24/25 Waivers/Rumors/TDL Thread.

[lilidk]

Cozens has always been the 2nd line center in Buffalo. Tage Thompson is the first line center. Tage Thompson gets the first line minutes.

its only the last 2-3 games Cozens is centering the 'first' line because Tage Thompson is playing hurt and literally cannot take faceoffs. Thompson had to be moved to wing so that is the only reason Cozens is at 1c. 270 of his last 280 games played over the last 4 seasons Cozens was at 2c or 3c (with a few very short stints at wing)

Cozens has always been a 2c, never a 1c unless Thompson is injured.

Thanks, I was looking on yesterday game stats.

 

[redwingsfannn9191]

The big ball to drop will be if/when Petey says he won’t play for the Canucks trade me

If he keeps getting sh*t on he wont want to be there much longer

 

[mjd1001]

You are talking about him like he’s only ever been bad as a pro, and that’s just not true. I can guarantee you that these local radio stations and the Sabres fan base were singing a totally differently tune on Cozens 2 years ago.

I wouldn’t disagree the current version of Cozens is bad/underwhelming. But you aren’t trading for that player. You are trying to get him as a reclamation project on the low and hoping with a change of scenery he can go back to the player we saw 2 years ago.

You have to frame this conversation the right way if we are going to have it.

I somewhat disagree. Even 2 years ago when he had his 31 goal season, that was done in a run-and-gun system in Buffalo where defense was an afterthought. And even then he was really bad defensively.

His one year (out of 5 seasons now) was done where his shooting percentage was an outlier, in a system where he didn't have to play much defense, and even then the goal number overshadowed poor overall play.

The Fans in Buffalo, some of them like him and they point back to that season, but the guys who break down replays or go to the games in person and follow him around, the guys who post who look at his play without the puck, he's always been substandard.

Even his 'best' year he was a minus player on a team where Thompson, Skinner, and Tuch were all postive players, some of them double digit positive. Cozens and his linemates were minus players. Whenever his linemates change, the new guys on his line turn into negative players where guys who leave his line turn into positive players. That happened even in his 30 goal season. Its pretty much the case every year for him, without fail.

He might be a useful pickup, but he can't be a center anymore. Let him play wing and let him crash the corners in the offensive zone (which he likes to do) but make sure you have a responsible center for him. And keep him on the 3rd line and do not put him on the PP.

He might still thrive in that role, but is that worth $7m per year?

 

[Frk It]

I somewhat disagree. Even 2 years ago when he had his 31 goal season, that was done in a run-and-gun system in Buffalo where defense was an afterthought. And even then he was really bad defensively.

His one year (out of 5 seasons now) was done where his shooting percentage was an outlier, in a system where he didn't have to play much defense, and even then the goal number overshadowed poor overall play.

The Fans in Buffalo, some of them like him and they point back to that season, but the guys who break down replays or go to the games in person and follow him around, the guys who post who look at his play without the puck, he's always been substandard.

Even his 'best' year he was a minus player on a team where Thompson, Skinner, and Tuch were all postive players, some of them double digit positive. Cozens and his linemates were minus players. Whenever his linemates change, the new guys on his line turn into negative players where guys who leave his line turn into positive players. That happened even in his 30 goal season. Its pretty much the case every year for him, without fail.

He might be a useful pickup, but he can't be a center anymore. Let him play wing and let him crash the corners in the offensive zone (which he likes to do) but make sure you have a responsible center for him. And keep him on the 3rd line and do not put him on the PP.

He might still thrive in that role, but is that worth $7m per year?

I think you are being pretty hyperbolic with your take on him, he also isn’t sub 10% shooting % for his career.

I do agree he might be better served to play wing at this current point in his career. That said he’s also only 23 still.

 

[Euro Twins]

It's my opinion if Vancouver trades Miller the key return will be a guy under 25. .


Why SE? Cause we don't have a young high end top 6 center to give up...so IF he was ever dealt to Detroit they piece eoukd therefore need to be what we do have ...young high end dmen(or Raymond)

So you think Vancouver will trade a 31 year old center and in return get a top 6 24 year old center of equal or similar caliber to Miller? Lol

 

[SantosHalper]

Why SE? Cause we don't have a young high end top 6 center to give up...so IF he was ever dealt to Detroit they piece eoukd therefore need to be what we do have ...young high end dmen(or Raymond)

Exactly why VAN would want Larkin, if they are trading away 100 point center they would want a PPG center back. They don't have center prospects in the system either, they would create a big hole in the middle where cap dump plug wouldn't help them. They could try find one from draft but how long would that take?

In defense they got Hughes leading the 1st pair and Hronek signed with 7,2 cap hit until 2032. Willander is a good prospect, has potential to lead the 2nd pair. D-Pettersson seems like a solid prospect. Defense wouldn't be their priority if they trade Pettersson or Miller.

 

[Frk It]

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

So you think Vancouver will trade a 31 year old center and in return get a top 6 24 year old center of equal or similar caliber to Miller? Lol

I think they'll trade a 31 y/o 90 to 100pt center for yes a 25 and under top 6 center(never said that player today is equal or simmilar caliber to Miller lol) now did I?

Making things up is a sign of weakness

Exactly why VAN would want Larkin, if they are trading away 100 point center they would want a PPG center back. They don't have center prospects in the system either, they would create a big hole in the middle where cap dump plug wouldn't help them. They could try find one from draft but how long would that take?

In defense they got Hughes leading the 1st pair and Hronek signed with 7,2 cap hit until 2032. Willander is a good prospect, has potential to lead the 2nd pair. D-Pettersson seems like a solid prospect. Defense wouldn't be their priority if they trade Pettersson or Miller.

