21/22 Roster Speculation Thread Part VIII

[SundherDome]

It's so refreshing that we don't have a star player to trade. The mainboard is a dark place when you have a top player rumored to be be in the block

 

[BFLO]

While I do not think that the current team deserves to be tarnished by past failures, I have recently experienced an "I've seen this before" sense of doom (I may be late to the party). There is no indication we will be close to a playoff team next season. Assuming the following players are back, 2022-23 will be season 5 as Sabres for Dahlin, Mittelstadt and Thompson, season 4 for Olofsson, Asplund and Jokiharju and season 3 for Cozens and Bryson. Some of those players will be core pieces for this team and none have experienced anything but losing as Sabres. Indeed, as Sabres, these players have never been in an environment where they were surrounded by leaders, on or off ice, who even projected the idea that winning was an expected outcome.

I'm not advocating for a Tim Murray approach where we now expend lots of draft and prospect capital on acquiring veterans with the goal of shortening the rebuild. However, it seems flawed to expect that the next group of prospects (Krebs, Quinn, Peterka, Power, Johnson, Levi, etc) are going to be led to success by a group of players who not only have never experienced team success at the NHL level but have never experienced what it's like to be in an environment where team success was expected. At some point it becomes necessary to infuse the line-up with veterans who are still at least close to their primes and who know how to win. "When?", is question I guess. Or am I wrong on this?

I agree that we need to acquire good NHL veterans for this team to take the next step forward. I don't think the Murray strategy was necessarily the wrong idea, as much as it was poor execution. If you target the wrong players to build around it doesn't really matter how you acquired them.

 

[Zman5778]

I want players that give a shit.

I think what we're seeing (especially yesterday) is players that actually do give a shit. Look at Dahlin -- he knew that the Sabres were off last night.........and tried to do pretty much literally everything by himself, to varied effects. When Skinner notices the Sabres are off.....he tries to do everything himself. I think that's kinda what we're seeing with Cozens and Krebs too -- they're trying to do anything and everything to jumpstart the team.

Problem is, when too many players try to do things on their own to get us started...........games like last night happen.

The biggest thing the kids need to learn right now is that until they figure things out, doing things by themselves is exactly the wrong thing to do.

 

[jc17]

While I do not think that the current team deserves to be tarnished by past failures, I have recently experienced an "I've seen this before" sense of doom (I may be late to the party). There is no indication we will be close to a playoff team next season. Assuming the following players are back, 2022-23 will be season 5 as Sabres for Dahlin, Mittelstadt and Thompson, season 4 for Olofsson, Asplund and Jokiharju and season 3 for Cozens and Bryson. Some of those players will be core pieces for this team and none have experienced anything but losing as Sabres. Indeed, as Sabres, these players have never been in an environment where they were surrounded by leaders, on or off ice, who even projected the idea that winning was an expected outcome.

I'm not advocating for a Tim Murray approach where we now expend lots of draft and prospect capital on acquiring veterans with the goal of shortening the rebuild. However, it seems flawed to expect that the next group of prospects (Krebs, Quinn, Peterka, Power, Johnson, Levi, etc) are going to be led to success by a group of players who not only have never experienced team success at the NHL level but have never experienced what it's like to be in an environment where team success was expected. At some point it becomes necessary to infuse the line-up with veterans who are still at least close to their primes and who know how to win. "When?", is question I guess. Or am I wrong on this?

I don't really know if it's a matter of "knowing how to win", vs just being capable of winning.

A lot of our youth is pretty overrated. It's not to say they will never be good enough for these roles, but people have been calling guys like Joker, Samuelsson, Cozens sure fire top (4/6) guys, and they just aren't there at this point, and I don't think its a guarantee they will be next year. Heck even Ryan Johnson gets the label.

I'm sure many will disagree, but I don't see Power stepping in and immediately being the all-around player we need. I'm sure we'll get glimpses of his skill but it's going to be a transition to the NHL for him. Krebs still has a ways to go, although I could see him rounding the corner fairly soon.

