HF Habs: 2024 NHL Draft Thread

[montreal]

Fair play, you are certainly allowed to have an opposing opinion. I 100% stand by the flaws I had seen. A large chunk of the scouting community have always over emphasized physical tools over hockey sense. We as Habs fans should know that better than anyone as we are the team that drafted Tinordi,McCarron and Kotkaniemi amongst many others. I had viewed a number of his games and besides his skating that is undeniable everything else is very raw. His shot is quite weak, he makes questionable decisions with the puck ,without the puck he looks lost at times and does not handle the puck well either. I believe in drafting players that are already very good hockey players with the idea that they will only get better, I oppose the idea of drafting a player that has desirable physical attributes but is not a good hockey player in hopes that they somehow figure it out.

agreed, I have not been too impressed with him in any of the games i've seen.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Fair play, you are certainly allowed to have an opposing opinion. I 100% stand by the flaws I had seen. A large chunk of the scouting community have always over emphasized physical tools over hockey sense. We as Habs fans should know that better than anyone as we are the team that drafted Tinordi,McCarron and Kotkaniemi amongst many others. I had viewed a number of his games and besides his skating that is undeniable everything else is very raw. His shot is quite weak, he makes questionable decisions with the puck ,without the puck he looks lost at times and does not handle the puck well either. I believe in drafting players that are already very good hockey players with the idea that they will only get better, I oppose the idea of drafting a player that has desirable physical attributes but is not a good hockey player in hopes that they somehow figure it out.

You should be as critical about Celebrini too then. The kid scored just 1 point in 3 games (or was it 4?) vs good teams at the WJC after all and did nothing when it mattered the most. Kinda underwhelming, I'd say.

 

[WentWughes]

You should be as critical about Celebrini too then. The kid scored just 1 point in 3 games (or was it 4?) vs good teams at the WJC after all and did nothing when it mattered the most. Kinda underwhelming, I'd say.

Not at all about production to be honest. Production game to game for all players in every league will be inconsistent, generally speaking. Celebrini has the tools and hockey sense to become a 1st line centre and will very likely become one. Not sure I understand what you are getting at, two polar opposite players that play different positions.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Not at all about production to be honest. Production game to game for all players in every league will be inconsistent, generally speaking. Celebrini has the tools and hockey sense to become a 1st line centre and will very likely become one. Not sure I understand what you are getting at, two polar opposite players that play different positions.

It's about approach to analyzing not about positions.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

We need to draft the best player way more than we specifically need him to be a forward.

Draft the best player and the rest will fix itself. Aim for a specific and shot yourself in the foot.

Obviously, it would be great if the BPA identified at our spot is a Forward, but lets not distract ourselves from the BPA notion because of our abundance of great young D.

Taking a D as good/better than Guhle or Reinbacher would be equally good as hitting on a top F. There is no downside to either of those scenario.

I agree in principle, but how are our prospects going to increase in value if there's a roadblock at the NHL (and soon even AHL) level?

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

It's about approach to analyzing not about positions.

And your comment has nothing to do with his. In a nutshell what he is describing is a lack of hockey sense. Celebrini definitely has hockey sense. Canadian WJC team was bad and poorly coached. He did well to get the points he did. Silayev is in a better league so he may just be taking time to adapt.

Catton v Iginla tonight. Tij with 1+1.

They both finished with 2g1a

 

[WentWughes]

It's about approach to analyzing not about positions.

You mentioned Celebrini’s production and my post stated nothing about Silayev’s production and simply what I had observed.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

The moment someone uses beta/alpha unironically, they lose all credibility in my eyes.

The issue is that I am immediately attacked by people who very likely have never played the game at any meaningful level as is evident by them ignoring the facts in order to focus on someone claiming to be better than someone else in a particular discipline. There is a phenomenon of keyboard warriors saying crap that they would never have the courage to say in real life.

Like it or not, if you can not tell that Pronman is clueless then you do not have the necessary knowledge to make any claim about scouting. His breakdowns are almost comical in how stupid they are. He consistently makes egregious misrepresentations of skating ability, physicality, hockey IQ etc........the man is a 100% fraud who has never worked as a scout and is no different from your average meat head fan. Only an unmitigated moron could double and triple down on calling Hutson a better skater than Guhle or listed Romanov as one of the least physical dmen in his draft class. There are tons of examples of him making observations that are entirely the opposite of reality.

I made a comment asserting that I am much more knowledgeable than him and I am hardly alone as I also suggested that many other posters on these boards are also much more skilled at prospect evaluation than Pronman. The next thing that happens is personal attacks from people who just can't stand to deal with competent, confident people and the reasons for their disdain should be obvious and it is not because they share the same traits.

