Speculation: 2024 Off-season Team Discussion

[Half Clapper]

Name them.

There’s no use trading anything of value for Ceci. Fortunately, that’s not likely to be a requirement.

kesselring, szuber, Koly, Soderstrom. That is if Soderstrom doesn't jump to Europe or is traded. Ceci just doesn't fit right now...We got depth on D.

Plus, Duda or MavLam could see some games on the big club too.

 

[rt]

kesselring, szuber, Koly, Soderstrom. That is if Soderstrom doesn't jump to Europe or is traded. Ceci just doesn't fit right now...We got depth on D.

Plus, Duda or MavLam could see some games on the big club too.

Duda and Lamoureux are a much higher caliber than the hodge podge at the beginning of your post. But they are not close to being ready.

Soderstrom is a bust. Kesselring might be a decent bottom pairing NHL player if things keep going well. But adding a desperately needed veteran RD won’t hinder that in anyway. Kolyachonok is a LD, as is Szuber and both have plenty to prove in the AHL anyway.

Two quick challenges:
1) Post your top two PK units for me real quick.
2) Post your D pairs if Marino gets hurt.

 

[Mangosteen]

The double Ks are 7 Dmen at best. 4 to 5 soft NHL minutes at best is there ceiling.

 

[LittlePipes]

The double Ks are 7 Dmen at best. 4 to 5 soft NHL minutes at best is there ceiling.

If you are pointing at Kesselring, I am not sure. I think Kesselring is playing good.
He is tough, can skate, has a shot, and plays hard. average passer at this point.
A few too many penalties.

 

[Schemp]

If you are pointing at Kesselring, I am not sure. I think Kesselring is playing good.
He is tough, can skate, has a shot, and plays hard. average passer at this point.
A few too many penalties.

I would prefer someone that can clear the crease and is more defensive responsible.

 

[LittlePipes]

I would prefer someone that can clear the crease and is more defensive responsible.

true, definitely a need on this team. brings adrian acouin ( sp?) to mind.

 

[Schemp]

true, definitely a need on this team. brings adrian acouin ( sp?) to mind.

The greatest shootout specialist in Coyotes history?
Adrian Aucoin!

 

[Half Clapper]

Duda and Lamoureux are a much higher caliber than the hodge podge at the beginning of your post. But they are not close to being ready.

Soderstrom is a bust. Kesselring might be a decent bottom pairing NHL player if things keep going well. But adding a desperately needed veteran RD won’t hinder that in anyway. Kolyachonok is a LD, as is Szuber and both have plenty to prove in the AHL anyway.

Two quick challenges:
1) Post your top two PK units for me real quick.
2) Post your D pairs if Marino gets hurt.

Idk much about the pk lines, but this is what I see the top 6 lines being.

Valimaki-Sergachev
cole-Durzi
koly - kesselring

The D still doesn't look bad. Any team that loses one of their best D-man will not look as good. And, remember Sergachev can play the right side. Soderstrom is 23 years old. You may think he is a bust, but he has room to grow yet.

Kesselring is tall, can shoot, can skate, and as he gets thicker will be better in the D-zone. Koly had 4 pts in 5 games and was a +5 on the big club last year. Whether you like it or not, he will get a long look this year.

EDIT: Also, your solution for upgrading the D is to trade for Cody f***ing Ceci of all people?
hahah, he sucked in Ottawa, and imo hasn't been great in Edmonton. May as well just stuck with the status quo if that is your solution...

 

[Schemp]

Idk much about the pk lines, but this is what I see the top 6 lines being.

Valimaki-Sergachev
cole-Durzi
koly - kesselring

The D still doesn't look bad. Any team that loses one of their best D-man will not look as good. And, remember Sergachev can play the right side. Soderstrom is 23 years old. You may think he is a bust, but he has room to grow yet.

Kesselring is tall, can shoot, can skate, and as he gets thicker will be better in the D-zone. Koly had 4 pts in 5 games and was a +5 on the big club last year. Whether you like it or not, he will get a long look this year.

