Blue Jays GDT: 2024 v6 | Fri, Sept 13 | vs StL | 7pm ET/4pm PT | TBA vs TBA Ohtanis Makes History

[MK78]

I dunno about Springer. This is the 2nd year that he's been fully healthy, and he's been bad offensively, this year worse than previous.

I just dont know if he can be league average again. I think if he keeps playing good RF defense, which he has, i'm fine with it just as long as he's down the lineup.

 

[aingefan]

One reason to be optimistic: The Tigers only had one player with an OPS over .735 this season (*minimum 90 games played), and they are in the playoffs. Carpenter was good for them but only played half the season.

K.C. only had four players with an OPS of at least .743, and their second, third, and fourth best hitters had OPSs of .743, .760, and .786.

This shows that offense is down league-wide, and just landing one big bat to pair with Vlad could help the Jays get back to the playoffs quickly.

We also have some big bounce-back candidates in Bichette, Springer, Kirk, etc., and Horwitz looks promising, all being .750 OPS+ candidates.

League average OPS was ~700.
It’s not unreasonable to think that the Jays will get that from 7 positions if they add a bat, and possible they field a full lineup over that mark.

 

[dredeye]

Mattingly has to be next.

He really can’t skirt being removed from this team. I don’t know how they could justify him remaining with the team.

 

[dredeye]

Firing a guy two years too late isn't really any action and the fact that Shapiro and Atkins are doing the season ending presser means both are getting out unscathed.

Toronto sports, man, they really hate making the changes that are necessary in a front office, don't they?

Last year of Shapiro contract and two left on Atkins. They will let them walk this team into potential ruin. Do we want desperate gm and president in charge when you have Bo, Vlad, Gausman and Basset on the final year of their deals? They all walk together and we are left with potentially a couple comp picks. It’s setting up to look real ugly after this season. I’d prefer at least a new gm in place to start planning for it

I dunno about Springer. This is the 2nd year that he's been fully healthy, and he's been bad offensively, this year worse than previous.

I just dont know if he can be league average again. I think if he keeps playing good RF defense, which he has, i'm fine with it just as long as he's down the lineup.

You need to get use to Springer being an anchor at this point.

 

[Nineteen67]

How in the actual f*** can Rogers justify bringing Shapiro and Atkins back?

I guess it’s because they have a year left on their contract? Maybe they get lucky and Shapiro moves on.

 

[canucksfan]

How in the actual f*** can Rogers justify bringing Shapiro and Atkins back?

Prior to this shitty season, the team has made the playoffs 3 out of 4 years. The other year they missed it by one game. Shapiro has been successful with the Dunedin complex and the renovations.

I can understand keeping Shapiro but I think Atkins should be gone. The team has got worse since 2022.

 

[dredeye]

Prior to this shitty season, the team has made the playoffs 3 out of 4 years. The other year they missed it by one game. Shapiro has been successful with the Dunedin complex and the renovations.

I can understand keeping Shapiro but I think Atkins should be gone. The team has got worse since 2022.

How many post season games did we win?

 

[canucksfan]

How many post season games did we win?

Zero. Baseball playoffs are weird. Last year, two wild-card teams went to the World Series. Look at the Orioles. Despite their talent, they haven't won yet.

I still think Atkins needs to go; however, I get why Shapiro is still here. The other problem is who is going to replace him. There is always a chance they bring in someone worse.

 

[dredeye]

Zero. Baseball playoffs are weird. Last year, two wild-card teams went to the World Series. Look at the Orioles. Despite their talent, they haven't won yet.

I still think Atkins needs to go; however, I get why Shapiro is still here. The other problem is who is going to replace him. There is always a chance they bring in someone worse.

Of course there’s a chance they bring in Simone worse. That can never be a reason to sit on your hands though. My problem is Shapiro is he’s given Atkins way longer a leash than he should have. If he’s also meddling with baseball decisions far below his role that’s a huge problem for me. If he’s not he’s fine. Atkins needs to go.

 

[henryasteroidlionnet]

Zero. Baseball playoffs are weird. Last year, two wild-card teams went to the World Series. Look at the Orioles. Despite their talent, they haven't won yet.

I still think Atkins needs to go; however, I get why Shapiro is still here. The other problem is who is going to replace him. There is always a chance they bring in someone worse.

James Click.

 

[henryasteroidlionnet]

Of course there’s a chance they bring in Simone worse. That can never be a reason to sit on your hands though. My problem is Shapiro is he’s given Atkins way longer a leash than he should have. If he’s also meddling with baseball decisions far below his role that’s a huge problem for me. If he’s not he’s fine. Atkins needs to go.

Atkins and Shapiro are connected to the hip. Of course, he's meddling with baseball decisions. He's the president and CEO. You think Atkins is being given complete autonomy to do what he wants?

 

[Suntouchable13]

That was insane by Vernon Wells in 2003. 16 more hits than Vladdy. 199 is a lot, but to have 215 is incredible. Not sure if that team record will be broken any time soon.

