Blue Jays GDT: 2024 v4 |Mon, Jun 17 | vs BOS | 7pm ET/4pm PT | Pivetta vs Kikuchi

[Fantomas]

I don't get this team's direction. They're not a contender; they don't have good futures in the pipeline.

Everyone should be fired.

 

[MS]

When they brought Atkins back, I thought there would be more changes made than actually happened. Basically, the same coaches when the hitting coaches should have been changed. A very similar team with worse bats.

Schneider hasn't been good this year. Weird lineup orders and some questionable choices in the bullpen. However, he doesn't have much to work with. Batting Jansen for a long period of time at the bottom of the lineup was puzzling.

The end of last season was so, so bad. What happened in the elimination game just totally undermined the credibility of the management team and destroyed any faith anyone had in them. The only way to keep their jobs and move forward was if *massive* changes were made and that didn't happen.

The thing with MLB managers is that there are literally dozens of 50/50 type decisions that can be evaluated in every single game and when you're losing it's so easy for armchair fans to start picking those apart even though we don't have full information (I got really angry about one lineup earlier this year ... and then learned a bunch of players were sick). And as fans we're managing numbers and not people. There have been some iffy things this year but nothing like the Montoyo insanity of 2021-22.

You'd also have to look long and hard to find a manager who wouldn't hit a George Springer high in the lineup for a very long time to try and let them play themselves out of their slump. There's a huge disconnect between what fans want and how real life actually works. Jose Abreu never left a prime lineup spot for Houston last year despite being a total dud.

To me, right now the overwhelming narrative is a team and fanbase that have totally lost faith in the process coming from upper management. The GM has to go. And then the decision on Schneider should be made by a new GM.

 

[saska sault]

Imagine having Vlad and Bo at 20 years old and the ability to be a top 3 or 5 payroll... I remember the sense of promise around the team.

From Charlie to now Schneider, both massively pedestrian. In general a lack of emotion and not much shown in the sense of being a guiding light for the team. Not sure why they don't at least let Mattingly step up, you have him in house.

I still think there is a way forward with Vlad, Bo, Varsho, Jansen and some of our pitching staff but it looks like the moves that need to be made.. may be too pricey now that Rogers spent this much on the team and on the SKYDOME. With how well the fans show up for this team, they deserve to have ownership step up and make some bold moves here and give them a chance , even if small. If you have Gausman, Bassit and Berrios you have a chance if you can figure out the bullpen and how to start scoring some runs to support those guys.

 

[Woodman19]

I haven't even been watching games this year and I watched the 90's and 2000's teams religiously.

 

[LaP]

You know it's bad when Ben Nicholson Smith is posting this.

The offense is also on of the worse. In term of run scored the Jays are 24th. In term of earned runs allowed the Jays are 21st. They are both bad but the offense is still worse. But yeah time to clean the house.

 

[DFF]

Bad from top to bottom

Shock that they have not fired anyone yet

 

[647Hockey]

Jays have bad hitting and pitching. Both in the bottom 10 of the league.

Also highly inconsistent. Some games bats do well, but pitching sucks. And vice versa. Today was one of those games. Then tomorrow, Jays pitchers might let in 2 runs. But the bats only score 1.

Schneider has no clue how to set up a batting order either.

 

[Bjindaho]

Jays have bad hitting and pitching. Both in the bottom 10 of the league.

Also highly inconsistent. Some games bats do well, but pitching sucks. And vice versa. Today was one of those games. Then tomorrow, Jays pitchers might let in 2 runs. But the bats only score 1.

Schneider has no clue how to set up a batting order either.

This is back to back games where the game has been on the line with Vladdy in the on deck circle and the lineup spot he should be in at bat.

