fancy lad
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Imagine being biggio and being told by john schneider that you’re not good enough at your job.
Blue Jays Discussion: 2024 Season - Complete without a great title in keeping with the performance
- Thread starter The Nemesis
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Scotianhab
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Dr.Funk
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Dr.Funk
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trellaine201
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Dr.Funk
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Dr.Funk
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The Jays didn't call up Horwitz to spark the offense. They called him up to showcase him, and a guy who hits in the MLB is worth a couple tiers more than a AAA guy who hits. Between Vladdy being a likely resign, 1B being easy to find, and at least two guys behind him having big power, there simply isn't much reason to keep an all average, no power, fringey 1B who can kind sorta play decent 2B (which I'm TOTALLY SURE isn't some kind of marketing tactic, he he), and is 26 years old and running out of control. Same for Lukes who is 29 and just flat out deserves to be traded so he can have a chance to earn major league dollars. He only has like a couple years of prime outfielder years left.
And with the news of Manoah out for the season and Kikuchi walking next year, and their starting pitching depth being reduced to nothing in a span of a couple months, they need starting pitching depth NOW. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what kind of reasonable starting pitching depth you can get with a AAA no-power 1B, but I know teams like the Athletics, with blah long term prospects for 1B, have a few interesting young bullpen guys that can possibly be converted into starters, or at least make it easier to convert existing relievers into starters. The Jays will probably be looking for something along those lines: current relievers with starting experience.
Personally, I'd like to give him a chance, but the Jays need power and would rather give Vogelbach a shot (which hasn't been the worst idea so far), and we've seen a bunch of high average guys prove to be middling hitters at the MLB level. Even Bichette has down spells. Kind of hard to feel lucky on yet another high average guy that lacks power or stellar glovework.
And with the news of Manoah out for the season and Kikuchi walking next year, and their starting pitching depth being reduced to nothing in a span of a couple months, they need starting pitching depth NOW. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what kind of reasonable starting pitching depth you can get with a AAA no-power 1B, but I know teams like the Athletics, with blah long term prospects for 1B, have a few interesting young bullpen guys that can possibly be converted into starters, or at least make it easier to convert existing relievers into starters. The Jays will probably be looking for something along those lines: current relievers with starting experience.
Personally, I'd like to give him a chance, but the Jays need power and would rather give Vogelbach a shot (which hasn't been the worst idea so far), and we've seen a bunch of high average guys prove to be middling hitters at the MLB level. Even Bichette has down spells. Kind of hard to feel lucky on yet another high average guy that lacks power or stellar glovework.
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Eyedea
The Legend Continues
Horwitz has been getting spot starts at 2B/LF for years now. He’s not very tall so I think it’s more so been a way to find him a position to field. Kinda like Josh Naylor spending time in the corner OFs to get Bobby Bradley in at 1B.
I also don’t see why he can’t be a spark plug for the offence. He’s the 5th highest projected bat on the team based on RoS wRC+ and his ability to get on base can be a catalyst in front of Vladdy/Bo. If anything I’d maybe bat him leadoff vs righties with Vladdy right behind him and get Babe’s power in after them.
I also don’t see why he can’t be a spark plug for the offence. He’s the 5th highest projected bat on the team based on RoS wRC+ and his ability to get on base can be a catalyst in front of Vladdy/Bo. If anything I’d maybe bat him leadoff vs righties with Vladdy right behind him and get Babe’s power in after them.
Suntouchable13
Registered User
I am thinking they still need to be in on Brent Rooker. He is exactly the kind of bat they need in LF.
Getting death threats from aggrieved gamblers, MLB players starting to fear for their safety
Major leaguers are getting concerned for their safety from gamblers since MLB and gambling companies have joined forces.
www.usatoday.com
Just for fun, I decided to compare the current Jays to the 2015 Jays Pre-All Stars stats since a lot of people like to point out where the 2015 Jays were before they went on to have their terrific run. This is possible thanks to MLB's stats system.
Amusingly enough, the current Jays pitching stats and the 2015 Jays Pre-All Star, which is only a couple weeks short of where the Jays were at that time, are almost exactly the same: both teams have 4.18 ERAs and WHIPs of 1.30 with the current team's 249 opposing average being a bit worse.
The difference, unsurprisingly, is the offence: the current Jays have dropped all the way to the bottom as the season progressed, at one point avoiding being dead last only because the White Sox are so much worse, and never had their May hotstreak. The 2015 Jays, on the other hand, were the BEST offence in baseball, and third in home runs.
Just for fun, I looked at the 2016 team at the midway point, too. We know that team had excellent pitching, on par with last year's team, actually, so I'm not going to bother looking at that, but many of us accept that team was more about pitching than the offence. It was good, but not as great as 2015's.
Well...it was actually very good, too. Not the best, but 4th overall with about 50 less runs. That team actually had MORE home runs than the '15 team by the mid-way point. So...yeah, it was also a great all around team even though it's easy to forget how good offensively it was compared to the '15 team (and the '21 team).
In other words, the 2015 Jays' record simply didn't accurately reflect the ability of the team, although improving the pitching that year certainly helped correct that problem. Nobody believes the current Jays' record doesn't accurately reflect this team's performance. Frankly, a team with below average pitching and second to last offence should be even worse.