Exactly...it's why we aren't a suitable trade partner...they won't want a 28 y/o Larkin and we can't afford to remove Larkin to add Petey/Miller...

 

[Euro Twins]

I think they'll trade a 31 y/o 90 to 100pt center for yes a 25 and under top 6 center(never said that player today is equal or simmilar caliber to Miller lol) now did I?

Making things up is a sign of weakness



Exactly...it's why we aren't a suitable trade partner...they won't want a 28 y/o Larkin and we can't afford to remove Larkin to add Petey/Miller...

He'll be 32 in March. Vancouver won't be wanting a downgrade.

And making stuff up is a sign of weakness? Weakness of what? I'm using logic to state they'll want a similar level player, I never said you explicitly said that.

Who is weak now?

 

[SantosHalper]

it's why we aren't a suitable trade partner...

Agreed.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

He'll be 32 in March. Vancouver won't be wanting a downgrade.

And making stuff up is a sign of weakness? Weakness of what? I'm using logic to state they'll want a similar level player, I never said you explicitly said that.

Who is weak now?

View attachment 960148

Ok, let's try this...what or who if Miller was dealt to Detroit would go the other way in your opinion?

 

[Euro Twins]

Ok, let's try this...what or who if Miller was dealt to Detroit would go the other way in your opinion?

I don't think we would even trade for Miller. He's going to be 32 soon. Doesn't fit our cup window. But if I had to choose it would be Larkin as they'd want to replace that position. But then it's not really an upgrade, at least not a long term one.

I don't see anything else they'd even take. Maybe Danielson and a first but that makes them worse now.

Maybe debrincat but that would be foolish imo.

 

[Winger98]

vancouver might want a young top6 center who can replace either of Pettersson/miller...but what's the chances of them getting that from anyone who is dealing with them? The best that I can imagine them getting is Cozens or Zibenjad, and neither are close to 1:1.

And Vancouver has to know this. They might want Larkin, but I doubt anyone is giving them a Larkin level player unless that player has some baggage of their own. I think Vancouver would look to get one, maybe two, players who can help them now, and a couple of pieces they can use in other deals to bring in more help.

They are almost certainly losing whatever deal they make if they move either of those guys, though.

 

[Oddbob]

He's gotten selke votes the last 2 seasons, and played so well last night his teammates were on the bench chanting selke at him. This is spoken like someone who doesn't actually watch him play, because Pettersson is a legit 2 way player. Saying he's on a Canadian team so he gets votes, meanwhile his home games are on at 10pm eastern time is certainly a weird argument.

He's 26 for gods sake, so at 24 and 25 he had 2 seasons well over a point per game. He's been hurt this year, there's all kinds of drama in their dressing room and he's still having a legit first line center season.

This sounds like when Eichel was available and Rangers fans didn't want to trade Kakko and Schneider for him. Think they would make that trade now?

What do games being at 10 have to do with anything? It is media not fans who vote for Selke and other awards and many of them are in Vancouver, plus Canadian media members have always gone heavy on Canadian team players getting votes when they do well on Canadian teams. It is why Reimer got Vezina votes in his career, cause he played in Toronto. Anywhere else, votes are way less likely.

I pointed out Selke votes for McDrai which shows you the fake slant Canadian media put on top guys. EP was 7th and then 26th and like I said, if he played in a lesser hockey market like Columbus or Buffalo that would likely be a much lower rank 2 years ago and nothing last year. I never said he wasn't a 2 way player, but so is Larkin and he doesn't get Selke votes. Difference is team, if Larkin played on Van or Tor he would have gotten a few noms in his career, ala McDrai. Not comparing Larkin and EP, just pointing out that the country being the difference in getting noms and not.

Just look a Garland, he isn't a known 2 way player and he got 1 more vote than EP last year and his team is surprise Vancouver. JT Miller is another one, no Selke votes in TB or NYR, joins the Canucks and immediately got votes his first season. EP had 6 Selke votes last year and McDavid had 3, so they mean very little to me as McDavid doesn't play anything resembling Selke level defence.

 

[mjd1001]

I think you are being pretty hyperbolic with your take on him, he also isn’t sub 10% shooting % for his career.

I do agree he might be better served to play wing at this current point in his career. That said he’s also only 23 still.

Hyberbolic with my take? Just because you don't agree?

Please tell me what I said or posted that is incorrect (yes, he is shooting 10.3% s he is 0.4 above 10 percent but every single year except for one he has been below 10%)

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

With the win streak and the team's placement in the standings, I'd be surprised if the Wings did much of anything big. I'm sure they'll take another swing at Cozens, but the motivation to overpay to save the season is gone now. Not to mention somebody like Pettersson or Miller, who would be even more expensive.

Plus, this team may well have some cheap home grown help next October, so why pay a premium for it?

 

[Holden Caufield]

Ignoring age and contract length.

On the surface, JT Miller is actually the perfect player for this team. Big power centre to pair with all the ityy-bitty skilled top 6 wingers.
Solves the ‘top 2’ centre conundrum and also makes our scoring lines physically tougher to play against.

He plays with passion and heart. Maybe bordering on psycho, but you can’t question the passion.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Ignoring age and contract length.

On the surface, JT Miller is actually the perfect player for this team. Big power centre to pair with all the ityy-bitty skilled top 6 wingers.
Solves the ‘top 2’ centre conundrum and also makes our scoring lines physically tougher to play against.

He plays with passion and heart. Maybe bordering on psycho, but you can’t question the passion.

That’s all good and dandy, but you can’t ignore his age and contract length. So the point is moot. If the wings trade for miller they will be pulling an Ottawa, cutting out the feet of their rebuild to try and make the playoffs before it’s truly over.