Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXVI: Sid is Still Goat

[Empoleon8771]

McKenna-Crosby-Rust
Koivunen-Frondell-Marner
McGroarty-XXXXX-XXXXX

Chychrun-Brunicke
Pickering-Letang

Murashov-Blomqvist

I could potentially see the framework for a competitive team starting in 2027-2028, but you're really asking a lot out of those young prospects to develop well, win some timely draft lotteries and hit on some top UFA targets to really make it possible. I would also bet that Pickering-Letang would be more likely a 3rd pair quality than a 2nd pair quality by 2027-2028.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not sure this team's gonna be relevant/competing again for another 5+ years, even if things fall into place perfectly and they land all of Misa/Martone, McKenna and Dupont over the next three drafts.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Penguins getting McKenna next year would absolutely shock me.

 

[Malkinstheman]

If Buffalo decides to keep Tuch, maybe Tampa pivots to Rakell. They really want to add a winger with term in the next few days

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Your initial post:



I'm not moving the goalposts. I'm still responding to your initial claim that Rakell will still be on this contract when they plan to be competitive. Rakell's contract expires after the 2027-2028 season.

After correct. AFTER. Which is the entire point.

That is more than 3 full seasons from now.

Thats within the debut window of every current notable prospect they have (and maybe even this year 1sts), plus 3 years of ufas with an increasing cap and money to spend not to mention trying to squeeze the last drops out of the Crosby era.

Im certainly not saying its gonna work.

But the return for Guentzel could have easily been multiple scatterd picks instead of 2 near ready prospects and bunting.

They didnt have to move a good prospect for a near ready prospects in McGroarty.

They dont have to dangle that 1st (nyr) for a more ready young player.

They could get a late first or multiple scatter draft picks tomorrow for Rakell if they wanted to.

But every one of those actions/inactions is pointing to the fact that they know they need to rebuild BUT that they want to do it in a very specific and accelerated timeline. One in which, at least, arguably within the Rakell contract.

Thats why it NEEDs to be in the context of the “should we trade Rakell” discussion. And why the “ if hes here on 3/8 its a failure what are you doing nerd” is BS at its core.

It also allows more time to see If your rebuild is working. If the prospects flame out or you cant get your FAs that your targeting and need to change gears to a longer window he can be traded next year with still a valuable contract term.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I'm not sure this team's gonna be relevant/competing again for another 5+ years, even if things fall into place perfectly and they land all of Misa/Martone, McKenna and Dupont over the next three drafts.

For the sake of BSing online - say things went perfectly and they got Schaefer, McKenna, DuPont in subsequent drafts

I think you gotta put some pieces around them at that point. Help them develop a bit.

I don’t think we are going to be “relevant” like an Edmonton or Florida is right now until 2030 at the earliest. I do hope before 2030 we are “decent” like an Utah or Ottawa is this season so the young guys we pick up don’t have to develop in complete squalor.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

i'm not hung up on dates so much as full rebuild v re-tool/quick turnaround. Chicago got Bedard but I don't think they're any closer to truly competing. You can set a date for yourself, but the date is just based around your philosophy.

Absolutley thats my point. Their target, not what actually will or wont work.

Hell, i dont think its gonna work. But thats a completely different discussion.

My only point is that any one specific move needs that context.

 

[Empoleon8771]

For the sake of BSing online - say things went perfectly and they got Schaefer, McKenna, DuPont in subsequent drafts

I think you gotta put some pieces around them at that point. Help them develop a bit.

I don’t think we are going to be “relevant” like an Edmonton or Florida is right now until 2030. I do hope we are “decent” like a Utah or Ottawa is this season so the young guys don’t have to develop in complete squalor.

If you can do that, I definitely think you can be competitive. Issue is I'm pretty sure that isn't allowed due to the new draft lottery rules, unless they truly bottom out and finish last in the NHL.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

If you can do that, I definitely think you can be competitive. Issue is I'm pretty sure that isn't allowed due to the new draft lottery rules, unless they truly bottom out and finish last in the NHL.

Yeah my point is not about 1OA every single year im using an extreme to get my thought process across.

Just saying say if you add transformative talent in three straight drafts (so three straight top 5 picks) you should shoot to create an environment for them to develop.

 

[IcedCapp]

Absolutley thats my point. Their target, not what actually will or wont work.

Hell, i dont think its gonna work. But thats a completely different discussion.

My only point is that any one specific move needs that context.

alright, to be fair to everyone involved, I'm not picking sides or saying someone is right or wrong. I feel like way too many people (i'm not saying this is applicable to you) are emotionally reacting to something they perceive will happen as opposed to something that is actually happening. I have absolutely no nerves going into the TDL. I don't think Dubas does anything remotely stupid.

I am truly interested to see how he tackles the off-season. If he doesn't pivot into a retool, I wonder if Sid actually changes his mind about legacy.