Amusingly enough, the current Jays pitching stats and the 2015 Jays Pre-All Star, which is only a couple weeks short of where the Jays were at that time, are almost exactly the same: both teams have 4.18 ERAs and WHIPs of 1.30 with the current team's 249 opposing average being a bit worse.
The difference, unsurprisingly, is the offence: the current Jays have dropped all the way to the bottom as the season progressed, at one point avoiding being dead last only because the White Sox are so much worse, and never had their May hotstreak. The 2015 Jays, on the other hand, were the BEST offence in baseball, and third in home runs.
Just for fun, I looked at the 2016 team at the midway point, too. We know that team had excellent pitching, on par with last year's team, actually, so I'm not going to bother looking at that, but many of us accept that team was more about pitching than the offence. It was good, but not as great as 2015's.
Well...it was actually very good, too. Not the best, but 4th overall with about 50 less runs. That team actually had MORE home runs than the '15 team by the mid-way point. So...yeah, it was also a great all around team even though it's easy to forget how good offensively it was compared to the '15 team (and the '21 team).
In other words, the 2015 Jays' record simply didn't accurately reflect the ability of the team, although improving the pitching that year certainly helped correct that problem. Nobody believes the current Jays' record doesn't accurately reflect this team's performance. Frankly, a team with below average pitching and second to last offence should be even worse.
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
The Dog Ate My Prospect
Some teams are putting in the work to properly develop prospects, while others expect us to believe a dog devoured their homegrown talent.
An interesting piece on the success (or not) of developmental systems and it actually says something that I think not many expect:
For all that the Jays get ragged on for sucking at developing players, in terms of how well they've done at turning guys that develop in their system into viable major leaguers they're roughly in the middle of the league when it comes to pitching and in the top 10 for position players (based on averages of WAR calculated per 600 plate appearances or batters faced for all prospects of 40+ FV at the point they enter the system). They also rank relatively similarly on both sides of the ball when you compare their WAR/600x rank and how many 40+ FV guys they had in that span, so they aren't necessarily succeeding on volume or running into one or two monsters to drag the rating upwards.
So yeah, the Jays don't churn much out of their farm system. But really most teams don't because developing prospects in baseball is hard.
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
The Dog Ate My Prospect
Some teams are putting in the work to properly develop prospects, while others expect us to believe a dog devoured their homegrown talent.blogs.fangraphs.com
An interesting piece on the success (or not) of developmental systems and it actually says something that I think not many expect:
For all that the Jays get ragged on for sucking at developing players, in terms of how well they've done at turning guys that develop in their system into viable major leaguers they're roughly in the middle of the league when it comes to pitching and in the top 10 for position players (based on averages of WAR calculated per 600 plate appearances or batters faced for all prospects of 40+ FV at the point they enter the system). They also rank relatively similarly on both sides of the ball when you compare their WAR/600x rank and how many 40+ FV guys they had in that span, so they aren't necessarily succeeding on volume or running into one or two monsters to drag the rating upwards.
So yeah, the Jays don't churn much out of their farm system. But really most teams don't because developing prospects in baseball is hard.
The way the Yanks system gets rated you’d think they’d be minimum top 10 in both aspects.
Point being, the Jays just don’t get the same helium that other orgs do when it comes to prospect rankings.
(I’m just tired of posters constantly recycling this idea that the Jays have a bottom 5 system and there’s nothing on the horizon)
Here is a shocking stat.
In 2021, IKF was 12th in the entire league in hits. I would never have guessed that in a million years.
www.statmuse.com
In 2021, IKF was 12th in the entire league in hits. I would never have guessed that in a million years.
Who Has The Most Hits In The MLB 2021 | StatMuse
Trea Turner collected the most hits in 2021, with 195 hits.
Suntouchable13
Registered User
Here is a shocking stat.
In 2021, IKF was 12th in the entire league in hits. I would never have guessed that in a million years.
Who Has The Most Hits In The MLB 2021 | StatMuse
Trea Turner collected the most hits in 2021, with 195 hits.
I see what they were going for when signing IKF. Especially when you contrast it with Chapman's swing and miss game. Good contact guy IKF.
Kurtz
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The current Jays management has been in charge for what, 8-9 years? What players have they drafted/developed over that time that went on to make an impact with this team, other than Bo and Manoah for 1 season?
Do you think its more likely that all the publications that have us somewhere around the bottom are wrong, or that a homer would be wrong?
Biggio is 14th in bWAR among the 2016 draft class. So I assume that counts, right? It's hard to say at this point since guys from the 2016-18 draft classes are just now breaking into the league (Schneider, Barger, Horwitz), so I guess we'll see how it turns out.
But, I mean... the Yankees have only Volpe in that span. The Rays have Lowe and McLanahan. The Dodgers have Smith and Gonsolin. Boston has Houck, Duran, and Casas. The Orioles have the drafting and farm system everyone talks about and they have about 4 impact players in that stretch.
Bo, Gurriel, Moreno (yes he was traded but he was signed/developed to the point where he stepped straight in as a MLB starter), Kirk, Biggio, Schneider. Plus Vladdy and Jansen were basically in rookie ball when this regime took over and were developed by this regime.
Development of position players has been well above average. Development of pitchers has been awful.
Kurtz
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The fact that Biggio can be looked at as a relative success story for this regime...
To simplify, where would you rank this regime as far as drafting/development, top/middle/bottom 10? Can you think of 10 teams that have done worse over the past decade?
Kurtz
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- Jul 17, 2005
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