HF Habs: 2024 NHL Draft Thread

[SannywithoutCompy]

There's 10 players better than Catton in this draft on a BPA basis. Of course, I'm not basing anything on Newhook being there, but we have a limited window to form a team that will unlock the next level, and in that window, you absolutely cannot draft a role you already have repeatedly without that window dissolving. Catton will take 3 years to arrive.



Fine ain't what we are looking for. Fine = losing.
We are done with fine. Fine is not winning since 1993.

By "fine" I mean "unreal". Catton is unbelievably smart and skilled, I'd take him over anyone not named Macklin or Ivan.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

We do have a much better development staff now, so we can have some hope that they can take a guy like Catton and work on the stuff he doesn't do as well to a point where they won't be a weakness anymore. If they like him to the point where they want him at #5, obviously.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

We do have a much better development staff now, so we can have some hope that they can take a guy like Catton and work on the stuff he doesn't do as well to a point where they won't be a weakness anymore.

Catton also seems pretty obsessed with improving, although the staff interviewing him will be able to get a better insight into that.

 

[SOLR]

By "fine" I mean "unreal". Catton is unbelievably smart and skilled, I'd take him over anyone not named Macklin or Ivan.

That's your problem. It's not a sane evaluation of how he will perform in the NHL vs. the alternatives.

 

[Kents polished head]

I dont' think he is happy person

Brilliant. Not agreeing with everyone and not being blindly happy at virtually any possible pick we can make, makes me an unhappy person. Have you got other pearls of widsom like this that I can learn about myself?

What is it you don't like about Sennecke? Where would you rank him?

Personally I think he is definitely in the conversation in the top 10. In this year besides #1 and perhaps Demidov it really becomes more about flavours than quality. Lindstrom was definitely looking like a solid top 3-5 pick and he still may be but Sennecke really came on strong at the end. I love Iggy because he is such a gamer but I feel like his upside is a bit limited compared to Sennecke and some of the D.

Here's pretty much my whole take; While others have said that I have a "favorite player" for the Habs to take, it's simply not true. I really like Iginla, but would not be disappointed with any of him, Lindstrom, Demidov or Catton to be honest.

It's more about seeing way too many red flags about Sennecke than absolutely wanting this team to pick a particular player.

First, on the "uneducated" side of things;

It was reported as recently as this month, that at some point in time in the last year, there were concerns about his attitude and off-ice behavior from several scouts. Scott Wheeler went as far as saying most scouts speaking about him were often letting out a huge sigh, and feeling puzzled about what to actually think about the guy.

Then, there's an obvious lack of production. If a guy has hands that are as good as his, you'd expect him to show that in some way, shape or form, it allows him to distance himself from the pack and dominate. This is what happened with Lindstrom in the games he played, this is what happened with Iginla at many points in the season, same with Catton and even Demidov in the MHL. What you see here is a guy who struggled performing any better than 1 PPG in the OHL, and who "randomly" picked it up after being paired with Calum Ritchie. People are saying that it's because "he's growing in his body", which in my opinion is overstated and a load of b.s. I just don't buy it. It might have an impact, absolutely. But not to the extent that the jump in production between his D-1 and D year is almost nonexistant. Not even close. I think people are quick to buy on that.

There is also the fact that this guy is nowhere near as high on any projected list, and that the other fanbases don't seem to view the guy with the same enthousiasm as some here do.

So first, I read all of that. But still kept seeing how high some people were on the guy. So I decided to forge my own opinion and actually watch some of his shift-by-shift.

I tried to like the guy. I really did. The fact is that he's a lanky player with an odd skating style, who's trying to deke every opponent one-on-one like 95% of the time, and who doesn't exactly strike you as a fast player. His involvement away from the puck is also worrysome to say the least. And it's not just in the defensive zone. In the offensive zone he's often extremely passive, waiting for the puck to come to his stick instead of actively looking to get in the open. He's not particularly good at opening passing lanes. He's very often caught cheating at the opposing blueline. And most of the highlight goals he scores are just not projectable in the NHL. He's just an awkard player. The dekes he pulls off that end up being goals are spectacular, but there are very few of them I envision working against guys like Trouba or McAvoy. Guy is going to get murdered. There's also the fact that for his size, his strength is pretty darn worrysome. Guy falls on his ass most of the time he goes in the corner.

