Blow it up, the team is finished even being a playoff outsider. There is no way they can improve until the core is retired. They are in no man’s land.
Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXV - Poolman and Poolparty?!?
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Randy Butternubs
Registurd User
pistolpete11
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2013
- 12,296
- 11,406
The time to fire Sullivan, besides at any point in the last 6 years, was towards the end of November.
I posted at the time they were 7-12-4 or something. They needed to win like 7 in a row and they'd STILL be WORSE than they were when they fired JOHNSTON.
This year was toast when they didn't make a move then.
I understand a new coach might breath new life into them and worsen their chances at a high pick while still not making the playoffs, but....Sullivan might do that anyway. Look at them post deadline last year. So I'd still be happy to just be rid of him once and for all. Don't have to worry about him going on a run and them convincing themselves he's still a good coach and hasn't lost the room.
I posted at the time they were 7-12-4 or something. They needed to win like 7 in a row and they'd STILL be WORSE than they were when they fired JOHNSTON.
This year was toast when they didn't make a move then.
I understand a new coach might breath new life into them and worsen their chances at a high pick while still not making the playoffs, but....Sullivan might do that anyway. Look at them post deadline last year. So I'd still be happy to just be rid of him once and for all. Don't have to worry about him going on a run and them convincing themselves he's still a good coach and hasn't lost the room.
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
I have not heard a single convincing argument for keeping Sullivan. Even if you want to tank there are cheaper and more exciting ways of doing it than this.
Shit, make Bourque coach and then fire him too.
Shit, make Bourque coach and then fire him too.
Gurglesons
Registered User
I don't agree with it but their stance is definitely that they trust him & want him to be the coach that molds the next core of Penguins. And he seems to be OK with that as well. That's the one and only argument and I can understand it. Don't agree with it, but if they care more about his ability as a coach and less about his ability to win with this core, I can understand it.
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
I completely agree. But right now, the decisions of the teams direction and what they plan to do with the UFA and also some of the players under contract are what's the priority. MS can stay until the off season where KD will have to see the mold of the team that he will have put together and who he wants in charge to take over and lead us back to winning ways in the future
IcedCapp
Registered User
- Aug 7, 2009
- 36,150
- 12,210
So i've said multiple times I'm fine with losing, and that hasn't changed. At this point, I think it's time to just start moving pieces. There's no hope of making the playoffs, you just lost your two best chances for an easy 4 points to stay in the race. This is basically as good as your roster is going to get for the remainder of the season. There's no reason to continue to hold on to any piece you're okay with moving. Let the blood flow, so we can all move on.
addendum: please keep 4 offensively-talented people around to help Sid limp to a ppg pace for this season.
addendum: please keep 4 offensively-talented people around to help Sid limp to a ppg pace for this season.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I think the only issue here is that those 4 offensively talented people are the only players that you can even realistically sell on this team. Everyone else has minimal value.
I think Pettersson, Grzelcyk, O'Connor and Beauvillier are the only guys that will end up getting moved. I'd move at least one of Bunting and Rakell as well, especially if Malkin is going to be out for an extended window.
Even if they're not planning on this being their lineup for next year, I want to see as many young guys in their top-9 as possible to end the season. Even if it's something like:
McGroarty-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Koivunen
Bemstrom-Ponomarev-Tomasino
IcedCapp
Registered User
- Aug 7, 2009
- 36,150
- 12,210
We could keep Letang, Malkin, Sid, and move everyone else, call up McThroaty and basically play those 4 together full time. Then everyone is getting their points!
Gurglesons
Registered User
Gulp!
I guess if they get value out of Vancouver for MP28, I’d be fine for it. So hypothetically MP with no retention for a 1st, a prospect and JT Miller with no retention
CheckingLineCenter
Registered User
- Aug 10, 2018
- 9,566
- 10,462
Yeah the counter argument is def that Rust Rakell etc are in their 30s, not 26-27
But do want whoever is coming up the pipe to have some sort of talent around them.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Duffy13
(ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ ┻━┻
The core doesn't necessarily have to retire, they just can't be considered the core anymore.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
He won't but Dubas has the ability to force his hand and play young guys.
Send out Beauvillier, O'Connor and Rakell and call up Ponomarev, McGroarty and Koivunen. Tell him "make it work".
KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
Wheeler put him on the same tier as McGroarty and Pronman put him ahead of McGroarty
It's quite possible Dubas if he got let's say the 28th overall still takes someone like Brunicke.
GMs start going off the wall and picking guys 10 higher because they like the guy and can't trade down or something.
Dubas got like 3+ 2nds in that deal.
Brunicke is not a blue chip but he's damn close
You want to shit on the Karlsson deal go for it but the complaining about a good return on a player refusing to negotiate with us or any other team as a rental is not it.
Honestly I would take JT Miller. 8 million dollar cap hit. Can play C if either get injured. I can see Crosby and Him get a lot of points together.
- Jun 13, 2010
- 43,569
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People would still bitch because it's not about the draft pick or the player, its about the agenda.
It's like when Rutherford traded Sundqvist+1st for Reaves+2nd. They moves back like 20 slots. They took Zach Lauzon with the 2nd. Later, Rutherford said that is who they would have taken with the 1st anyway. So it literally made zero difference. BUT...that didn't stop people from complaining that JR "gave away a 1st for Reaves".
You give people too much credit.
IcedCapp
Registered User
- Aug 7, 2009
- 36,150
- 12,210
pretty sure the Pens have been "linked" to JT Miller for 2-3 seasons now. I can't imagine the point in bringing him in now. 2 weeks ago, it'd have been a desperate move that made sense because they were in the playoffs (technically). Now it would be stupidity, unless they're giving him to us for free
Saad going to waivers…. He’s 32 so this is probably the time the Pens finally get him…
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I'd actually claim him solely because it gives you an even easier justification to trading one of Bunting or Rakell. He's not having that bad of a season (7 goals and 16 points in 43 games) and had 26 goals last year.
He has this year and next year at $4.5 million, with a full NTC this year and a 12 team NTC next year. Seems like an obvious guy you can flip next deadline.
KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
Only if we traded a top 6 forward today or tomorrow.
We got too many Vets as it is.
Khelandros
Registered User
- Feb 12, 2019
- 4,585
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Pittsburgh boy. Not from Massachusetts. Doesn't PK. Not a Sullivan guy.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I don't see what difference it makes whether they have that extra vet for the next 5 games or not
He does actually PK, he just hasn't much in the past 2 years.
I'm sure J.T. Miller who is a competitive guy who yells at his teammates for not competing will absolutely love coming to this shit ass team
IcedCapp
Registered User
- Aug 7, 2009
- 36,150
- 12,210
maybe he'd murder sullivan, we shouldn't be too hasty in our dislike of the idea
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