HF Habs: 2024 NHL Draft Thread

[le_sean]

Malahkov got 40 points on the 90s Habs. Lidstrom would still produce a ton. Youd also expect any player to go through the ebbs and flows of different eras and team success, so he'd eventually benefit from the post lockout Habs that saw guys like Markov and Souray score 60.

As far as Chara goes, isn't that the point ? You have to point to a freak of nature.

I’m pointing out Chara to drive home the idea that more points doesn’t mean better. He’s an obvious player where that isn’t the case. Just like Pietrangelo>Karlsson.

 

[Seb]

habs need players to drive to the net with the puck. Lidstrom is that?? not sure.
no more guys on the wall, hoping not to get hit, take that puck in and rip it

He does drive the net and he craves physicality.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Okay replace Lidstrom with Chara. Was Karlsson better than Chara because he got 20 more points per season? Same era.

Zdeno Chara is among the most productive DMen in his generation, and is thus also not a good counter example to the claim that "the most productive DMen are also the best DMen." I agree, Zdeno Chara was a fantastic dman. He also had multiple 50 point seasons. I think you just don't know who the most productive DMen are, you've whiffed on so many examples.

 

[waffledave]

Does the Moar Big crowd think we should draft Silayev? Why or why not?

He's big but nothing I've seen shows he plays with an edge. He's not Chara.

 

[le_sean]

Zdeno Chara is among the most productive DMen in his generation, and is thus also not a good counter example to the claim that "the most productive DMen are also the best DMen." I agree, Zdeno Chara was a fantastic dman. He also had multiple 50 point seasons. I think you just don't know who the most productive DMen are, you've whiffed on so many examples.

Yes, like Pietrangelo. It’s like you’re ignoring the entire basis of the conversation. I assume you’re just being purposely obtuse.

How did the Penguins do by the way? They added elite 100 point defenceman Erik Karlsson to a team that always makes the playoffs. I assume they went on a deep playoff run.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Yes, like Pietrangelo. It’s like you’re ignoring the entire basis of the conversation. I assume you’re just being purposely obtuse.

So, I made a claim, you gave several counter examples, none of which actually counter my claim, in fact they all strengthen it, sometimes to an hilarious extent (Nik, Scottie, and Zubov being 123 in one year was hilarious), and now you're just being mean.

I think you just kinda lost the argument. It's okay, it happens sometimes.

 

[Redux91]

Karlsson was a 100 point player a couple of years ago. And he should actually have four Norris trophies.

The team also finished dead last.

 

[Team_Spirit]

habs need players to drive to the net with the puck. Lidstrom is that?? not sure.
no more guys on the wall, hoping not to get hit, take that puck in and rip it

From what I've read your guy is Iginla. Always 1st on puck and fearless.

People say the Habs passed on Michkov so they will pick Demidov if he's there..I think they passed on Leonard so Iginla makes sense as both project as gritty offensive wingers.

 

[le_sean]

So, I made a claim, you gave several counter examples, none of which actually counter my claim, in fact they all strengthen it, sometimes to an hilarious extent (Nik, Scottie, and Zubov being 123 in one year was hilarious), and now you're just being mean.

I think you just kinda lost the argument. It's okay, it happens sometimes.

Wow, they were 1-2-3 one year. I guess Jamie Benn is a perennial Art Ross candidate.

Again, you’re completely twisting the argument because you thought people would be like “yeah Karlsson! Pietrangelo sucks” but no one agrees.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Wow, they were 1-2-3 one year. I guess Jamie Benn is a perennial Art Ross candidate.

This is getting embarrassing lol.

 

[le_sean]

This is getting embarrassing lol.

So is ignoring the initial argument and changing the parameters. Have a good one.

 

[Andrei79]

So is ignoring the initial argument and changing the parameters. Have a good one.

The initial argument was that the best defensemen are also the most productive ones. It's a tough argument to disprove.

 

[le_sean]

The initial argument was that the best defensemen are also the most productive ones. It's a tough argument to disprove.

So why do they rarely win anything but individual awards. As fans, are we cheering Norris victories or Cup victories? Because guys like Drew Doughty and Alex Pietrangelo contribute to team success more than guys like Quinn Hughes and Erik Karlsson.

Waiting for someone to say “but Drew is productive”. 36 points and 37 points the two seasons his team won the Cup.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Quick poll, top 3 Canadiens defencemen of the past 20 years.

 

[waitin425]

Quick poll, top 3 Canadiens defencemen of the past 20 years.

Markov, Subban, Weber

 

[ReHabs]

The initial argument was that the best defensemen are also the most productive ones. It's a tough argument to disprove.

In the NHL, I could see it both ways or either way. It largely depends on the delta(production) and impact/size. Karlsson over Chara, in their primes, is a tough choice.

That said, when looking at prospects I would focus more on fundamentals than raw output. Dickinson is known as a total-package defender, while the higher scoring Parekh has a few more questions of his defensive instincts.

Hate to show my ass but what made me get it wrong with Slaf was that his highlights and his scouting reports didn't convince me that his low output was necessarily surmountable. My understanding of his fundamentals didn't convince me, so I felt it was doomed without a lot of work.

He's big but nothing I've seen shows he plays with an edge. He's not Chara.

Chara wasn't Chara as a prospect either.

 

[Balthazar]

The biggest difference pre-combine vs post-combine is now everywhere we look Lindstrom doesn't get past CBJ at #4 and appears to be a possibility at #2 and #3 as well.

Not good.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The biggest difference pre-combine vs post-combine is now everywhere we look Lindstrom doesn't get past CBJ at #4 and appears to be a possibility at #2 and #3 as well.

Not good.

Forget Lindstrom, we aren't getting him - we would need CBJ to go Sennecke.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Markov, Subban, Weber

Agreed 100%.

Also 1,2, and 4 in dman scoring for us in that time.

 

[Jaynki]

The biggest difference pre-combine vs post-combine is now everywhere we look Lindstrom doesn't get past CBJ at #4 and appears to be a possibility at #2 and #3 as well.

Not good.

Lot of bluffs going on too.

Demidov is also a faller right now and is likely available at 5.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Forget Lindstrom, we aren't getting him - we would need CBJ to go Sennecke.

We need to start a support group, because we all want him and it just ain't happening.

 

[Schooner Guy]

He's big but nothing I've seen shows he plays with an edge. He's not Chara.

He's a far better skater than Chara and is a better all around dman at the same age but not many played with Chara's edge. The player Chara became was one of a kind though and his leadership was off the charts. To this day he and Bergeron are still largely responsible for the Bruins existing culture of leadership and putting the team first.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Nhl.com had their 2 mocks. Habs got Demidov at 5 and Greentree at 26.

The other one they got Lindstrom and Gill.

 

[le_sean]

Agreed 100%.

Also 1,2, and 4 in dman scoring for us in that time.

Great argument, picking a team that hasn’t had any talent or team success the last 20 years. Really driving home your point

Did Sheldon Souray have the best season for a Habs defenceman in the last 20 years? Was Matheson Top 5?

 

[WeThreeKings]

We need to start a support group, because we all want him and it just ain't happening.

If the medicals were dubious enough but sounds like the concern is gone.. so big potential center who is a great athlete on an upward trajectory? Just really hard to see that getting out of the top 4.