So yeah. You look at all that, and I think it is extremely short-sighted to suggest that he isn't the likeliest prospect to bust out of all the discussed group at 5.

Which, then again, would be perfectly fine if you're an organization with a ton of good forward prospects, and willing to swing for the fences with little to lose. At this point, I'd be all ears, would actually welcome the organization I'm cheering for to go with a high-risk, high-reward pick, and hope for the best.

But we're not this organization. We have absolutely NOTHING in the pipeline up front. Filip Mesar's lack of improvement is beyond concerning. Joshua Roy I won't even get into what I think of the guy, because I'll still get told that I'm "full of shit". And Owen Beck is not projected to be a top-6 forward. So this is pretty much a can't-miss pick for the organization.

Could Sennecke become a better player than Iginla? There's a possibility. Everything is possible. But he's a darn more risky pick. And I'm not the only one saying it. Most lists have him as low as mid-first round.

I think a lot of people high on Sennecke are trying to play 4D chess and convince themselves that this would be a great pick. This would be a "jury is still out pick", and I'm not sure we can afford that. People will probably come up and tell me "he's not any riskier than any of the other prospects". Which is not true. People will say "offensive numbers don't matter", but in the end, the guys who ended up becoming star forwards in the NHL after struggling to hit a PPG in the CHL on their draft year are very far and few between. You can come up with Scheifele all you want, he's not exactly the most common scenario.

Call it "Kotkaniemi derangement syndrom" if you want. I don't care. In my opinion there's no world in which Iginla is not a safer pick than Sennecke. And even a rather "boom-or-bust" type of pick like Lindstrom is safer, because of how natural and effortless his style looks and feels. And mainly because he's shown that he's a dominant player pretty much 100% of the games he played this season.

I also am tired of the ongoing notion that St. Louis is some kind of hockey coach version of "The dog whisperer" who magically transforms hockey players into superstars. I think this reputation is overdone. As is the one that suggests the organization as a whole now "knows how to develop players". I don't think there's enough evidence to suggest this yet.

 

[Deebs]

Pronman's latest mock:

1. Celebrini
2. Levshunov
3. Silayev
4. Lindstrom
5. Demidov

We get Julius Miettinen with our WPG 1st.

If it does shake out this way and everything regarding Demidov coming over to Canada isn't an issue....talk about lovely. Yes, he's going to be a couple of years removed from joining the big club but that's alright. We can slowly get rid of the tired contracts (Armia, Gally, Andy), add the pieces we want and then get him in the lineup.

 

[SOLR]

Discounting the four that will be picked ahead of our pick, that leaves Catton as one of six options in a wide open field. Take away the LDs and that leaves Catton as a viable option.

I fully agree that we need to draft for our reality as an organization but any player drafted 5OA 2024 will take at least two years to arrive and three to be relied on. Seems like it's unfair to say Catton's too far away while you covet Demidov or whoever. I like all of them, mind you, I'm just saying.

Iginla will be a physical forward, Catton will never be.

Demidov is in another league vs. Catton, so of course I covet something we didn't have since Kovalev, high-end playmaking with skating skills. It's not unfair, Catton just doesn't have that skillset.

If it does shake out this way and everything regarding Demidov coming over to Canada isn't an issue....talk about lovely. Yes, he's going to be a couple of years removed from joining the big club but that's alright. We can slowly get rid of the tired contracts (Armia, Gally, Andy), add the pieces we want and then get him in the lineup.

1 year removed, that's fine.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

That's your problem. It's not a sane evaluation of how he will perform in the NHL vs. the alternatives.

Keep it classy. Catton easily has Keller+ potential, which would be an excellent pick at 5.

 

[The Great Weal]

I was already getting strong Kotkaniemi vibes from him...reading that "needs to improve" sure didn't help

While I do agree that you can feel uneasy about late risers after KK, KK's skating is complete dog shit 6 years after he's been drafted while Sennecke's a plus skater. It's going to depend on work ethic. Will he be entitled and lazy like KK or will he put in the work to polish his game? If all the forwards outside of Celebrini/Demidov/Lindstrom hit their potential, Sennecke would probably be their best player. Of course, it's easier said than done and we do have a history of big braining a pick.

 

[SOLR]

Keep it classy. Catton easily has Keller+ potential, which would be an excellent pick at 5.

For another team buddy. Keller can skate.