EDIT: Also, your solution for upgrading the D is to trade for Cody f***ing Ceci of all people? hahah, he sucked in Ottawa, and imo hasn't been great in Edmonton. May as well just stuck with the status quo of that is your solution...

I see Valimaki in the top 6 and Kolyachonok as the 7th
Utah will go with 14 Fs and 7Ds too

 

[IronFinn]

The double Ks are 7 Dmen at best. 4 to 5 soft NHL minutes at best is there ceiling.

I think you and @rt are underselling Kesselring. He is still just 24, is 6'5", and as we have discussed many times, the bigger they are the longer they take to reach their full potential. I also thought Kesselring have a very solid season last year, and expect him to improve more this season.

Unfortunately, I missed the last 12 games of last season due to being away, and did not get to see Kolyachonok's games. I know he put up 4 points in 5 games, but I can't speak for how good he looked doing so.

 

[Prarievarg]

I seem to be in the minority but I'd rather give Kesselrings minutes to Koly. Or even try Soda there.

 

[Half Clapper]

I see Valimaki in the top 6 and Kolyachonok as the 7th
Utah will go with 14 Fs and 7Ds too

This was asked if Marino was hurt.

My d pairs with a fully healthy D-core are:

Sergachev-Marino
Valimaki-Durzi
Cole-Kesselring
Kolyachonok

 

[Schemp]

I seem to be in the minority but I'd rather give Kesselrings minutes to Koly. Or even try Soda there.

That's why I suggested Kesselring could be on the block if we can get the right D in perhaps a different trade. I feel the same way now after acquiring Sergachev.

 

[rt]

Idk much about the pk lines, but this is what I see the top 6 lines being.

Try. It’s a problem.

Valimaki-Sergachev
cole-Durzi
koly - kesselring

Exactly. That’s rough.

EDIT: Also, your solution for upgrading the D is to trade for Cody f***ing Ceci of all people? hahah, he sucked in Ottawa, and imo hasn't been great in Edmonton. May as well just stuck with the status quo of that is your solution...

Our RD depth sucks and we don’t have enough blueliners for two penalty killing units. Ceci was 4th in time on ice for Oilers D, first in PK time on ice, 3rd in blocks and 3rd in takeaways. He’s a fine bottom pairing defenseman who can PK. He’s just overpaid and overplayed in Edmonton.

Edmonton’s PK was ranked 15th last season. Arizona’s 25th.

Utah could use him. Utah needs to add to the blueline. Specifically they need a RD that can kill penalties and play spot duty in the top for in case of emergency. That’s not Kesselring and that’s not Soderstrom. Ceci fits the bill well.

I’d obviously rather trade for someone like Whitecloud but his availability is questionable and his acquisition cost is significantly higher. Same with Peeke. If not Ceci, I’d be okay with someone like Clifton or TvR, instead. I’m not sure of either are as likely to be available.

I think you and @rt are underselling Kesselring. He is still just 24, is 6'5", and as we have discussed many times, the bigger they are the longer they take to reach their full potential. I also thought Kesselring have a very solid season last year, and expect him to improve more this season.

Unfortunately, I missed the last 12 games of last season due to being away, and did not get to see Kolyachonok's games. I know he put up 4 points in 5 games, but I can't speak for how good he looked doing so.

Kesselring might end up a solid bottom pairing D. He’s running out of time to be a project. I like him and I hope he can establish himself as a consistent regular.

 

[Half Clapper]

Try. It’s a problem.

Exactly. That’s rough.

Our RD depth sucks and we don’t have enough blueliners for two penalty killing units. Ceci was 4th in time on ice for Oilers D, first in PK time on ice, 3rd in blocks and 3rd in takeaways. He’s a fine bottom pairing defenseman who can PK. He’s just overpaid and overplayed in Edmonton.

Edmonton’s PK was ranked 15th last season. Arizona’s 25th.

