2025 WJC Discussion

[Styles]

Well that’s certainly a coherent and good faith argument. We’re not debating whether or not it would’ve been better to keep Hagel. We’re debating whether or not Moore turning into a Dave Bolland makes this pick a success.

Isolating Moore as the return for Hagel is also just objectively bad faith arguing. Pretty easy to convince yourself that you’re right if you ignore the fact that there’s a second first rounder in the deal huh?

And trading Hagel had absolutely nothing to do with “getting Bedard”. When that deal was made Hagel was a very good complimentary player riding a ridiculous shooting bender. No one in their right mind saw a guy that’d end up being good enough to play for Canada at a best on best there. Either way, now that he’s turned into that player, had you not dealt him you’d be faced with the reality of paying a winger 6.5 million dollars a year only to win nothing because you were rebuilding for his entire prime.

I don’t think Moore has anything close to the same game Bolland had from what I’ve seen but I guess I could be wrong? He doesn’t have the physical side Bolland had.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I don’t think Moore has anything close to the same game Bolland had from what I’ve seen but I guess I could be wrong? He doesn’t have the physical side Bolland had.

Bolland had way more offensive upside and way more edge. I've compared Moore to Cogliano from jump.

All wheels, all motor. All gas no brakes.

Talent wise? He's a fifteen fifteen guy. Bolland was much slower but he had sixty point potential. And so much more moxy.

 

[Clownish]

Bolland had way more offensive upside and way more edge. I've compared Moore to Cogliano from jump.

All wheels, all motor. All gas no brakes.

Talent wise? He's a fifteen fifteen guy. Bolland was much slower but he had sixty point potential. And so much more moxy.

Comparing him to Cogliano or Athanasiou is too much of a buzzkill for the prospect thread's circlejerk.

 

[HawksDub89]

Strongly disagree with this. If you can get a strong 3rd line contributor at 19 that's a huge win. I'm sure the Hawks were hoping for a 2nd line C, but would be thrilled with a good 3rd line C.

To me that was part of the attraction to Moore. Thought he could be a 60-70 point 2C, but had a nice floor as a 40-50 point two way 3C.

 

[clydesdale line]

Prospect Info: - All-Purpose Prospect Thread v16.0

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5612279/2024/07/16/nhl-prospects-ranking-celebrini-michkov/?source=emp_shared_article Wheeler's new top 100 4. Levshunov 44. Moore 59. Nazar 80. Rinzel 83. Reichel HM: Del Mastro Always have to take these things with a grain of salt (Wheeler in particular...

forums.hfboards.com

I remember me and @Hattrick Kane had a healthy discussion about WJC chances way back. So far Canada not off to a good start. Still early though. Never said USA will win it again but I still stand by my statement they are the favorites again.

 

[Cashman]

To me that was part of the attraction to Moore. Thought he could be a 60-70 point 2C, but had a nice floor as a 40-50 point two way 3C.

I don't like that you are wasting a 1st rd pick on a 3C. Seems like a waste.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Moore will either end up a Langkow or a Marchant

Be happy with either but hope he ends up Langkowesque

 

[ClydeLee]

Bolland now would be a 1st, he was taken 32.

 

[kmwtrucks]

I don't like that you are wasting a 1st rd pick on a 3C. Seems like a waste.

look at the first 25 or so picks. the 2 guys right after him SALE and Stramel are trending like they may never play in the NHL. a long career as a 3rd center on a championship level team at 20 is fine. home run? NO. kantersov and lardis look like home runs from there location. Gajan and misiak look like reaches!! Ie maybe never play games. im still fine with the pick the only guy behind his that looks like a better NHL player is Gabe P but he is a wing with no size and AVG skating for his size. Bedard has 20 lbs on gabe and gets beat up pretty bad.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

That is not a huge win at all. I can find a decent 3rd line center in every free agency.

Would you be happy paying JT Compher $28M over 5 years? Which 3C UFA contract would you be happy with from last year.

Roughly 1/3 of late 1st rounders bust, and a bunch of others just hang on and don't really contribute. Getting a top9 F or top4D is a huge win IMO.

