Rumor: 23-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Part Trois: The Road to the Deadline

[BoneCherry]

How about Jenner for Rants?

 

[MacKaRant]

I was perusing some info from last year's trade deadline and came across a couple of interesting transactions :

Minnesota retained 25% of Orlov's salary ($1.275M) for a 5th round pick
Minnesota retained 25% of ROR's salary ($1.875M) for a 4th round pick

I know the situation is different with Ryjo since he's got another year left but I get the feeling no matter who ends up with him at the end of the season is likely going to buy him out.

Maybe... if we trade him and get enough teams involved, we can get him down to less than league minimum and all it will cost is FOUR 4th round picks !!!!

I know you're being facetious, but for clarity, there is a limit of two retainments per contract. Since Nashville is already retaining half, the best we can do is facilitate a trade at full value to one team and then that team passes him on at 50% to another team with the assumption being both teams get Avalanche picks and/or prospects. Or we can just buy him out next off-season if he doesn't want to play the Matt Murray or John Klingberg game.

 

[BobRossColton]

So force Mikko to be 2C is our TDL.

 

[Pokecheque]

I'd forgotten about Mark. I thought he and Dale had just settled in and become content with the Knights. Are they both still looking towards the NHL or just Mark at this point?

I think it's just Mark. It doesn't take a genius or insider to figure out that he didn't take kindly to Shanhan and the Maple Leafs choosing Dubas over him to succeed Lamoriello in Toronto. He definitely wants a shot at the NHL. I'm curious as to how he does, he's known as a very good evaluator of talent but he's as old-school as it gets.

Dale was briefly the head coach of the Capitals and couldn't get outta there fast enough.

 

[LOFIN]

Evan Rawal just posted they're trying Rants at C.

Not sure if that counts, but sounds like they're shopping for wingers.

Something that should've been done like 1,5 years ago. I'm not even going to bother saying better late than never, because we are way too late.

I'm actually fairly optimistic about this working out, and then we see how Bednar and CMac go all surprise Pikachu face when this could've been their answer to the C problem for 1,5 years ago, if they only f***ing bothered to try it.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I mean might as well try Mikko at C for the next 3 weeks. I don’t believe he’s a C, but if they can make it work adding a higher end W would be wayyy easier at the deadline than adding a 2C. But I still don’t have a ton of faith in Mikko at C.

 

[the_fan]

How about Jenner for Rants?

No, but I’d do Mikko for Kerfoot

 

[BobRossColton]

We could've been watching kakko?

 

[henchman21]

I'd forgotten about Mark. I thought he and Dale had just settled in and become content with the Knights. Are they both still looking towards the NHL or just Mark at this point?

Just Mark... Dale seems content. Though it wouldn't shock me if Mark got a NHL GM job and he fired a coach if Dale got a run.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

So force Mikko to be 2C is our TDL.

I mean... desperate times. But also, he also probably is our best chance at getting a high end 2C.


Would also make thr Guentzel rumors make more sense.

 

[LOFIN]

We could've been watching kakko?

Still doesn't make sense for the Rangers to move him

 

[Bender]

You might be reading this slightly off. Minny retained 25% of the cap hit for Orlov and ROR and 25% of the remaining salary to be paid (the real dollars of it). This excludes bonuses and any previously paid amounts. Orlov's salary for the whole season last year was 1.3m. ROR's was 1m. For ease of math just assume at that point they had been paid 75% of the season leaving 25% (they were probably 25% for Orlov and 27% for ROR). That leaves ~325k for Orlov and ~250k for ROR... of which Minny paid out in real cash 81.25k for Orlov and 62.5k for ROR.

RyJo as of today has about 5.5m left in salary to be paid out as he has no signing bonuses. At best... 1.5m left for this year than 2.67m as a buyout over two seasons for a total of 4.17m. We are in completely different realms.

This whole last bit of the season, high signing bonus guys is why it pretty cheap to get retention at the deadline. Guys like Savard who had only salary cost a bit more get elevated to the 3rd or even 2nd round.

Dammit!

I know you're being facetious, but for clarity, there is a limit of two retainments per contract. Since Nashville is already retaining half, the best we can do is facilitate a trade at full value to one team and then that team passes him on at 50% to another team with the assumption being both teams get Avalanche picks and/or prospects. Or we can just buy him out next off-season if he doesn't want to play the Matt Murray or John Klingberg game.