While it's an important step, a lot of Sabres fans are kidding themselves if they think just ditching Bjork, Eakin, and Hagg and replacing them with a few more young guys is going to make us good.

 

[Jim Bob]

Jokes aside, it would probably be the easiest path to starting on a contender.

It wasn't a joke.

Toronto hasn't been in the second round of the playoffs since before the 2004-05 lockout.

It has been 20 years since they were in the Conference Finals.

The Sabres have 4 playoff series wins since the last time Toronto has won a playoff series.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

It's an easy accusation to throw out, I've been accused of that. I have african american grand children, my best man at my wedding was african american, I was the best man at my Puerto Rican friend's wedding, my girlfriend is Filipina but because I'm conservative, love guns and personal freedom I'm a racist

...You can also have minority friends and familiy and still be racist -- it's actually extremely common. That defense has been rightly met by eyerolls for generations.

 

[Archie Lee]

I don't really know if it's a matter of "knowing how to win", vs just being capable of winning.

A lot of our youth is pretty overrated. It's not to say they will never be good enough for these roles, but people have been calling guys like Joker, Samuelsson, Cozens sure fire top (4/6) guys, and they just aren't there at this point, and I don't think its a guarantee they will be next year. Heck even Ryan Johnson gets the label.

I'm sure many will disagree, but I don't see Power stepping in and immediately being the all-around player we need. I'm sure we'll get glimpses of his skill but it's going to be a transition to the NHL for him. Krebs still has a ways to go, although I could see him rounding the corner fairly soon.

While it's an important step, a lot of Sabres fans are kidding themselves if they think just ditching Bjork, Eakin, and Hagg and replacing them with a few more young guys is going to make us good.

I agree, particularly with the last paragraph. Adding Power, Peterka and Quinn next year should improve our talent level but that will not automatically make us a better team. At least not in the short term.

 

[Djp]

I don't really know if it's a matter of "knowing how to win", vs just being capable of winning.

A lot of our youth is pretty overrated. It's not to say they will never be good enough for these roles, but people have been calling guys like Joker, Samuelsson, Cozens sure fire top (4/6) guys, and they just aren't there at this point, and I don't think its a guarantee they will be next year. Heck even Ryan Johnson gets the label.

I'm sure many will disagree, but I don't see Power stepping in and immediately being the all-around player we need. I'm sure we'll get glimpses of his skill but it's going to be a transition to the NHL for him. Krebs still has a ways to go, although I could see him rounding the corner fairly soon.

While it's an important step, a lot of Sabres fans are kidding themselves if they think just ditching Bjork, Eakin, and Hagg and replacing them with a few more young guys is going to make us good.

personally I don’t put Joki ir Samuelson in top 2. They could be fine in a top pair with right chemistry. I have thrm fitting in the bottom 4 role.

this year is Cozens first full season. I wasn’t expecting him to step in this year and be top 6.

Power is ready to step in and play. Not as a top D next year. In 23/24 … see what happens.

Peterka and Quinn need 30 nhl games under their belt. Both have done well in AHL. With them…the cap floor issue could affect them playing in the nhl next year. They should not be sitting as 13/14 F.

I agree, particularly with the last paragraph. Adding Power, Peterka and Quinn next year should improve our talent level but that will not automatically make us a better team. At least not in the short term.

the additions potentially next year could matter. They also have other young players growing.

 

[BFLO]

I don't really know if it's a matter of "knowing how to win", vs just being capable of winning.

A lot of our youth is pretty overrated. It's not to say they will never be good enough for these roles, but people have been calling guys like Joker, Samuelsson, Cozens sure fire top (4/6) guys, and they just aren't there at this point, and I don't think its a guarantee they will be next year. Heck even Ryan Johnson gets the label.