 

[MTU34]

I don’t think Moore has anything close to the same game Bolland had from what I’ve seen but I guess I could be wrong? He doesn’t have the physical side Bolland had.

I more so meant a Bolland caliber player than a stylistic comp. He certainly doesn’t have Bolland’s edge

 

[clydesdale line]

Bolland was an incredibly talented player. But pre back surgery Bolland and post back surgery Bolland were 2 completely different players. Moore certainly doesn't have Bolland's hands, IQ or grit but Bolland doesn't have Moore's elite skating and motor either. I don't think they're comparable players.

 

[TheFridge]

Bolland was an incredibly talented player. But pre back surgery Bolland and post back surgery Bolland were 2 completely different players. Moore certainly doesn't have Bolland's hands, IQ or grit but Bolland doesn't have Moore's elite skating and motor either. I don't think they're comparable players.

Bolland's hands weren't anything special either. He relied on his hockey sense, bite and tenacity to be effective.

 

[Putt Pirate]

Shader with a broken collarbone so done for the tournament.

 

[LavalPhantom]

Bolland's hands weren't anything special either. He relied on his hockey sense, bite and tenacity to be effective.

 

[TheFridge]

Was a nice goal. Was it supposed to prove that his hands were special? A pull-back drag around a defender? It's not like I'm shitting on Bolland. If you were ranking his skills, his hands and skating would be graded as probably NHL average. He wasn't out there regularly dangling guys, manipulating players or overly-handling the puck.

 

[belfour30]

When I listen to people who have watched Moore play the first person that pops into my mind is Athanasiou.

Is that unfair or accurate?

 

[x Tame Impala]

Bolland didn’t have enough skill on offense to be our 2C. It was tried and didn’t work

 

[Crow]

When I listen to people who have watched Moore play the first person that pops into my mind is Athanasiou.

Is that unfair or accurate?

I think Moore provides a lot more (ugh pun) defensively.

 

[swerdnase]

Bolland's hands weren't anything special either. He relied on his hockey sense, bite and tenacity to be effective.

I beg to differ ... errr nevermind.

 

[ello]

When I listen to people who have watched Moore play the first person that pops into my mind is Athanasiou.

Is that unfair or accurate?

Moore has a bit more of a motor imo but yea same vein of player. Hopefully he can weaponize his speed defensively in a way that AA hasnt been able to but low IQ guys really dont tend to have a consistent career

 

[Putt Pirate]

I am giving Moore some slack because he has been jerked around line wise in MN most of his time there. Might be best to get him out of there and to Rockford to develop.

 

[Larmer83]

Steve Miller has been associate head coach at Minnesota for three years.

2024 WJC | Steve Miller

teamusa.usahockey.com

Steve Miller will serve on his seventh U.S. National Junior Team in 2025. He helped the United States earn gold in 2017, 2021, and 2024, silver in 2019, and bronze in 2018.
Here's a quote from him on Moore's play at Minny:

Catching up with Blackhawks prospects Sam Rinzel and Oliver Moore

Highlights, interviews and more from Minnesota’s games at Notre Dame last weekend

www.secondcityhockey.com

"His energy, his compete level, his skating is obviously elite. It’s just a matter of sometimes they go in and sometimes they don’t. He’s had great chances. When he’s around the net, good things happen. Sometimes it’s hard to get to the net, but it’s not from a lack of effort or him trying to be fancy — none of that stuff. He plays a 200-foot game, he’s a great F1, he’s been great defensively for us. Whether he’s produced or not, nothing’s wavered with his work ethic away from the puck and how he wants to get better every day as a player".

 

[TLEH]

Strongly disagree with this. If you can get a strong 3rd line contributor at 19 that's a huge win. I'm sure the Hawks were hoping for a 2nd line C, but would be thrilled with a good 3rd line C.

They weren’t trying to take him at 19. They were trying to take him at like 10-11, which tells you what they thought.

 

[x Tame Impala]

They weren’t trying to take him at 19. They were trying to take him at like 10-11, which tells you what they thought.

Guys bust at the 10ish pick range all the time. Going back to an earlier post of yours, I don’t see why it makes it a bad pick or reach.

Trust our scouting department until that give us reason to doubt them.