 

[TimmyD]

Dubas waiting to see the return on Tuch (if he’s moved) before moving Rakell is gonna be a fun game between now and Friday. Just trade him man. Take a first plus a prospect and get him out of here. But God forbid we make Sid a little uncomfortable.

 

[IcedCapp]

Dubas waiting to see the return on Tuch (if he’s moved) before moving Rakell is gonna be a fun game between now and Friday. Just trade him man. Take a first plus a prospect and get him out of here. But God forbid we make Sid a little uncomfortable.

Yeah. i'm tired of that freeloader Sid ruining this team.

 

[tnnr]

I think Rakell + Gryzlyk to LA for Trevor Moore, 2025 1st, Francisco Pinelli , Jack Hughes

Beauviller to Ottawa for Tyler Boucher

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think Sid's sticking around regardless of what direction the team chooses.

The Tuch situation is interesting. Maybe Dubas is waiting, or teams are waiting, to see how that plays out.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If you're talking a Rakell and Grzelcyk package, I think Tampa could be interested in that package. They're in the market for Tuch to fill a 2nd line RW role so the Rakell fit is obvious, but they're also pretty thin on defense after their top-4. I believe they're currently running with:

Hedman-Moser
McDonagh-Cernak
Lilleberg-Raddysh

Lilleberg sticks out as a major weak point on this team IMO, Grzelcyk could slide into that 3rd pair LD role and provide a notable upgrade on Lilleberg for this year. I also think Raddysh and Perbix (other RD option for the 3rd pair) also complement Grzelcyk pretty well.

The only issue is I don't think the Lightning have the cap space to make both Rakell and Grzelcyk work without retaining money on Rakell, which they shouldn't do. The Penguins could take Perbix back to help with the cap, but I think that would lessen the futures return the Penguins would get. Maybe something like:

Penguins trade Rakell and Grzelcyk at 50%
Lightning trade Perbix, Geekie and a 2025 2nd

You'd then probably flip Perbix for like a 4th, similar to Ruhwedel, so you'd end up with Geekie, a 2nd and 4th for Rakell and Grzelcyk.

 

[Freeptop]

1. They are reports of their action. From well sourced national reporters like Friedman.

Not arguing either side of the semantic debate going on there, but I do want to point out that this cycle happens all the time:
- Friedman says or writes about how team A "might be interested in doing X" (or some other wording that indicates that he's providing his own, personal speculation, rather than something he's been told).
- Another reporter then puts out something like, "team A is rumored to be interesting in doing X, as per Elliotte Friedman".
- A third reporter then cites _that_ report as "team A is rumored to be doing X", leaving out the original Friedman citation, thus losing the link back to it actually being speculation.
- Friedman then ends up saying in a later podcast, "third reporter says that team A is considering doing X, much like I thought they might".

Suddenly, Friedman's speculation has become a full-blown rumor, despite never having been informed by a single "inside" source. I don't even think it's anything deliberate. It's just that as each reporter is re-wording things in their own voice, some information gets lost along the way - it's the old game of telephone, only we get to how it changes on every step along the way.

I have literally watched this happen in real-time on multiple occasions.

 

[SEALBound]

If Buffalo decides to keep Tuch, maybe Tampa pivots to Rakell. They really want to add a winger with term in the next few days

Incoming Tampa saying "We'll give you thre- , no, FOUR 1st round picks, and a 2nd, and a 3rd, 2 5ths, a 7th, and the collection of dinosaur toys from our 2nd sons room."

For the sake of BSing online - say things went perfectly and they got Schaefer, McKenna, DuPont in subsequent drafts

I think you gotta put some pieces around them at that point. Help them develop a bit.

I don’t think we are going to be “relevant” like an Edmonton or Florida is right now until 2030 at the earliest. I do hope before 2030 we are “decent” like an Utah or Ottawa is this season so the young guys we pick up don’t have to develop in complete squalor.

I think you could argue that's what they are doing now. If you look at the WBS lineup, it's quite decent. Not everyone will pan out but you can add via trade and FA. I think "perfect" is Misa, McKenna, and DuPont. Schaefer would be great but we need that extra star forward not a 2nd #1. But if you get them and combine it with what we have now, you can run:

McGroarty-Sid-Misa
Koivunen-McKenna-Rust
Howe-Ponomarov-Hallander
Poulin-Broz-Fernstrom

Pickering-DuPont
Pie-Brunicke

Murashov-Blomqvist

When Sid retires, you shift Misa to center and add a wing. Once you have Misa and McKenna, that's your core that you build around up front. The hard part is done, now it's a matter of tweaking. On the back end, DuPont is your #1 and you in around them.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Incoming Tampa saying "We'll give you thre- , no, FOUR 1st round picks, and a 2nd, and a 3rd, 2 5ths, a 7th, and the collection of dinosaur toys from our 2nd sons room."