Utah could use him. Utah needs to add to the blueline. Specifically they need a RD that can kill penalties and play spot duty in the top for in case of emergency. That’s not Kesselring and that’s not Soderstrom. Ceci fits the bill well.

I’d obviously rather trade for someone like Whitecloud but his availability is questionable and his acquisition cost is significantly higher. Same with Peeke. If not Ceci, I’d be okay with someone like Clifton or TvR, instead. I’m not sure of either are as likely to be available.


Kesselring might end up a solid bottom pairing D. He’s running out of time to be a project. I like him and I hope he can establish himself as a consistent regular.

I think this management group adds another RHD before the season starts. It will be a depth guy at best that is good on the PK.

Valimaki can be a top 4 D-man for the next 2 years until we are actually ready to contend. I see the top 4 D-core being Sergachev-Marino; Valimaki-Durzi. By 2027-28, I think Simashev will take over Valimaki's spot, where we will be in playoffs or bust mode.

 

[rt]

I think this management group ends up adding another right handed D-man before the season starts, but I think it will be a depth guy at best that is good on the PK.

That was my point. We agree.

 

[Half Clapper]

That was my point. We agree.

Well by depth I mean a guy who is more like a #7. I wouldn't consider that to be Ceci. He is still a top 6 D-man on pretty much every team.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Kesselring just put up 21 in 65 at 24yo, is a massive specimen and got time at the WC where he frequently looked like the teams best d-man and was far from bad defensively. He had the 2nd highest Plus minus on Arizona last year, one off Valimaki and tied with Bjugstad. Bjugstad was pretty much the only player we had who was a plus all year.

And this isn't to say that Kesselring is as good defensively as those players or that plus minus is a good stat because it's really not, but Kesselring has fantastic possession stats and while he was sheltered he's still quite young and has all the makings of someone who needs time to develop. There is absolutely no reason Soderstrom should be played over him, and he should be perfectly capable of holding down the fort just fine on the bottom pair. if he develops well, he could definitely be a great top 4 defenseman. He needs to learn how to use his body more. That's fine. Every player who is his size goes through that. We were saying the same things about Crouse a few years ago.

Kesselring is consistently good offensively and there's no reason he can't grow into being better defensively. I've already seen a difference from the season to the WC, even though that's a small sample size.

Do I think he's going to be an amazing PKer? No. But Utah have Marino and Cole for that and Valimaki and Durzi will probably be decent enough that it's not a big deal. We definitely upgraded our PK from last year.

If you really think Smith wants to go out and win this year, he probably should have made some better offers to FA considering how many of them were available. But giving up on Kesselring when he has way more value to us than any other team is a stupid mistake that will come back to bite us, we've only given him one proper year and you guys want to all give up on him? That's horrible asset management and Utah distinctly does not have a problem with needing PKers or defensive defenseman, Simashev and Lamoreaux are right there and we just acquired Cole.

It's too late to acquire anyone worth losing Kesselring for and that's fine, Utah will improve a bunch anyways and this should be a wait and see year.

Oh, and Ceci certainly ain't the answer. Yes, he could be traded for and would be marginally better than any other RHD option on the bottom pair, but he's also 30yo and would never be a part of long term plans here. It's much more valuable to simply take the L and develop your players further than it is to give that ice time to someone like Cody Ceci. Are you all forgetting the David Moss days?

 

[rt]

Kesselring just put up 21 in 65 at 24yo, is a massive specimen and got time at the WC where he frequently looked like the teams best d-man and was far from bad defensively. He had the 2nd highest Plus minus on Arizona last year, one off Valimaki and tied with Bjugstad. Bjugstad was pretty much the only player we had who was a plus all year.

And this isn't to say that Kesselring is as good defensively as those players or that plus minus is a good stat because it's really not, but Kesselring has fantastic possession stats and while he was sheltered he's still quite young and has all the makings of someone who needs time to develop.

