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Salary Cap: 24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXVII: Retool over! Time to go for a cup in 2026!

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Jag68Sid87 said:
I think the main issue is the system. Everybody talks about how hard the Carolina system is for players. I think Rantanen took one look at that system and was like, "nah, I'm good."

It is a structured, calculated system that yields great results despite holes in the lineup, questionable goaltending and a lack of elite talent. But come playoff time, you need elite talent. And if your preference is lineup balance, your players cannot be spent by the time you reach the playoffs.

I remember vividly watching last year's Carolina-NYR series. The Rangers were completely dead in the water. They were one period away from being done for the season. And then suddenly, they dominated the third period and won the game and series going away. Carolina looked gassed.

If they choose to continue down this path, they are wise to continue to target the Logan Stankoven's of this world. You need young legs to play that system, and young legs are cheap legs too, which Tom Dundon wants.

That said, there was talk pre-deadline that they were discussing a contract extension with Taylor Hall. Which for me is a head-scratcher, and I love Taylor Hall.
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I think the issue is Rantanen was shocked to be traded from Colorado and didn't want to sign anywhere but two tax free markets after thinking about it in Florida and Dallas.

I don't think it's really that complicated. Jake did the same exact thing.
 
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Darren McCord said:
By who? lol that’s not miller at all. He has a few season where he has got selke votes. Highest was 15th in voting. He also Pks and throws a bunch of hits.

He would have fit great on the canes
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Pretty much anyone from the Athletic, TSN. I believe the high level commentary from anyone who reviews underlying analytics revolves around his ability to drive play (bad) vs convert on scoring chances (great).
 
Darren McCord said:
Meh are the canes really a defensive style team? They are agressive on the forecheck and generate a ton of shots. They constantly push the play. They grind down opponents.
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Brindamour wants all of his guys buying into the system and dedicating themselves to playing 100% in all areas of the ice.
 
Darren McCord said:
They still have to convince players to sign there. Necas was a really good asset that they turned into 3 worse assets. Maybe one of those first turns out better or they put multiple first together in a trade but they went from quality to quantity.
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I don’t know how you can say that so definitively. You don’t even know what those 1sts will turn into.
 
Gurglesons said:
They will have 30+ mil in cap next year.

They will likely make huge moves this summer.

Aho is a great player. But, he isn't a Sid or McDavid where you go all in every year with him.

Canes have a bunch of great prospects. They have as many 1st rounders as us in the next three years.

They have everything they need to be a very, very good team over the next three years.
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I think the star players they need weren’t available this deadline. But they can use a couple of those 1sts in the next year or so to get elite talent when it pops up if they want to.
 
OK I'm over the flurry of the trade deadline and ready to talk next season. I have to figure Jarry, Graves are bought out or traded with retention, but for now I'll just demote them. I sure hope they don't re-sign Gryzelcyk unless they move Karlsson. Both Karlsson and Letang need real solid, low event D partners to enable them. Maybe Pickering can be one of those but that's not Gryz at all. For now I assume Gryz walks and Karlsson stays, but it could easily go the other way.

Rakell seems to be staying, and I'm great with that. He'd be hard to replace. I think Koivunen is coming up out of camp and I'd like to see Ponomarev get a look. Broz and McGroarty are on their way but I'm not penciling them in just yet.

We need a top 6 F and a 1LD to be even passable. Marner is a dream, But what about 8m each at Sam Bennett and Vladislov Gavrikov? This looks pretty OK.
 

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DesertPenguin said:
OK I'm over the flurry of the trade deadline and ready to talk next season. I have to figure Jarry, Graves are bought out or traded with retention, but for now I'll just demote them. I sure hope they don't re-sign Gryzelcyk unless they move Karlsson. Both Karlsson and Letang need real solid, low event D partners to enable them. Maybe Pickering can be one of those but that's not Gryz at all. For now I assume Gryz walks and Karlsson stays, but it could easily go the other way.