I think you could argue that's what they are doing now. If you look at the WBS lineup, it's quite decent. Not everyone will pan out but you can add via trade and FA. I think "perfect" is Misa, McKenna, and DuPont. Schaefer would be great but we need that extra star forward not a 2nd #1. But if you get them and combine it with what we have now, you can run:

McGroarty-Sid-Misa
Koivunen-McKenna-Rust
Howe-Ponomarov-Hallander
Poulin-Broz-Fernstrom

Pickering-DuPont
Pie-Brunicke

Murashov-Blomqvist

When Sid retires, you shift Misa to center and add a wing. Once you have Misa and McKenna, that's your core that you build around up front. The hard part is done, now it's a matter of tweaking. On the back end, DuPont is your #1 and you in around them.

This is way lost in the weeds on specific draft prospects

I’m just saying I think we should try to be decent quickly once we have 3 or so blue chippers in the system.

 

[SEALBound]

This is way lost in the weeds on specific draft prospects

I’m just saying I think we should try to be decent quickly once we have 3 or so blue chippers in the system.

If they are foundational, core pieces lika Misa, McKenna, or DuPont - yes, absolutely. The organization should be willing to fire up the boilers again if you get a McKenna or DuPont because their ELCs are a MAJOR competitive window. I imagine after their ELC, they'll be wanting big dollars then you're Edmonton.

 

[Victor Z]

Suddenly, Friedman's speculation has become a full-blown rumor, despite never having been informed by a single "inside" source. I don't even think it's anything deliberate. It's just that as each reporter is re-wording things in their own voice, some information gets lost along the way - it's the old game of telephone, only we get to how it changes on every step along the way.

I have it on good authority that Rakell is going to be traded to L.A. for a #1 pick, Trevor Moore purple monkey dishwasher

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Rakell seems like the kinda guy Vegas would acquire at the deadline.

Nevermind they have no 1sts.

They have their 2027 1st, and all 1sts in the years after that.
It might actually make more sense in our case to take a later year, since we're that far away from being contenders. The next wave would be a little bit younger when the team's ready.

I wouldn't be opposed to that. Not really hell-bent on a late 2026 1st.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

If they are foundational, core pieces lika Misa, McKenna, or DuPont - yes, absolutely. The organization should be willing to fire up the boilers again if you get a McKenna or DuPont because their ELCs are a MAJOR competitive window. I imagine after their ELC, they'll be wanting big dollars then you're Edmonton.

You are missing the point per usual. As great as guys may sound you don’t know who is foundational until they get into the league and play a season or two. All I’m sayin is to have a good infrastructure in place for whoever is taken to play meaningful games in February. Rather than perpetual tank. I shouldn’t have used names because you’re getting caught up on Misa vs X prospect and so on.

 

[SEALBound]

You are missing the point per usual. As great as guys may sound you don’t know who is foundational until they get into the league and play a season or two. All I’m sayin is to have a good infrastructure in place for whoever is taken to play meaningful games in February. Rather than perpetual tank. I shouldn’t have used names because you’re getting caught up on Misa vs X prospect and so on.

I guess I don't really how what I said was in contradiction to that?

I also don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that there should be organization discretion on the path forward based on who we get in the next three drafts.

But, okay, nice chattin with ya I guess.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Not arguing either side of the semantic debate going on there, but I do want to point out that this cycle happens all the time:
- Friedman says or writes about how team A "might be interested in doing X" (or some other wording that indicates that he's providing his own, personal speculation, rather than something he's been told).
- Another reporter then puts out something like, "team A is rumored to be interesting in doing X, as per Elliotte Friedman".
- A third reporter then cites _that_ report as "team A is rumored to be doing X", leaving out the original Friedman citation, thus losing the link back to it actually being speculation.
- Friedman then ends up saying in a later podcast, "third reporter says that team A is considering doing X, much like I thought they might".

Suddenly, Friedman's speculation has become a full-blown rumor, despite never having been informed by a single "inside" source. I don't even think it's anything deliberate. It's just that as each reporter is re-wording things in their own voice, some information gets lost along the way - it's the old game of telephone, only we get to how it changes on every step along the way.

I have literally watched this happen in real-time on multiple occasions.

Sure the internet speculation goes ape shit all the time.

Thats why im using what Friedman said and not what some twitter clown NHHLtrueforrealzhockeyrumorzzzz etc is saying based on an aggregation acct of what friedman said

“Pittsburgh’s made it clear it has forwards, defencemen and goalies available. The Penguins are willing to use their cap space to take on contracts, as long as it gets what they really desire: young players, prospects and draft picks (in that order).”

 

[Andy99]

I think Sid's sticking around regardless of what direction the team chooses.

The Tuch situation is interesting. Maybe Dubas is waiting, or teams are waiting, to see how that plays out.

Tuch is a better player, well I can at least see him being of more interest to playoff teams as a likely better playoff performer