I'm sure many will disagree, but I don't see Power stepping in and immediately being the all-around player we need. I'm sure we'll get glimpses of his skill but it's going to be a transition to the NHL for him. Krebs still has a ways to go, although I could see him rounding the corner fairly soon.

While it's an important step, a lot of Sabres fans are kidding themselves if they think just ditching Bjork, Eakin, and Hagg and replacing them with a few more young guys is going to make us good.

Time is a flat circle. It feels like just yesterday when Risto/Zadorov were our guaranteed future top pair. Or Baily, Baptisie, Hudson Fasching were the wingers Eichel needed. Antipin, Guhle, Borgen, Pilut just needed a chance in the NHL and were going to save the defense and were no brainers for the top 4.

Looking back at the GMTM drafts is so depressing. 2014-2016 is a wasteland of pics that didn't pan out. The only player that out performed their draft pick was Olofosson. Asplund is the only other player to even make our current roster. Botterill's drafts actually look amazing in comparison. Although it's still too early to really pass judgement.

 

[Fjordsen]

What makes the debate over this even more irritating is that nobody has pointed out the fact that the reason we should avoid TDA is that he's an offense first defenseman which is exactly what we don't need.

I just said this

 

[Fjordsen]

Laine, Boeser, Fiala or some legit top 6 player in UFA is fine, but top 4 RDs should be a priority anyway, as should a goalie. Joki is currently at #4- #5 at best and I would even be willing to trade him if I knew we were going to have two new top 4 RDs. If Adams can get RDs without trading Joki, that's fine, but Joki should start playing in a limited role.

Minimum task for Adams:

Dahlin - xxxx
Power - Pysyk/Joki
Mule/Bryson - Pysyk/Joki

It would be better like this:

Dahlin - xxxx
Power - xxxx
Mule/Bryson - Pysyk/Joki

 

[Jim Bob]

Laine, Boeser, Fiala or some legit top 6 player in UFA is fine, but top 4 RDs should be a priority anyway, as should a goalie. Joki is currently at #4- #5 at best and I would even be willing to trade him if I knew we were going to have two new top 4 RDs. If Adams can get RDs without trading Joki, that's fine, but Joki should start playing in a limited role.

Minimum task for Adams:

Dahlin - xxxx
Power - Pysyk/Joki
Mule/Bryson - Pysyk/Joki

It would be better like this:

Dahlin - xxxx
Power - xxxx
Mule/Bryson - Pysyk/Joki

Adams HAS to make moves in goal.

He has 0 goalies under contract for next season.

He has the RFA rights to 1 goalie after this season (UPL).

He has the draft rights to 2 goalies (Levi & Portillo).

They have 5 goalies that are UFA after this season (Anderson, Tokarski, Subban, Dell, and Houser).

At a minimum, here is what Adams has to do in goal this off season:

- Re-sign UPL
- Sign one of Levi & Portillo
- Acquire a 1/1A NHL goalie
- Acquire an NHL/AHL veteran goalie
- Acquire an AHL/ECHL goalie (or re-sign Houser)

 

[Fjordsen]

Adams HAS to make moves in goal.

He has 0 goalies under contract for next season.

He has the RFA rights to 1 goalie after this season (UPL).

He has the draft rights to 2 goalies (Levi & Portillo).

They have 5 goalies that are UFA after this season (Anderson, Tokarski, Subban, Dell, and Houser).

At a minimum, here is what Adams has to do in goal this off season:

- Re-sign UPL
- Sign one of Levi & Portillo
- Acquire a 1/1A NHL goalie
- Acquire an NHL/AHL veteran goalie
- Acquire an AHL/ECHL goalie (or re-sign Houser)

I know, I said that the top 4 RDs and goalie are in priority. But finding goalie is cheaper and easier than good top 4 RD.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

New plan of the day:

