ALL IN after toughness/grit-type of players on low rounds.

 

[Mister Ed]

He feels like a Jonathan Quick-type pro. Very similar numbers in the NCAA in D+1 season.

Augustine - 2.97 GAA / .916 SV% in 17 games in the NCAA
Quick - 2.98 GAA / .920 SV% in 17 games in the NCAA

 

[sepster]

It was 2017. when Tyler Wright said that we need to get bigger and tougher. Ken Holland echoed this.

Since 2017, we have gotten bigger especially at defence, thanks to Yzerman drafting. The toughness is still missing, but man, that last draft was going ALL IN after toughness/grit-type of players on low rounds.

Again, emphasizing how terrible Tyler Wright is at drafting. Selecting Rasmussen in an effort to get tougher is a terrible pick considering, given his size, Rasmussen is a wet noodle.

 

[jaster]

I think the Ras pick was less about "getting tougher" and more about "look, a big guy who can score, very projectable!" Except his scoring was all on the PP, and his size being an advantage for him never really played out.

Now we just have blank-stare-looks-pissed-but-does-nothing-to-the-opponent guy.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I think the Ras pick was less about "getting tougher" and more about "look, a big guy who can score, very projectable!" Except his scoring was all on the PP, and his size being an advantage for him never really played out.

Now we just have blank-stare-looks-pissed-but-does-nothing-to-the-opponent guy.

I had heard a rumor back then if they weren't taking Rasmussen, they were going to take Vesalainen. I can live with Ras' skating and skill level. I can't stand, however, how easily he is knocked off of the puck. He is one of the reasons I have become leery about looking for specific types of player in the draft. I think it causes you to see things that aren't really there when you limit your focus. Yes he is big, but he doesn't really play that big because he is so easily knocked off of the puck. Thus we aren't getting much bang for our buck by specifically investing it in a "big boy."

 

[Winger98]

I think the Ras pick was less about "getting tougher" and more about "look, a big guy who can score, very projectable!" Except his scoring was all on the PP, and his size being an advantage for him never really played out.

Now we just have blank-stare-looks-pissed-but-does-nothing-to-the-opponent guy.

Ras definitely felt like a swing for the fences pick. If he hits, we win big. If he doesn't...well, we get what we got, which isn't a horrible player at all. I know folks will bang the drum for Necas and Suzuki, still, but the only other guy taken after Ras in the 1st that I would definitely swap him for is Oettinger...