 

[ReHabs]

Keep it classy. Catton easily has Keller+ potential, which would be an excellent pick at 5.

That's exactly who he reminds me of... and he's the better prospect to boot. It's mind-boggling that some wouldn't want him. I think I prefer him to Demidov even.

Iginla will be a physical forward, Catton will never be.

Who cares?

Demidov is in another league vs. Catton, so of course I covet something we didn't have since Kovalev, high-end playmaking with skating skills. It's not unfair, Catton just doesn't have that skillset.

Catton doesn't have the skillset to make plays??

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

For another team buddy.

I don't think we'll pick him. I do think there's a good chance we regret making that choice.

 

[SOLR]

I don't think we'll pick him. I do think there's a good chance we regret making that choice.

It doesn't matter what players are doing with other teams. It matters that we win.

 

[Deebs]

Catton is a great player and if we were further down in the draft order, I'd have no problem with him being called to the podium. At 5 though, I have a couple other players ahead of him. Hugo may feel different and snag'em, ya never know.

 

[SOLR]

That's exactly who he reminds me of... and he's the better prospect to boot. It's mind-boggling that some wouldn't want him. I think I prefer him to Demidov even.


Who cares?


Catton doesn't have the skillset to make plays??

Catton doesn't have Demidov's skillset, and that's going to become an argument? Like at all? Okay, I'm wasting my time here. These two are not in the same league.

We need a physical, 30-goal scorer in the top 6, more than another small forward. Who cares? us if we want to win. That's Iginla, Lindstrom or Sennecke.

Or we need a tremendous playmaker with speed that will score the important goals when things are tight. That's Demidov.

These 4 players are way ahead of Catton for the habs. Because we have these roles open.

Then I'd take the top 5 D ahead of Catton as well, just as a bank for value for trades.
Dickinson, Levshunov, Silayev, Buuim, Yakemchuck

 

[ReHabs]

Catton doesn't have Demidov's skillset, and that's going to become an argument? Like at all? Okay, I'm wasting my time here. These two are not in the same league.

Debating Catton vs Demidov is certainly a worthwhile and fun discussion. Falsely claiming that Catton is too far away (but Demidov isn't?) or that we absolutely need to draft a physical player (and Demidov is a physical player?) with the 5OA is not the discussion. So maybe it is a waste of time talking with someone who doesn't want to concede a simple point: you just don't like him as a prospect for the Habs. That's perfectly fine. I don't like Lindstrom, for example.

We need a physical, 30 goal scorer in the top 6, more than another small forward. Who cares? us if we want to win.

What prevents the Habs from trading Newhook+ for a physical 30g scorer? Florida's Verhaeghe was picked up for free. Their only other 30g scorer is Sam Reinhardt, acquired in a trade.

 

[Justin11]

Demidov or Catton would be the kick in the ass injection of talent this roster needs.

I like Catton and I believe has the potential to be a very good player in the NHL, I just don't think he's on Habs radar at 5.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Because he's the last thing we need to win a cup.

If we have another pick at 15 and he's still there, sure. I like him quite a bit, but not for the Habs. You can't have Caufield AND Catton. It's one or the other. Plus, we have Newhook, which is in the same format as well. Suzuki isn't giant either; we have to take that into account. If Suzuki was as big as Barkov/Drai, it would be a different story.

Look at the top 8 teams in the NHL, they don't have a collection of these players.

No more than 1 undersized, with no physical dimension, and "not fast" player in the top 6 or bust.

Obviously, Demidov is the target here:

Necas(or another trade) - Suzuki - Slafkovski
Caufield - Dach - Demidov/Lindstrom/Iginla/Sennecke.
Roy - Newhook - Mesar
Evans- Beck -Gallagher

If the Habs were to add Catton their top 6 it would be bigger than that of the 2 teams going to the Cup Finals. (Not accounting for BC’s physical maturity/growth).

Where the Habs lag behind these 2 teams is in top 6 talent.

Not sure why you bring up Drai who is lighter than Suzuki and not more physical.

… and Newhook is above average weight (for forwards) at 199. Not a core piece anyway.

 

[SOLR]

Debating Catton vs Demidov is certainly a worthwhile and fun discussion. Falsely claiming that Catton is too far away (but Demidov isn't?) or that we absolutely need to draft a physical player (and Demidov is a physical player?) with the 5OA is not the discussion. So maybe it is a waste of time talking with someone who doesn't want to concede a simple point: you just don't like him as a prospect for the Habs. That's perfectly fine. I don't like Lindstrom, for example.