[BUF/CHI]: Connor Murphy and Henrik Borgstrom for Ryan Johnson, Jacob Bryson, and 2023 2nd (VGK)
[BUF/VAN]: Brock Boeser for 2022 1st (VGK), 2022 3rd (BUF), Alexander Kisakov, and Anders Bjork
[BUF/CAR]: Ethan Bear for Victor Olofsson and Arttu Ruotsalainen

- Sign Braden Holtby (2 years x $3.5M)
- RFA Brock Boeser (6 years x $6.5M)
- RFA Ethan Bear (3 years x $3M)
- RFA Henrik Borgstrom (1 year x $1M)
- RFA Brett Murray (2 years x $1M)

Jeff Skinner - Tage Thompson - Alex Tuch
Peyton Krebs - Dylan Cozens - Brock Boeser
J-J Peterka - Casey Mittelstadt - Jack Quinn
Zemgus Girgensons - Rasmus Asplund - Kyle Okposo
x Henrik Borgstrom, Brett Murray

Rasmus Dahlin - Connor Murphy
Owen Power - Ethan Bear
Mattias Samuelsson - Henri Jokiharju
x Casey Fitzgerald

Braden Holtby / Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen

Total Cap Hit: $62,605,001

 

[Fjordsen]

New plan of the day:

[BUF/CHI]: Connor Murphy and Henrik Borgstrom for Ryan Johnson, Jacob Bryson, and 2023 2nd (VGK)
[BUF/VAN]: Brock Boeser for 2022 1st (VGK), 2022 3rd (BUF), Alexander Kisakov, and Anders Bjork
[BUF/CAR]: Ethan Bear for Victor Olofsson and Arttu Ruotsalainen

- Sign Braden Holtby (2 years x $3.5M)
- RFA Brock Boeser (6 years x $6.5M)
- RFA Henrik Borgstrom (1 year x $1M)
- RFA Brett Murray (2 years x $1M)

Jeff Skinner - Tage Thompson - Alex Tuch
Peyton Krebs - Dylan Cozens - Brock Boeser
J-J Peterka - Casey Mittelstadt - Jack Quinn
Zemgus Girgensons - Rasmus Asplund - Kyle Okposo
x Henrik Borgstrom, Brett Murray

Rasmus Dahlin - Connor Murphy
Owen Power - Ethan Bear
Mattias Samuelsson - Henri Jokiharju
x Casey Fitzgerald

Braden Holtby / Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen

Total Cap Hit: $62,605,001

Looks good, but I think Vancouver will be looking RD for Boeser, I think Jokiharju+ for Boeser would make sense, especially since you are trading for Murphy and Bear, we could also just re-sign Pysyk or someone else in UFA to play with Samuelsson.

 

[StrompTroller]

New plan of the day:

[BUF/CHI]: Connor Murphy and Henrik Borgstrom for Ryan Johnson, Jacob Bryson, and 2023 2nd (VGK)
[BUF/VAN]: Brock Boeser for 2022 1st (VGK), 2022 3rd (BUF), Alexander Kisakov, and Anders Bjork
[BUF/CAR]: Ethan Bear for Victor Olofsson and Arttu Ruotsalainen

- Sign Braden Holtby (2 years x $3.5M)
- RFA Brock Boeser (6 years x $6.5M)
- RFA Ethan Bear (3 years x $3M)
- RFA Henrik Borgstrom (1 year x $1M)
- RFA Brett Murray (2 years x $1M)

Jeff Skinner - Tage Thompson - Alex Tuch
Peyton Krebs - Dylan Cozens - Brock Boeser
J-J Peterka - Casey Mittelstadt - Jack Quinn
Zemgus Girgensons - Rasmus Asplund - Kyle Okposo
x Henrik Borgstrom, Brett Murray

Rasmus Dahlin - Connor Murphy
Owen Power - Ethan Bear
Mattias Samuelsson - Henri Jokiharju
x Casey Fitzgerald

Braden Holtby / Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen

Total Cap Hit: $62,605,001

Overpay
No immediate need for Boeser
Overpay

Don't mean that in a salty way I know reading a screen can come across different than real tones so no offense intended.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

Looks good, but I think Vancouver will be looking RD for Boeser, I think Jokiharju+ for Boeser would make sense, especially since you are trading for Murphy and Bear, we could also just re-sign Pysyk or someone else in UFA to play with Samuelsson.