 

[DuklaNation]

Its going to be a slow burn until Shatkins is removed.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Bad from top to bottom

Shock that they have not fired anyone yet

Shapiro did good work with the renovations, or so I’m told, so Rogers isn’t firing him. Atkins is Shapiro’s boy and unless he’s forced to he’s not firing him. Schneider is a lapdog with no real say in anything as evidenced by this franchises garbage strategy in the last two WC series, so why would they fire a useful puppet?

What a complete waste. Eerily similar to the Leafs only Matthews, Nylander, and Marner continue to dominate (in the regular season) while the Jays have ruined Vlad and Bo.

 

[Ciao]

Fire Atkins and go from there.

If Shapiro won't do that, then fire him too.

Put James Click in as the interim GM until the management team is settled.

 

[Amadeus]

Fire Atkins and go from there.

If Shapiro won't do that, then fire him too.

Put James Click in as the interim GM until the management team is settled.

Jeff Luhnow is available as well.

 

[canucksfan]

The end of last season was so, so bad. What happened in the elimination game just totally undermined the credibility of the management team and destroyed any faith anyone had in them. The only way to keep their jobs and move forward was if *massive* changes were made and that didn't happen.

The thing with MLB managers is that there are literally dozens of 50/50 type decisions that can be evaluated in every single game and when you're losing it's so easy for armchair fans to start picking those apart even though we don't have full information (I got really angry about one lineup earlier this year ... and then learned a bunch of players were sick). And as fans we're managing numbers and not people. There have been some iffy things this year but nothing like the Montoyo insanity of 2021-22.

You'd also have to look long and hard to find a manager who wouldn't hit a George Springer high in the lineup for a very long time to try and let them play themselves out of their slump. There's a huge disconnect between what fans want and how real life actually works. Jose Abreu never left a prime lineup spot for Houston last year despite being a total dud.

To me, right now the overwhelming narrative is a team and fanbase that have totally lost faith in the process coming from upper management. The GM has to go. And then the decision on Schneider should be made by a new GM.

Definitely agree with the last point and Schneider hasn't done much for a new GM to keep him. Although, most GMs like to hire their own guys anyways.

 

[canucksfan]

Imagine having Vlad and Bo at 20 years old and the ability to be a top 3 or 5 payroll... I remember the sense of promise around the team.

From Charlie to now Schneider, both massively pedestrian. In general a lack of emotion and not much shown in the sense of being a guiding light for the team. Not sure why they don't at least let Mattingly step up, you have him in house.

I still think there is a way forward with Vlad, Bo, Varsho, Jansen and some of our pitching staff but it looks like the moves that need to be made.. may be too pricey now that Rogers spent this much on the team and on the SKYDOME. With how well the fans show up for this team, they deserve to have ownership step up and make some bold moves here and give them a chance , even if small. If you have Gausman, Bassit and Berrios you have a chance if you can figure out the bullpen and how to start scoring some runs to support those guys.

Mattingly is part of the problem. He doesn't have a good track record as a manager or hitting coach.

I have said this quite a few times but moves needed to be made in the offseason. Now, cleaning house is the logical option. Let the new GM who stays and who goes. Unfortunately, a retool/rebuild looks like a decent option. Jansen is FA and Bo and Vladdy next offseason.

 

[MK78]

Man, what a disappointing loss.. Clawed back from so many runs down to have a lead, then Garcia picks the worst time of the season to shit the bed, and Romano follows suit.

 

[fancy lad]

It’s so strange. No one saw this coming. Especially after the offseason we had.

 

[Hellcat]

I was shocked to see that the entire OF is batting below .204 ....

Rk	Pos	Name	AB	H	BA
4	RF	George Springer	176	33	0.188
6	LF	Daulton Varsho	159	33	0.208
9	CF	Kevin Kiermaier	93	21	0.226
			428	87	0.203

DH's are batting below .215

Rk	Pos	Name	AB	H	BA
3	DH	Daniel Vogelbach	45	8	0.178
8	DH	Justin Turner	151	34	0.225
			196	42	0.214

.... might be time to admit that their hitting coach needs to go.