I am no hockey savant nor have I ever claimed to be but I am not a spineless wimp who finds confidence in others to be offensive. I admire people who are confident and take the time to offer nuanced and balanced explanations to support their theories. I guess too many people prefer Tik Tok style babble where nobody provides contact and you either imitate or attack but never learn or teach. This clearly was a signal for a specific group to attack and you may not appreciate that I referred to them as Beta's but Alpha's don't feel threatened by confidence and it was confidence that triggered the attack. I do not typically categorize people in this way but that was the most accurate way to identify a common trait among a group of people who were exhibiting very specific and predictable behaviour.

You and I usually seem to be in agreement so hopefully I have provided more clarity on my position and in particular my reaction.

 

[WentWughes]

Silayev is much harder to play against than Parekh who barely even attempts to defend.

It is honestly a crap shoot with all of the top dmen in this draft as there is not a bonafied stud who you can pencil in to your top pairing which is not to say that none of them can become that but that there are such widely diverging opinions on each of them and to make a claim with any air of certainty is just blind posturing. I am not saying that nobody should make bold claims on a message board lol, but whether they are correct or entirely wrong, the outcome will have little to do with any posters perceived ability to identify the best dman.....it will be almost entirely luck.

I personally have Levshunov and Dickinson as my two favourites among the dmen but I have not seen Levshunov live and have not interviewed either player nor have I spoke to their coaches, teammates, parents, trainers etc so much like everyone else on this board it renders my opinion as being of little importance.

All of the iso vids and reading reports from people who are pretending to be scouts but by in large are grossly incompetent leave all of us at a disadvantage relative to pro scouts.

Calling Silayev horrendous among other hyperbole laced negative proclamations is ridiculous when he is player in a better league with better players than any of the other dmen who are being mentioned at the top of the draft. Perhaps tempering such rants by acknowledging some context and avoiding nihilistic rabbit holes would serve the overall level of discussion around here well.

Perhaps horrendous Is a little extreme. I acknowledge he is playing in a top league but based on what I have seen I have not been impressed. But take my opinion with a grain of salt because I am no expert scout like Pronman or anything.

 

[SwiftyHab]

Demidov for me but I’d be over f***in joyed with Lindstrom too…it’s literally win win

yes but only if we lose lose

 

[calder candidate]

The player I want is Lindstrom, he is a FW, he is big 6’4’’ and he use is size, he is fast but not just in open ice he able to separate in tigh spaces, he able to gain the zone but not just with is speed or one on one he able to manipulate the D. He might not be the most creative play maker but he is effective, he can create havoc using a combination of all is skills in synergy.

 

[David Suzuki]

Gabe Smith - 6'4 centre, low points, but improved from last year.

He mainly plays as a winger IIRC. I've only been to 2-3 games this year, but I've always seen him on the wing. He's huge and lanky, has to grow into his body. Doubt he'll get drafted but at his size with even a tiny bit of ability I guess you never know.

I liked him in the playoffs last year, certainly not afraid to throw the body which is nice for a 16/17 year old. Would love them to invite him to the development camp before I use a pick on him though, much as I'd love to have a New Brunswick prospect in the ranks.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

He mainly plays as a winger IIRC. I've only been to 2-3 games this year, but I've always seen him on the wing. He's huge and lanky, has to grow into his body. Doubt he'll get drafted but at his size with even a tiny bit of ability I guess you never know.

I liked him in the playoffs last year, certainly not afraid to throw the body which is nice for a 16/17 year old. Would love them to invite him to the development camp before I use a pick on him though, much as I'd love to have a New Brunswick prospect in the ranks.

Sounds like a good target in the 7th round.

 

[sampollock]

The center depth is atrocious. Sad Newhook is coming back right away, would have been nice to go on a two week tailspin

The player I want is Lindstrom, he is a FW, he is big 6’4’’ and he use is size, he is fast but not just in open ice he able to separate in tigh spaces, he able to gain the zone but not just with is speed or one on one he able to manipulate the D. He might not be the most creative play maker but he is effective, he can create havoc using a combination of all is skills in synergy.

yup, he would be a great pick

 

[FrankMTL]

If Tij Iginla continues to produce this way, watch out. He will be in the conversation in the Top 10 for sure (if he isn't already). He's on pace for 48 goals in 64 games. He's also a young player in this draft with an August birthday.

I almost feel like it would be funny to draft him right before the Flames pick if we pick before them.

Can you imagine their reactions?

 

[SOLR]

The issue is that I am immediately attacked by people who very likely have never played the game at any meaningful level as is evident by them ignoring the facts in order to focus on someone claiming to be better than someone else in a particular discipline. There is a phenomenon of keyboard warriors saying crap that they would never have the courage to say in real life.

Like it or not, if you can not tell that Pronman is clueless then you do not have the necessary knowledge to make any claim about scouting. His breakdowns are almost comical in how stupid they are. He consistently makes egregious misrepresentations of skating ability, physicality, hockey IQ etc........the man is a 100% fraud who has never worked as a scout and is no different from your average meat head fan. Only an unmitigated moron could double and triple down on calling Hutson a better skater than Guhle or listed Romanov as one of the least physical dmen in his draft class. There are tons of examples of him making observations that are entirely the opposite of reality.