I actually really like that idea.

 

[Fjordsen]

No immediate need for Boeser

Laine, Boeser and Fiala were named as an improvement in the top 6 for Buffalo, the priority of course is top 4 RDs and the goalie, but we also need legit top 6 forward.

 

[StrompTroller]

Laine, Boeser and Fiala were called was called as an improvement in the top 6 for Buffalo, the priority of course is top 4 RDs and the goalie, but we also need legit top 6 forward.

Boeser is essentially Ollofson minus 5 points over the course of a season...just keep him and not spend assets and overpay on the contract proposed...also we aren't gonna run Tage/Krebs/Cozens/Mitts centers 1 through 4. At least one will slide to wing maybe 2. They join tuch/skinner/quinn/peterka as top 6 wing depth. Rosen is coming eventually and we have a million picks to throw into the mix. Boeser alone seems like a luxury. At the cost of assets to get him while ditching Olly just seems pointless to me....

 

[Fjordsen]

Boeser is essentially Ollofson minus 5 points over the course of a season...just keep him and not spend assets and overpay on the contract proposed...also we aren't gonna run Tage/Krebs/Cozens/Mitts centers 1 through 4. At least one will slide to wing maybe 2. They join tuch/skinner/quinn/peterka as top 6 wing depth. Rosen is coming eventually and we have a million picks to throw into the mix. Boeser alone seems like a luxury. At the cost of assets to get him while ditching Olly just seems pointless to me....

I disagree, depends on the price. We need a legit top 6 forward who can score and influence attack. We have young centers, but they need help. Boeser has generally always put in good numbers and his metrics look good. I'm not saying that there must be a Boeser, but a player with experience is needed, and not just one youth. Quinn and Peterka aren't even in the league yet, they'll need help too, Rosen is light years away from the NHL, he's still very raw, I don't expect him to be in the NHL in the next three years.

 

[StrompTroller]

Laine, Boeser and Fiala were named as an improvement in the top 6 for Buffalo, the priority of course is top 4 RDs and the goalie, but we also need legit top 6 forward.

What we lack is a legit 1c talent. We have potentially 4 different 2c options which is great. We also have some potential draft picks to address that need. Say we luck into Wright or Bedard etc...granted thats a pipe dream. We have top 6 depth as is: Tuch/Cozens/Krebs/Mitts/tage/skinner/olly/peterka etc

we need:

about 3 goalies
2 rhd
a 1C (not happening and not necessarily the be all end all given our depth)
physical roles players/leaders and potential great 4c ala Larsson





then added winger depth that costs us assets and a 7 mill contract for a player who plays the same as younger skinner.

I'm just not seeing it man...

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

Boeser is essentially Ollofson minus 5 points over the course of a season...just keep him and not spend assets and overpay on the contract proposed...also we aren't gonna run Tage/Krebs/Cozens/Mitts centers 1 through 4. At least one will slide to wing maybe 2. They join tuch/skinner/quinn/peterka as top 6 wing depth. Rosen is coming eventually and we have a million picks to throw into the mix. Boeser alone seems like a luxury. At the cost of assets to get him while ditching Olly just seems pointless to me....

Boeser is not without his flaws but this is simply inaccurate.

 

[Fjordsen]

What we lack is a legit 1c talent. We have potentially 4 different 2c options which is great. We also have some potential draft picks to address that need. Say we luck into Wright or Bedard etc...granted thats a pipe dream. We have top 6 depth as is: Tuch/Cozens/Krebs/Mitts/tage/skinner/olly/peterka etc

we need:

about 3 goalies
2 rhd
a 1C (not happening and not necessarily the be all end all given our depth)
physical roles players/leaders and potential great 4c ala Larsson





then added winger depth that costs us assets and a 7 mill contract for a player who plays the same as younger skinner.