I’m not suggesting we trade Kesselring. I’m suggesting we add RD depth because we have none. And I’m suggesting we need another defenseman that can kill penalties because we only have three and you have to have four.

There is absolutely no reason Soderstrom should be played over him, and he should be perfectly capable of holding down the fort just fine on the bottom pair.

I agree that Soderstrom is a non factor. I agree that Kesselring looks like he could be a decent bottom pairing player. But he can’t PK and we don’t have enough defensemen who can. We need a RD that can PK and we have a desperate need for RD depth because there is none at all.

if he develops well, he could definitely be a great top 4 defenseman.

It’s 95/5 against.

We were saying the same things about Crouse a few years ago.

I wasn’t. And these things are not alike, anyway. Crouse was a blue chip. Kesselring is a late bloomer who came out of nowhere.

Kesselring is consistently good offensively and there's no reason he can't grow into being better defensively. I've already seen a difference from the season to the WC, even though that's a small sample size.

Do I think he's going to be an amazing PKer? No. But Utah have Marino and Cole for that and Valimaki and Durzi will probably be decent enough that it's not a big deal. We definitely upgraded our PK from last year.

Valimaki and Durzi are not decent enough. That’s my point. We need another PK D. We don’t have options on the roster nor on the farm.

If you really think Smith wants to go out and win this year, he probably should have made some better offers to FA considering how many of them were available.

Huh? I’m talking about adding a 6th D. I don’t know who you’re arguing with but it doesn’t seem like it’s me. None of your counterpoints have anything to do with anything I’ve said.

But giving up on Kesselring when he has way more value to us than any other team is a stupid mistake that will come back to bite us, we've only given him one proper year and you guys want to all give up on him?

Literally never said anything close to that.

That's horrible asset management

Trading nothing at all for Cody Ceci is horrible asset management? What?

Utah distinctly does not have a problem with needing PKers or defensive defenseman,

Utah 100% has this problem for this season. They do not have four decent pk D.

Simashev and Lamoreaux are right there and we just acquired Cole.

Cole is one player, not two players. That’s the problem. Simashev and Lamoureux are not right there. Neither are NHL players this season.

It's too late to acquire anyone worth losing Kesselring for and that's fine, Utah will improve a bunch anyways and this should be a wait and see year.

Not suggesting we lose Kesselring.

Oh, and Ceci certainly ain't the answer. Yes, he could be traded for and would be marginally better than any other RHD option on the bottom pair, but he's also 30yo and would never be a part of long term plans here.

Who said anything about long term plans?

It's much more valuable to simply take the L and develop your players further than it is to give that ice time to someone like Cody Ceci. Are you all forgetting the David Moss days?

Those players don’t exist. That’s a fine theory and one I’d totally agree with philosophically but it has no application this season. Soderstrom is cooked and there’s literally nothing on the right side apart from first year pro Maveric Lamoureux.

 

[rt]

EDIT: @Dead Coyote - I guess I just had a long day and/or I’m a huge narcissist. I see now that you didn’t quote me. So I’m guessing only some of your reply was to me (the Ceci part, I suspect) and much of the rest was addressing other posters who made more disparaging remarks about Kesselring. I was confused and now I see why. It’s because I’m dumb.

My bad.

Well by depth I mean a guy who is more like a #7. I wouldn't consider that to be Ceci. He is still a top 6 D-man on pretty much every team.

I want a 5-6. You want a 7. I think we should fist fight.

 

[Dead Coyote]

EDIT: @Dead Coyote - I guess I just had a long day and/or I’m a huge narcissist. I see now that you didn’t quote me. So I’m guessing only some of your reply was to me (the Ceci part, I suspect) and much of the rest was addressing other posters who made more disparaging remarks about Kesselring. I was confused and now I see why. It’s because I’m dumb.

My bad.


I want a 5-6. You want a 7. I think we should fist fight.