I made a comment asserting that I am much more knowledgeable than him and I am hardly alone as I also suggested that many other posters on these boards are also much more skilled at prospect evaluation than Pronman. The next thing that happens is personal attacks from people who just can't stand to deal with competent, confident people and the reasons for their disdain should be obvious and it is not because they share the same traits.

I am no hockey savant nor have I ever claimed to be but I am not a spineless wimp who finds confidence in others to be offensive. I admire people who are confident and take the time to offer nuanced and balanced explanations to support their theories. I guess too many people prefer Tik Tok style babble where nobody provides contact and you either imitate or attack but never learn or teach. This clearly was a signal for a specific group to attack and you may not appreciate that I referred to them as Beta's but Alpha's don't feel threatened by confidence and it was confidence that triggered the attack. I do not typically categorize people in this way but that was the most accurate way to identify a common trait among a group of people who were exhibiting very specific and predictable behaviour.

You and I usually seem to be in agreement so hopefully I have provided more clarity on my position and in particular my reaction.

Regardless what you do, you will constantly be attacked, please stop complaining about that.
It's just the immune system of society to question your ideas. I read you a lot man, you are very good. But this victim's routine needs to end, you are beyond that imho. It's a privilege to face the music, it's not an attack. It means you are a thinking person and are worth being kept honest.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Regardless what you do, you will constantly be attacked, please stop complaining about that.
It's just the immune system of society to question your ideas. I read you a lot man, you are very good. But this victim's routine needs to end, you are beyond that imho. It's a privilege to face the music, it's not an attack. It means you are a thinking person and are worth being kept honest.

Hey, I have no problem being attacked and do not consider myself a victim in any way as these attacks are juvenile and ill informed. I am only really trying to point out to those who are attacking me that they are far more guilty of being malevolent than the statements that I made that they originally took offence to.

I quite literally never deal with this whiny behaviour in real life because nobody has the balls to approach me with such nonsense.

I just add anyone who can not provide an intelligent argument/juxtaposition to my posts to my ignore list. I don't really care about their remarks on a personal level but do feel the need to hold them accountable for illogical and cowardly behaviour before erasing them from my end of the discussion.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Do you think it's better if Habs use assets to move up with their high pick or to move up with their lower pick if jets end up around 20?

 

[skidcells]

Do you think it's better if Habs use assets to move up with their high pick or to move up with their lower pick if jets end up around 20?

Use assets to move up with any one of our picks. We have depth in the prospect pool. We lack top end talent (I.e a true star).

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

let's now talk about late first choices we might make...

Any reports on Dean Létourneau? 6’6’ center I’ve seen as a second rounder listed on some drafts.

 

[jrom]

Do you think it's better if Habs use assets to move up with their high pick or to move up with their lower pick if jets end up around 20?

I think it really depends on draft order and what teams before us are doing. I hope they're willing to pay the price to move up 1-2 slots if it means grabbing guys like Demidov or Lindstrom but if we get lucky with the top of the draft why not use it with the other pick, again depending on who's still available.

 

[Mrb1p]

Do you think it's better if Habs use assets to move up with their high pick or to move up with their lower pick if jets end up around 20?

Quality is the name of the game for the Habs. We need to pick high.

 

[HuGort]

I had watched several shift by shift videos and I am desperately hoping that Silayev is gone by the time we pick. Great skating and huge guy but he is horrendous, not overly hard to play against, awful decision making and a muffin of a shot. I get that it is the KHL and he is very young but his ceiling is way too low to warrant a top 10 pick. Hopefully that is another teams mistake though, my top 3 choices outside of Macklin would be 1-Demidov 2-Lindstrom 3-Parekh . Parekh has the potential to be a game breaker but we are in need of elite talent up front.

No need to worry, If he's that bad Hughes will see it.

 

[HuGort]

He mainly plays as a winger IIRC. I've only been to 2-3 games this year, but I've always seen him on the wing. He's huge and lanky, has to grow into his body. Doubt he'll get drafted but at his size with even a tiny bit of ability I guess you never know.

I liked him in the playoffs last year, certainly not afraid to throw the body which is nice for a 16/17 year old. Would love them to invite him to the development camp before I use a pick on him though, much as I'd love to have a New Brunswick prospect in the ranks.

Never seen him play but his numbers dictate a Josh Anderson type to be affective NHLer

 

[Jaynki]

If Tij Iginla continues to produce this way, watch out. He will be in the conversation in the Top 10 for sure (if he isn't already). He's on pace for 48 goals in 64 games. He's also a young player in this draft with an August birthday.

I almost feel like it would be funny to draft him right before the Flames pick if we pick before them.

Can you imagine their reactions?

Agree. He is my 3rd forward after Lindstrom and Demidov. I would not mind him above Catton or Eiserman. Potential homerun pick.

We have to consider Dickinson, Levshunov and Silayev too even tho they are D.