Rakell seems to be staying, and I'm great with that. He'd be hard to replace. I think Koivunen is coming up out of camp and I'd like to see Ponomarev get a look. Broz and McGroarty are on their way but I'm not penciling them in just yet.

We need a top 6 F and a 1LD to be even passable. Marner is a dream, But what about 8m each at Sam Bennett and Vladislov Gavrikov? This looks pretty OK.
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rinkroyalty.com

LA Kings provide update on extension negotiations with Vladislav Gavrikov

At the time of the NHL Trade Deadline, players currently in the final year of their contracts could be made available. The thought process for teams like the Lo
rinkroyalty.com rinkroyalty.com
 
Ulf5 said:
rinkroyalty.com

LA Kings provide update on extension negotiations with Vladislav Gavrikov

At the time of the NHL Trade Deadline, players currently in the final year of their contracts could be made available. The thought process for teams like the Lo
rinkroyalty.com rinkroyalty.com
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Well nuts. Let's see if I had the AAV right. The cap going up as much as it is, and projected to continue to rise, is going to result in some eye popping contracts given out this summer.

I'm not seeing much of quality out there at LHD on the UFA market after Gavrikov, at least not under 30. There's ironically more RHD available.

Provorov or Chychrun, but neither of them really fits what I think we need.
 
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I think this off season, one of the first blokes that will be fired should be Andy Chiodo. There is no way a bloke survives after the shit show the goalies turn into at the NHL level the last two seasons, if Tisi is promoted or Dubas has another bloke in mind, fine. But Andy Chiodo definitely has to be done at the end of this season.

And if we're lucky - Sully, Quinn, and Vellucci are also gone.
 
DesertPenguin said:
Well nuts. Let's see if I had the AAV right. The cap going up as much as it is, and projected to continue to rise, is going to result in some eye popping contracts given out this summer.

I'm not seeing much of quality out there at LHD on the UFA market after Gavrikov, at least not under 30. There's ironically more RHD available.

Provorov or Chychrun, but neither of them really fits what I think we need.
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Mate if Sullivan is still here as the coach, why even bother wanting any of those players?

Also why the f*** would any player come to the Pens? Pens are, at this stage, a team that has to over pay to bring free agents like that or they're taking reclamation projects galore that are more grinder types Sullivan gets a fat chubby dunkin donut in his Boston themed budgie smugglers. This isn't a team you even want to sign a 1yr deal with like they used to under Shero and Disco, then go and earn a better deal after a reboot to their careers.

If you're a player that gets to pick his spot. Are you seriously choosing the Pens where the coach will misuse you and you'll end up being blamed for his mistakes and take all the heat while he doesn't? Lol, f*** no. Pens have missed the playoffs the last 2 seasons, are missing this year and don't look like they're going to learn any lessons.

Look at the free agent the Pens drew the interest of this last off season....

Anthony "traded 4 times in 2 seasons and played for 6 different teams in 2 seasons " Beauvillier.

Then there's Lizotte who probably is super bummed he didn't get moved at the deadline to escape this shit show. Grzelcyk knew he was gonna get glazed by two beantown dipshits. Poor Heinen, he was probably like "Wow my hometown team is a real shit show this year..." To being traded back to the Pens and is like "Wow I thought Vancouver was in a bad spot."
 
eXile3 said:
No. We’re still paying Jack Johnson. Buyouts are awful.
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Aren't you glad the almighty Mike Sullivan petitioned for signing Jack Johnson and presenting a plan on how to utilize him?

Also 916k for another year after this isn't that bad. It's a drop in the can for the team and the cap space they have next year.
 
McGroarty2 said:
Would you consider using a buyout for Graves? Is it possible someone would take him in a trade? I believe a buyout would look like this...