My post wasn't really in regards to you. I mean, I'm higher than you on Kesselring, that's obvious. I do think that Kesselring definitely has potential to be a top 4 and is by far ahead of any other RD we have not named Durzi and Marino. And even then I don't think it's crazy to think he could develop into better guys than them. The offense is already there as is the shot and with some more minutes I think he could probably double his points. The defense is decent but not amazing but is improved and there should be asbolutely no reason he can't at least clear the crease and hit guys. That's valuable to Utah. There sure as shit isn't anyone else on the team who does it well.

I also don't think Ceci is what this team needs.

Like yes, he is undoubtedly better than what they have, but is Utah not having a 4th PKer really going to be a huge deal? Are they going to miss the playoffs because of it? Are they going to not win the cup because of it? Does anyone care if they don't make the playoffs again this year?

My point of view here is that Smith said he wanted to win. Seems like he wanted to make a splash. Improve the team. Move on from the rebuild.

Well, Sergachev happened. That was a splash. Did the team improve? A bit, yes. Has the team moved on from the rebuild? Nope! Not even a little bit. Geekie was a great prospect but he was a project who may never make it and last I checked GMBA still has about a billion picks.

Utah's FA signings were....Ian Cole and Kevin Stenlund.

Stamkos? Nope.
Pesce and Skjei? Nope.
Marchessault and the 30 other wingers available? Also nope.

If Smith cared that much about this season I suspect Utah would have at least one top FA. The fact they don't probably means they're less invested than you think.

The team will likely get an upsurge in points in the standings anyways if half the roster isn't injured at some point and Cooley, Guenther, Doan and Maccelli all progress as players. Now, is this a cup team? No. Is this even a playoff team? Probably not! Utah is likely going to be a bubble team or sneak into the playoffs.

So. What does Cody Ceci actually do for this roster? Nothing. Hence, I would much rather have Kesselring develop further after a pretty great calder season for a 6th round pick than give those minutes to someone who might help win what, 5, 10 more games?

Now if Smith had actually signed someone like Stamkos and Pesce, sure. Team would be a hell of a lot better then and I would be more willing to give up development time for wins. Buuuut that didn't happen. Utah is very much still in the rebuild. So let's you know, keep developing. That's my thought at least.

 

[Mosby]

I’m not sure you’re sacrificing anything long term with Kesselring because a year from now he is solidly on the third pair RD behind Marino and Lamoureux. And beyond his current contract he may not be on the team altogether.

 

[Jakey53]

Idk much about the pk lines, but this is what I see the top 6 lines being.

Valimaki-Sergachev
cole-Durzi
koly - kesselring

The D still doesn't look bad. Any team that loses one of their best D-man will not look as good. And, remember Sergachev can play the right side. Soderstrom is 23 years old. You may think he is a bust, but he has room to grow yet.

Kesselring is tall, can shoot, can skate, and as he gets thicker will be better in the D-zone. Koly had 4 pts in 5 games and was a +5 on the big club last year. Whether you like it or not, he will get a long look this year.

EDIT: Also, your solution for upgrading the D is to trade for Cody f***ing Ceci of all people?
hahah, he sucked in Ottawa, and imo hasn't been great in Edmonton. May as well just stuck with the status quo if that is your solution...

You forgot Marino. I don't think we need Ceci either, but if BA wants him his contract is only for a year. The NHL is not a development league and that is where most of our young D are at. D is hard to play and even harder to play D in the NHL. It takes time to develop these kids.

 

[lanky]

Kesselring is a high quality 3RD right now. Moving him lower (or higher) in the depth chart would be a mistake.

 

[Half Clapper]

You forgot Marino. I don't think we need Ceci either, but if BA wants him his contract is only for a year. The NHL is not a development league and that is where most of our young D are at. D is hard to play and even harder to play D in the NHL. It takes time to develop these kids.

This was asked if Marino was to get injured. I understand it is not a development league, but these are not kids. These are 21-23 year old men, who can step in and play at the highest level. I have full faith Koly can be a solid #7 next year. Szuber maybe needs another year in the A.