Double Dammit!

 

[henchman21]

Still doesn't make sense for the Rangers to move him

Where I think it makes sense is Rangers move him as a key piece in a deal where a team still values him highly. I'd just imagine those teams are getting fewer and fewer. If they could get say Laughton and Walker for Kakko and a 1st... that makes a ton of sense for New York.

 

[LOFIN]

Where I think it makes sense is Rangers move him as a key piece in a deal where a team still values him highly. I'd just imagine those teams are getting fewer and fewer. If they could get say Laughton and Walker for Kakko and a 1st... that makes a ton of sense for New York.

Nah f*** that. If the Rangers are going to trade Kakko, it has to be for a legitimate top-6 winger with term. Kakko, as it stands right now, is pretty damn good 3rd liner. I think he still has that top-6 (even top line) upside with him, but I don't think it's with the Rangers because his style just doesn't fit with the style of Panarin or Zibanejad (incidently, would fit with us I think). He's going to be cheap next year as well.

 

[Pokecheque]

Evan Rawal just posted they're trying Rants at C.

Not sure if that counts, but sounds like they're shopping for wingers.

Are you sure he posted that? I don't see it. He posted that they're trying Kovalenko at center today in the KHL, but I don't see anything about Rantanen.

 

[Avs44]

Edit: Nvm, Pokecheque asked the same question seconds before me.

 

[henchman21]

Nah f*** that. If the Rangers are going to trade Kakko, it has to be for a legitimate top-6 winger with term. Kakko, as it stands right now, is pretty damn good 3rd liner. I think he still has that top-6 (even top line) upside with him, but I don't think it's with the Rangers because his style just doesn't fit with the style of Panarin or Zibanejad (incidently, would fit with us I think). He's going to be cheap next year as well.

I can't see them getting a top 6 winger with term for him. Not in a world where rental middle 6 guys get a 1st and anybody on half decent contract gets their value moved up a round or another high pick added.

IMO the issues with Kakko are bad enough that I doubt he comes even close to the billing. His shot isn't a weapon, he's a pretty meh skater, and doesn't have great IQ. He needs to be a third wheel sort of guy and carve out that sort of role.

Are you sure he posted that? I don't see it. He posted that they're trying Kovalenko at center today in the KHL, but I don't see anything about Rantanen.

Whereabouts did he say this?

Maybe somebody has their algo to 'For You' and the tweet from last night reappeared.

 

[atreyuavenged]

Run a line of Lehkonen, Rants and Kakko.

 

[LOFIN]

I can't see them getting a top 6 winger with term for him. Not in a world where rental middle 6 guys get a 1st and anybody on half decent contract gets their value moved up a round or another high pick added.

So then the Rangers don't trade him. He's playing his best hockey of the season, and the Rangers 3rd line in general has been great for the last while. No need to change it unless it really improves the team.

When it comes to his deficiencies, I agree on the shot. His skating isn't that much worse than Rantanen, and his hockey IQ is just fine. I've watched both live, and there's a reason Kakko was more hyped than Rantanen. Because he absolutely was much better than what Rantanen was before the draft. I do think the way the Rangers have handled him have neutered his offensive instincts a bit, but I don't believe they have vanished.

He's kinda like Byram in a sense, where he hasn't done anything in the NHL level to really justify giving him the spot in a top line/pairing. But there's a reason these guys were drafted high and many still view them as being able to reach their potential at some point. But neither of them are going to do it with their current teams. The reason why Byram should be more on the table as for trading is simply roster construction and the difference in position value. You could in theory get a #2C or a top-6 winger back for Byram. With Kakko, you would be selling way lower, thus it makes no sense to move him for a short term marginal improvement.

With a change in scenery, I do think Byram can still become a top pairing D-man, and Kakko can become a top line winger.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Nah f*** that. If the Rangers are going to trade Kakko, it has to be for a legitimate top-6 winger with term. Kakko, as it stands right now, is pretty damn good 3rd liner. I think he still has that top-6 (even top line) upside with him, but I don't think it's with the Rangers because his style just doesn't fit with the style of Panarin or Zibanejad (incidently, would fit with us I think). He's going to be cheap next year as well.

Dude has 9pts this year. His PPG is just above Kiviranta this year. I know last year he put up 3rd line numbers, but outside that season he's been at best a fringe 3rd liner. And yes I know he's great off the puck, but you don't get a 2nd liner with term for Kakko. That'd be insane.