Current cap hit of $4.500 for 4 more years

Buyout cap hit of $2.400, $3.400, $3.400, $3.650, $0.646, $0.646, $0.646, $0.646
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I wonder if the Islanders would be willing to swap Engvall for him. Their coach hates Engvall.
Gurglesons said:
Speaking of Dallas. Dubas should be all over offer sheeting Bourque.

If you give him 4.5 mil it costs a 2nd round pick. Dallas has around 5ish mil next year.
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Unfortunately, a Tyler Seguin buyout is an obnoxiously easy buyout for them to absorb. He must've gotten a lot of signing bonuses earlier in the contract.
 
Honour Over Glory said:
I think this off season, one of the first blokes that will be fired should be Andy Chiodo. There is no way a bloke survives after the shit show the goalies turn into at the NHL level the last two seasons, if Tisi is promoted or Dubas has another bloke in mind, fine. But Andy Chiodo definitely has to be done at the end of this season.

And if we're lucky - Sully, Quinn, and Vellucci are also gone.
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I agree with you on premise, but if they fire anybody but keep Sullivan then this whole shitshow will keep going on...and on...and on.
 
At this point, it feels like everybody in the organization (from FSG right on down to the fourth-line drek) is fully accepting of the fact that this team is awful. Oh sure, the pro-tank crowd was angry that we did not trade Rakell and Karlsson at the deadline. But honestly, does it matter?

This team is fully capable of losing and losing and losing no matter who is playing. I was completely wrong to suggest that you cannot tank with Sidney Crosby leading the way, but the reality is you don't have to tank at all when you just lose games anyway.

If Mike Sullivan remains behind the bench, then not only will we be in the 2025 draft lottery, but we probably are among the favorites to be in the 2026 draft lottery as well.

I may be wrong about this too, but I think even if Mitch Marner came on board, and we won this year's draft lottery and drafted Matthew Shaefer, and kept Karlsson and Rakell, we would STILL be in the '26 draft lottery. All because of Mike Sullivan.

The kids will not develop. The core is just getting older. The defense will remain in shambles and the goaltending has no chance. And the lineup will continue to be ugly as shit, and the lineup decisions will leave us scratching our heads as if we all had poison ivy.

So if you are worried about actually winning enough games to be back in the mushy middle next season, honestly I would not be. Not until/unless there is a coaching change.
 
DesertPenguin said:
OK I'm over the flurry of the trade deadline and ready to talk next season. I have to figure Jarry, Graves are bought out or traded with retention, but for now I'll just demote them. I sure hope they don't re-sign Gryzelcyk unless they move Karlsson. Both Karlsson and Letang need real solid, low event D partners to enable them. Maybe Pickering can be one of those but that's not Gryz at all. For now I assume Gryz walks and Karlsson stays, but it could easily go the other way.

Rakell seems to be staying, and I'm great with that. He'd be hard to replace. I think Koivunen is coming up out of camp and I'd like to see Ponomarev get a look. Broz and McGroarty are on their way but I'm not penciling them in just yet.

We need a top 6 F and a 1LD to be even passable. Marner is a dream, But what about 8m each at Sam Bennett and Vladislov Gavrikov? This looks pretty OK.
Click to expand...
Some of our new players next year will be through trading our picks. That's impossible to project onto a lineup right now, but just saying that it won't be all UFA.
The culture for UFAs signing with contenders is peaking, so I don't expect us to be a draw for much quality that way until we're either a playoff team or close to it.
 