 

[Hellcat]

It’s so strange. No one saw this coming. Especially after the offseason we had.

I think a lot of people on this forum called BS when Ross said that they would improve from internal improvement. This is not surprising at all, what is surprising is the lack of action to improve this team.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I think a lot of people on this forum called BS when Ross said that they would improve from internal improvement. This is not surprising at all, what is surprising is the lack of action to improve this team.

It seems like Ohtani was their only hope, once he wasn’t an option, they didn’t know what to do

 

[dredeye]

This has to be the point where people get fired, right?

There’s nothing left to spin. I feel like they are going to wait out the end of the Pirates series then something has to be done. I can’t see them firing Atkins mid season but I feel like him and Schneider need to be removed immediately.

I think a lot of people on this forum called BS when Ross said that they would improve from internal improvement. This is not surprising at all, what is surprising is the lack of action to improve this team.

Hard to get better from inside when you don’t play the internal options. Vogelbach still on this team is a prime example of that.

 

[dredeye]

I am hoping they don't give Atkins another manager. He doubled down on the coaching and the team and it has failed significantly.

He’s maxed out his manager hires. Got more than you’d usually get already with manager timing. He and Schneider need to go at the same time

 

[dredeye]

Imagine having Vlad and Bo at 20 years old and the ability to be a top 3 or 5 payroll... I remember the sense of promise around the team.

From Charlie to now Schneider, both massively pedestrian. In general a lack of emotion and not much shown in the sense of being a guiding light for the team. Not sure why they don't at least let Mattingly step up, you have him in house.

I still think there is a way forward with Vlad, Bo, Varsho, Jansen and some of our pitching staff but it looks like the moves that need to be made.. may be too pricey now that Rogers spent this much on the team and on the SKYDOME. With how well the fans show up for this team, they deserve to have ownership step up and make some bold moves here and give them a chance , even if small. If you have Gausman, Bassit and Berrios you have a chance if you can figure out the bullpen and how to start scoring some runs to support those guys.

Jansen is a free agent at years end. I think he’ll be gone though.

 

[MK78]

From Charlie to now Schneider, both massively pedestrian.

I think the bigger issue was, both were hired with zero MLB managerial experience.

I think it was clear with Charlie, he was way over his head.

When Schneider took over mid season for Charlie, it seemed to spark the team but next season you could really see his flaws and the playoff debacle was inexcusable. This season is just a writeoff.

 

[dredeye]

Man, what a disappointing loss.. Clawed back from so many runs down to have a lead, then Garcia picks the worst time of the season to shit the bed, and Romano follows suit.

Instead of finding ways to win this team finds ways to lose. It’s crazy

 

[Puckstuff]

I was shocked to see that the entire OF is batting below .204 ....

Rk	Pos	Name	AB	H	BA
4	RF	George Springer	176	33	0.188
6	LF	Daulton Varsho	159	33	0.208
9	CF	Kevin Kiermaier	93	21	0.226
			428	87	0.203

DH's are batting below .215

Rk	Pos	Name	AB	H	BA
3	DH	Daniel Vogelbach	45	8	0.178
8	DH	Justin Turner	151	34	0.225
			196	42	0.214

.... might be time to admit that their hitting coach needs to go.

The Kiermaier signing was idiotic. We needed to move Varsho to CF and bring in a good hitting LF. After we missed on Ohtani, we needed Soto and missed out to the Yankees.

Kiermaier: 9 runs created
Soto: 49 runs created

The Yankees paid a huge price but we did have Manoah, Tiedemann and Martinez to move in trade.

Also If they sign a better DH then Turner, we are also in a much better position.

I'm still not sold we need a full rebuild because I think we have a lot of good pieces. What we lack is a good DH and a middle of the order bat.

1. Schneider
2. Guerrero
3. ------
4 -------
5. Jansen
6. Bichette
7. Varsho
8. Springer
9. IKF