 

[Foppa2118]

Are you sure he posted that? I don't see it. He posted that they're trying Kovalenko at center today in the KHL, but I don't see anything about Rantanen.

Wouldn't make a lot of sense anyway. If they wanted to try Mikko at center they would have done it way sooner than a couple weeks before the deadline.

Seems pretty clear they threw that plan in the garbage. Even though they never really tried it for long enough for Mikko to get comfortable there.

I have a feeling Mikko just wants to play RW though. He might have turned into a good center if given some stability in that role to learn, but from what we've seen, he's just been a watered down version of his best self there, so it makes sense to keep him at RW to get the best out of him.

 

[henchman21]

So then the Rangers don't trade him. He's playing his best hockey of the season, and the Rangers 3rd line in general has been great for the last while. No need to change it unless it really improves the team.

When it comes to his deficiencies, I agree on the shot. His skating isn't that much worse than Rantanen, and his hockey IQ is just fine. I've watched both live, and there's a reason Kakko was more hyped than Rantanen. Because he absolutely was much better than what Rantanen was before the draft. I do think the way the Rangers have handled him have neutered his offensive instincts a bit, but I don't believe they have vanished.

He's kinda like Byram in a sense, where he hasn't done anything in the NHL level to really justify giving him the spot in a top line/pairing. But there's a reason these guys were drafted high and many still view them as being able to reach their potential at some point. But neither of them are going to do it with their current teams. The reason why Byram should be more on the table as for trading is simply roster construction and the difference in position value. You could in theory get a #2C or a top-6 winger back for Byram. With Kakko, you would be selling way lower, thus it makes no sense to move him for a short term marginal improvement.

The Rangers could really use a guy to shore up the Chytil spot in the lineup.. and Kakko is an expendable piece for it.

Scouting is imperfect and gets things wrong all the time. It is entirely possible that Kakko was just incredibly well developed as a 16/17 year old without much more headroom for growth. Then once he reached a level where everyone is strong on their skates and the ice shrinks, he just doesn't have the counter to be a high end guy. Whereas Mikko a guy who (when his bambi legs are not turned on) can just be mauled and he can make a play with no space and guys on him. Kakko doesn't seem to be able to make place with no space and can't create space... which is really the whole key to the NHL game offensively. If you can make plays in no space or create it, offense will follow. If you can't, you'll struggle.

Byram is kinda similar... but I think both limited by their weaknesses. They grew up looking like the most talented guys and got away with a lot of things because their talent was so much higher. Then when they get to a league where they may not even be top 100 or even 200 talents... they can't rely on that game to carry them. This is why guys like Jack Johnson who was hyped to an unreal level eventually change their games to become role guys. I'm not saying Byram will end up a bottom pairing role guy or anything, but this issue just isn't uncommon at all. It is honestly very common tht 3-4 guys in the top 10 fail to reach that top line/top pairing status. Many fall into that early hype and then 2nd line/middle 6/3D/middle pairing sort of guys.

As an illustration into this... the 2015 draft is regarded as one of the strongest in recent memory. The top 10 was stacked with great players (arguably 4 Hall of Famers will have been selected in the top 10). Yet Strome was the #3 pick, Zacha #6, and Provorov #7 failed to really reach that high impact level. You could even argue Werenski (mostly due to injuries), Meier (who recency bias may impact this), and Hanifin have failed to have long-term high impacts to their early projections. Meier and Werenski have a few seasons at high levels, but havven't maintained. Hanifin just topped out as a good #2... not a great one, just a good one.

 

[LOFIN]

you don't get a 2nd liner with term for Kakko. That'd be insane.

I'm not saying you would. Thus, the Rangers aren't trading him when he's much more valuable to them than what his current value is.

 

[forsbergavs32]

Did we trade for Ryan Reeves, Lars Eller and Calvin Pickard yet?

 

[LOFIN]

Kakko doesn't seem to be able to make place with no space and can't create space... which is really the whole key to the NHL game offensively. If you can make plays in no space or create it, offense will follow. If you can't, you'll struggle.

He absolutely can, that's one of his strong suits. He's arguably better than Mikko is at protecting the puck. The problem is, for you to be effective that way, you also need teammates who are looking to get into spaces and also help you dig out the puck. Which is what he has never had with the Rangers. He did have it at times with the kid line, and now again with Cuylle. And like I said, he would have it with the Avs.