Jag68Sid87 said:
Oh sure, the pro-tank crowd was angry that we did not trade Rakell and Karlsson at the deadline. But honestly, does it matter?
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Impossible to say without knowing what those 1sts would turn into. But probably matters, yeah. Possibly a great deal. We'll never know for sure.
I'll add that it sucks Rust will stay too. That's 3 1sts (plus whatever else) that we're opting out of when we're miles away from Cups and will just waste those players.
Bordering on sabotage. We could have had 7 1sts over the next 3 years.
Jag68Sid87 said:
This team is fully capable of losing and losing and losing no matter who is playing. I was completely wrong to suggest that you cannot tank with Sidney Crosby leading the way, but the reality is you don't have to tank at all when you just lose games anyway.
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Most hockey fans around the world overestimate the impact of Centers. Top D-men and goalies control results more. But it's still a 19-man sport at the end of the day. There's only so much 1 guy can do without help, especially if they're not elite anymore.
Jag68Sid87 said:
If Mike Sullivan remains behind the bench, then not only will we be in the 2025 draft lottery, but we probably are among the favorites to be in the 2026 draft lottery as well.
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Depends how much draft capital Dubas is willing to spend for roster players. If it's just a small amount then yeah, lottery again next year. If he spends more then maybe a near playoff miss is the ceiling.
It's just a weird direction when we haven't even developed our next core yet. Super rushed.
 
Honour Over Glory said:
Aren't you glad the almighty Mike Sullivan petitioned for signing Jack Johnson and presenting a plan on how to utilize him?

Also 916k for another year after this isn't that bad. It's a drop in the can for the team and the cap space they have next year.
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Sullivan is the coach, Dubas is the GM, FSG owns the team and they're going to try to compete again before Sid retires. These are facts and they are unlikely to change, so complaining about them is like yelling at the sky. Pointless.

Id rather consider what it would take to pull off this plan and that's going to take a top line F and LD. Sure, not everyone will be willing to sign here, and we'll need to pay a premium for guys, but it's still Pittsburgh and it's still Sid. We didn't suddenly become Columbus, and even there they managed to sign Johnny Gadreau, God rest him. This isn't as bleak as you claim.
 
The transition to young talent or younger talent like Tomasino, Timmons, Novak, St Ivany, Shea and I see some more of that in the off season. But the major moves will be the development and maturing of the Rutgers M. Pickering, Broz, Ponomarev, possibly Koivunen if he can be stronger. The next steps are draft selections to address center and RW. That is at least a 2 or 3 year proposition to get into top 5 or close to that. This is all encompassing Sullivan and his coaching. I am clear he has to go as his time is up. New coaching and new emphasis on playing bigger, stronger and faster and new structure. Dubas to get there has to do this.
 
I just hope there is a good thoughtful balance on how to use the draft capital. I know the thought is to use some of it on young players for now, but I don't want them to go overboard. I would rather they start trading a handful of the prospects we have instead. Like I'd rather trade Bemstrom or Puustinen instead of a 2nd. I might prefer to trade Poulin instead of a 3rd.

At most, I'd like to do 2 forwards and 1 dman. Pie in the sky for me is:
Turcotte+Clarke for Rakell+3rd
Bourque for 2nd+3rd
EK+Ponomarov to Carolina for Morrow+Nikita Artamonov
NYR 1st + Turcotte to Buffalo for JJ Peterka

Malkin-Crosby-Rust
Peterka-Bourque-Tomasino
McGroarty-Novak-Koivunen
Heinen-Lizotte-Hallander
Acciari

Pickering-Letang
Gryz-Morrow/Clarke
POJ-Timmins
Morrow/Clarke (however the pairings work best)

That's two big roster players out with quality young depth coming back. I believe they are all fair trades based on values previously discussed. Wild card here is who we draft in 2025. If it's Misa, you rework a new things. Potentially you don't need Bourque if it's Hagens or Misa. And potentially you don't need Tomasino if it's Misa or Martone. I'd like Frondell to start in the AHL.

Following year:

Peterka-Crosby-Misa
McGroarty-McKenna-Koivunen
Hallander-Novak/Bourque-Rust

Pickering-Clarke
Pieniniemi-Morrow
Brunicke-Letang
 
I assume those even mentioning Marner’s name as a free agent signing are those same people that liked the Guentzel trade, and thought there was even a remote chance that Jake would sign back here this summer.
 
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