What prevents the Habs from trading Newhook+ for a physical 30g scorer? Florida's Verhaeghe was picked up for free. Their only other 30g scorer is Sam Reinhardt, acquired in a trade.

Lol that's all I've been saying.

You don't get Reinhart with Newhook. Ok?
You get Reinhart with Buuim or Yakemchuck.

 

[ReHabs]

Lol that's all I've been saying.

You don't get Reinhart with Newhook. Ok?
You get Reinhart with Buuim or Yakemchuck.

A 7th round goalie and a late 1st round pick was exchanged for an up-and-coming but not-yet-arrived Sam Reinhart. It wasn't a top10 pick or a super prospect, not sure why you're saying that.

 

[Gabouch04]

All the people wishing for Catton need to realize that the goal is winning hockey game, not being a Youtube highlight star. All he does is play on the rush beating player that won't make it to the NHL.

- Vegas had 1 player in their whole roster under 6 feet (Marchessault)
- Florida has 1 foward under 6 feet (Rodrigues)
- In their top 6, Dallas has 1 player under 6 feet (Stankoven)

If you want to succeed, size does matter (That's what she said). We already have Caufied, and this isn't taking into consideration Hutson on D, Gallagher who's still there because of the contract, Suzuki and Newhook.

My point is there's 0 chance Catton get drafted by us. If you want him to succeed, you wish that he goes to a team that he will thrive. Montreal ain't it. The only team I could see picking him in the top 10 is Calgary, the other will pass. Not a top 10 worthy pick.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Lol that's all I've been saying.

You don't get Reinhart with Newhook. Ok?
You get Reinhart with Buuim or Yakemchuck.

Reinhart was traded for Levi and the 28th pick in 2022

All the people wishing for Catton need to realize that the goal is winning hockey game, not being a Youtube highlight star. All he does is play on the rush beating player that won't make it to the NHL.

- Vegas had 1 player in their whole roster under 6 feet (Marchessault)
- Florida has 1 foward under 6 feet (Rodrigues)
- In their top 6, Dallas has 1 player under 6 feet (Stankoven)

If you want to succeed, size does matter (That's what she said). We already have Caufied, and this isn't taking into consideration Hutson on D, Gallagher who's still there because of the contract, Suzuki and Newhook.

My point is there's 0 chance Catton get drafted by us. If you want him to succeed, you wish that he goes to a team that he will thrive. Montreal ain't it. The only team I could see picking him in the top 10 is Calgary, the other will pass. Not a top 10 worthy pick.

Yeah Tampa was absolutely massive in their top 6.

Wait, nope, they made up for it with talent.

Also talking about Suzuki like he's small when he's over 210 lbs is hilarious.

 

[le_sean]

Or we need a tremendous playmaker with speed that will score the important goals when things are tight. That's Demidov.

While I agree that the players you listed are better options than Catton, Demidov isn’t exactly speedy. He’s really agile, but his top speed isn’t anything special.

 

[SOLR]

If the Habs were to add Catton their top 6 it would be bigger than that of the 2 teams going to the Cup Finals. (Not accounting for BC’s physical maturity/growth).

Where the Habs lag behind these 2 teams is in top 6 talent.

Not sure why you bring up Drai who is lighter than Suzuki and not more physical.

… and Newhook is above average weight (for forwards) at 199. Not a core piece anyway.

Drai is 6'2 95kg
Suzuki is 6'0, 96kg.

Drai is a bigger hockey player and can play with more size. Like I'm not sure how you think about this and think Suzuki is competing with Drai in terms of size.

Habs are behind in size and talent (obviously, we are drafting 5th again)

We will see if Dach can play a full season before we include him in our top six for our cup ambition. So maybe we don't have a 2nd C yet and our effective size (ie. players in the actual lineup) is not realized as bigger yet.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Oh man, I remember that!! Exactly so, great reference.

Nikita Kucherov is listed at 5'11" 182 lbs... Berkely Catton is listed (pre-combine) at 5'10 175 lbs according to that TVA interview... but we can't consider him because we have Alex Newhook on the roster.

Kooch has a big center to create space for him tho - Point.

Imagine the Devils drafting Hughes considering his combine weight of 160 when they already had Hishier at 175lbs.