 

[dredeye]

Atkins and Shapiro are connected to the hip. Of course, he's meddling with baseball decisions. He's the president and CEO. You think Atkins is being given complete autonomy to do what he wants?

I don’t think he’s given complete autonomy and I don’t mind if he isn’t. I’ve heard rumours at least that the onfield decisions are traced all the way back to him. That I’d have a huge problem with. Like pulling your starter who’s pitching great I believe it was in the third inning of a post season game.

 

[canucksfan]

James Click.

I've read a few times that he is fine with his current position and is waiting for a president's job.

I believe it was Scott Mitchell who said if fans want drastic changes they need to hire someone outside of the organization.

 

[trellaine201]

Ross Atkins Will Return As Blue Jays' General Manager In 2025

Blue Jays team president Mark Shapiro is currently meeting with the media on the heels of a season he described …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

Brutal! But no surprise.

 

[Puckstuff]

I'm not surprised they're brining back Atkins... I just hope this is the last year of this if we have another bad offseason.

 

[DuklaNation]

That was insane by Vernon Wells in 2003. 16 more hits than Vladdy. 199 is a lot, but to have 215 is incredible. Not sure if that team record will be broken any time soon.

To beat that record, the rest of the lineup needs to be better. 2003 was a good offensive team.

 

[CincoHolio]

9 years. I can't personally watch this team with this management group at the helm. It turns my stomach. I can't express how much I despise E.Rogers as the owner of all of my favorite teams. At least the Raps and Leafs have some semblance of competent managment. When Larry T finally goes, these teams are doomed!

 

[Suntouchable13]

To beat that record, the rest of the lineup needs to be better. 2003 was a good offensive team.

You're right. The difference was that Vernon Wells wasn't the focal point of the lineup, Delgado was. Pitchers went after Vernon more knowing Carlos Delgado was right behind him.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

9 years. I can't personally watch this team with this management group at the helm.

Shatkins = running it back.

sad times.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Very disappointing, but not the least bit surprising.

 

[Discoverer]

I dunno about Springer. This is the 2nd year that he's been fully healthy, and he's been bad offensively, this year worse than previous.

I just dont know if he can be league average again. I think if he keeps playing good RF defense, which he has, i'm fine with it just as long as he's down the lineup.

Yeah, it made sense to expect a bounceback season from Springer last year since it could have just been an outlier, but now we're talking about a 35-year-old coming off back-to-back years of decline. I think it's most likely that this is who he is now.

Kirk has had back-to-back underwhelming offensive seasons, but he's 25 and still has room for improvement, and he provides elite defense at an important position when he's not hitting.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Yeah, it made sense to expect a bounceback season from Springer last year since it could have just been an outlier, but now we're talking about a 35-year-old coming off back-to-back years of decline. I think it's most likely that this is who he is now.

Kirk has had back-to-back underwhelming offensive seasons, but he's 25 and still has room for improvement, and he provides elite defense at an important position when he's not hitting.

But he ended the season hitting like we know he is capable of. Wanna see more of that next year.

 

[Puckstuff]

Yeah, it made sense to expect a bounceback season from Springer last year since it could have just been an outlier, but now we're talking about a 35-year-old coming off back-to-back years of decline. I think it's most likely that this is who he is now.

Kirk has had back-to-back underwhelming offensive seasons, but he's 25 and still has room for improvement, and he provides elite defense at an important position when he's not hitting.

Here’s Springer's wRC+ by batting order in 2024:

• 1st: 85
• 4th: 8
• 5th: 142
• 6th: 62
• 7th: 306
• 8th: 370
• 9th: 195

He clearly crushed the ball when hitting lower in the lineup. While these stats might not mean much—and they probably don't—it's worth noting that a player batting first can have over 97 more at-bats per 600 plate appearances compared to someone batting eighth.

For an older player who plays an aggressive game, saving him 97 at-bats over the course of one year by batting him lower in the lineup, i.e., 8th instead of 1st, could help him remain a little more "fresh" throughout the season. I really hope they do the smart thing and bat him 6th-9th next season, rather than leadoff.

 

[Discoverer]

Here’s Springer's wRC+ by batting order in 2024:

• 1st: 85
• 4th: 8
• 5th: 142
• 6th: 62
• 7th: 306
• 8th: 370
• 9th: 195

He clearly crushed the ball when hitting lower in the lineup. While these stats might not mean much—and they probably don't—it's worth noting that a player batting first can have over 97 more at-bats per 600 plate appearances compared to someone batting eighth.

View attachment 911718

For an older player who plays an aggressive game, saving him 97 at-bats over the course of one year by batting him lower in the lineup, i.e., 8th instead of 1st, could help him remain a little more "fresh" throughout the season. I really hope they do the smart thing and bat him 6th-9th next season, rather than leadoff.

Yeah, the samples outside of the leadoff spot are way too small to draw any kind of conclusions from, but I agree with the premise. Assuming he's still around in March, he should be essentially a fourth OF who hits in the bottom half of the lineup when he's in and does a bit of situational pinch-hitting and pinch-running and comes in as a defensive replacement in the corner depending who the starters are. They can't head into next year with him in a key role.