I'm just not seeing it man...

We will not get 1C, only draft. Boeser is not a Skinner, he is a much better defensive player than Jeff. I didn't say it should be a priority, not even second on the list, but I think we need a legit top 6 forward because we only have the first line and the youth who don't know how they will play and definitely won't always be stable. I also think that Quinn will be a great two-way player and his development could very well be closer to Mark Stone (style) than just a scorer.

 

[StrompTroller]

We will not get 1C, only draft. Boeser is not a Skinner, he is a much better defensive player than Jeff. I didn't say it should be a priority, not even second on the list, but I think we need a legit top 6 forward because we only have the first line and the youth who don't know how they will play and definitely won't always be stable. I also think that Quinn will be a great two-way player and his development could very well be closer to Mark Stone (style) than just a scorer.

I'm not against adding a top 6 vet player but Boeser of all people is not on my list (albeit ik you mentioned him because his alleged availability). If given the chance I'd sooner add Horvat than Boeser and make sure we added a leader type with definite defensive chops and some offensive flair. Thats just focusing on one team as a target though. My main grief is with Boeser. He's never gonna be the piece that puts us over the edge and sending assets for him while handing him a 7 mill contract makes no sense at all to me.

 

[TehDoak]

While I do not think that the current team deserves to be tarnished by past failures, I have recently experienced an "I've seen this before" sense of doom (I may be late to the party). There is no indication we will be close to a playoff team next season. Assuming the following players are back, 2022-23 will be season 5 as Sabres for Dahlin, Mittelstadt and Thompson, season 4 for Olofsson, Asplund and Jokiharju and season 3 for Cozens and Bryson. Some of those players will be core pieces for this team and none have experienced anything but losing as Sabres. Indeed, as Sabres, these players have never been in an environment where they were surrounded by leaders, on or off ice, who even projected the idea that winning was an expected outcome.

I'm not advocating for a Tim Murray approach where we now expend lots of draft and prospect capital on acquiring veterans with the goal of shortening the rebuild. However, it seems flawed to expect that the next group of prospects (Krebs, Quinn, Peterka, Power, Johnson, Levi, etc) are going to be led to success by a group of players who not only have never experienced team success at the NHL level but have never experienced what it's like to be in an environment where team success was expected. At some point it becomes necessary to infuse the line-up with veterans who are still at least close to their primes and who know how to win. "When?", is question I guess. Or am I wrong on this?

It's going to be about what the goal is for next year. There is a major opportunity here with the volume of contributors we have on ELC/Bridge deals. Playoffs is not a high goal. Half the league makes the playoffs. It's gotta be about

A) Identifying short term and long term needs
B) Managing cap and assets in a way that can address both while continuing to develop our young core.

What has been frustrating about this year is the cheapness (both in cash and assets) and making this year a development year and not really a progression year. It's going to make the jump to the playoffs a harder one because we will have to fill a variety of long term needs this summer since we didn't really address any last summer.

Short Term needs:

Goaltending. The hope is that one of Portillo or Levi are able to grab the starters reigns in 2-4 years.
Scoring: The hope is with our forward group, more than one will develop into a top line forward. However, as it stands, none of them are elite talents. The potential is there, but it'll be a few years out.

Long term needs:

RHD: This is also a short term need, but given how long it can take a d-man to develop, we need effective players in there now and we need to invest some draft capital in there
Defensive center: also a short term need as well. You might be able to coax this out of Krebs/Cozens eventually, but for now, need a two way long term center to mentor our young kids as well as help with faceoffs/matchups.

If you can address those 4 spaces this year without destroying long term cap and destroying the draft/prospect pipeline, you will be in a good space to contend for a playoff spot next year AND the years after. However, that is a pretty long wishlist for one offseason.