Blue Jays Discussion: 2024 Season (better title pending or maybe not ... )

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Discoverer

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
11,195
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The fact that Biggio can be looked at as a relative success story for this regime...

To simplify, where would you rank this regime as far as drafting/development, top/middle/bottom 10? Can you think of 10 teams that have done worse over the past decade?
I haven't taken enough of a look at what other teams drafting has looked like in that stretch to have that detailed of an opinion on it. I took a quick look at a few teams that I think people tend to think highly of in terms of drafting developing (specifically the Rays, Yankees, and Dodgers) and they don't look any better.

The Rays have drafted two players in that span with a higher bWAR than Biggio (Lowe and McLanahan).
The Dodgers have Smith and Gonsolin.
The Yankees have no one.

Who else is viewed as a top draft/develop team around the league? Atlanta has Michael Harris (and I'll throw in Strider too, since he's obviously an elite pitcher).

I picked a few other teams at random:

The Twins have none.
The Phillies have none.
The Royals have Singer and Witt.
The Brewers have Burnes.
The D-Backs have Varsho (and I'll give them Carroll based on last year).
The Astros have Pena.

So... I don't know. Biggio would be a "relative success story" on literally every team in the league and the best player drafted and developed by a lot of teams. No one has more than a couple impact players in that span.

I think you're trying to compare the Jays to a benchmark that doesn't exist.
 

Eyedea

The Legend Continues
Jan 29, 2012
27,773
3,631
Toronto, Ontario
The current Jays management has been in charge for what, 8-9 years? What players have they drafted/developed over that time that went on to make an impact with this team, other than Bo and Manoah for 1 season?

Do you think its more likely that all the publications that have us somewhere around the bottom are wrong, or that a homer would be wrong?

It’s all relative. You might think they’ve done a poor job, but how does it compare to the other orgs? Do you think the Yanks have done a better job over that same timespan?
 

phillipmike

Registered User
Oct 27, 2009
12,692
8,581

The crappy part is unless there is someone that falls out that is unsuspected, the best trade deadline bats are maybe Brent Rooker and JD Martinez and there is no guarantee Rooker is moved.

Of course you play it out until the deadline but need the bats to continue to improve to make the playoffs. Bo needs to become Bo again and Springer and Kirk need to be at least average.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
55,123
89,638
Vancouver, BC
The fact that Biggio can be looked at as a relative success story for this regime...

To simplify, where would you rank this regime as far as drafting/development, top/middle/bottom 10? Can you think of 10 teams that have done worse over the past decade?

Biggio is an unqualified success for this regime. As was already mentioned, he’s the 13th best player from his draft in terms of WAR. He was a 5th rounder but he’d be the 3rd best of 41 players taken in the first round. If you’re setting your standard for average drafting and thinking that the average team has all kinds of Cavan Biggios floating around on their draft resumes in addition to a pile of impact players … you aren’t really starting from an accurate place.

We aren’t on the level of Houston/Atlanta/LA but in terms of position players are in the tier right behind that, probably somewhere 5-10th in MLB since 2016. In terms of pitchers, it’s bottom-10 and maybe bottom-5. Overall pretty average.

I'll give you Moreno, but If we're giving Vlad to this regime, then he probably should be going in the negative column, as he didn't develop nearly as well as we'd expected. Pretty sure we expected more than a 2.5fWar player out of Vlad, right?

Guerrero was developed to finish 2nd in MVP voting at age 22. The weirdness that has happened with the team’s hitting and hitting philosophy at the MLB level over the past couple years is obviously a problem that needs fixing but to me it falls outside of a ‘drafting/development’ scope.
 

Eyedea

The Legend Continues
Jan 29, 2012
27,773
3,631
Toronto, Ontario
The crappy part is unless there is someone that falls out that is unsuspected, the best trade deadline bats are maybe Brent Rooker and JD Martinez and there is no guarantee Rooker is moved.

Of course you play it out until the deadline but need the bats to continue to improve to make the playoffs. Bo needs to become Bo again and Springer and Kirk need to be at least average.

Pete Alonso? He effectively cuts Turner+Vogelbach out of the equation and could open up another bench spot.
 

Suntouchable13

Registered User
Dec 20, 2003
44,204
20,220
Toronto, ON
Babe is suddenly OPSing in the .730s now. His power has vanished. Not sure what the coaching staff is teaching these guys. The power has been totally zapped.
 

Discoverer

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
11,195
6,548
Babe is suddenly OPSing in the .730s now. His power has vanished. Not sure what the coaching staff is teaching these guys. The power has been totally zapped.
He's really fallen off since moving into the leadoff spot. I would like to see them move him back down to the middle of the lineup with the Horwitz/Clement platoon hitting leadoff.
 

Suntouchable13

Registered User
Dec 20, 2003
44,204
20,220
Toronto, ON
He's really fallen off since moving into the leadoff spot. I would like to see them move him back down to the middle of the lineup with the Horwitz/Clement platoon hitting leadoff.

I enjoy watching him hit when he is really hot, he is fun to watch. Let’s hope he can get hot here soon.
 

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