GMR
Registered User
There’s little doubt that Marleau will make it. I’d be surprised if he’s not first ballot.I'm not saying he deserves to get in.
Just that he will
There’s little doubt that Marleau will make it. I’d be surprised if he’s not first ballot.I'm not saying he deserves to get in.
Just that he will
I don't like that I'm forced to come to the defense of Marleau here because I don't want him in the HOF...but, hell, I'd take Marleau's 2003 to 2014 over Bondra's whole career. Probably Bernie Nicholls too.
I don't like that I'm forced to come to the defense of Marleau here because I don't want him in the HOF...but, hell, I'd take Marleau's 2003 to 2014 over Bondra's whole career. Probably Bernie Nicholls too.
Marleau played a lot of 98-04 and 11-17 hockey + old age hockey in there, compiling and low per game numbers can be a bit of double picking.
From 06 to 14 Marleau is 5th in goals scored, he scored goals like Heatley-Staal-Nash did, now I just named 3 players that could easily never make it to the HHOF so that not a strong argument to put it him, but those were good goalscorer of that era,
604 pts during that stretch that Gretzlaf, Spezza more than Perry. (again a lot of players that could miss the HHOF obviously), but Marleau was the center with the most goals in that window in the NHL, that was not a surprise pick to make Team Canada in 2010 and 2014 (which were not easy teams to make).
We should be not revisionist history it too much like he was just 2012-2020 Max Paciorretty durign his prime with a longer career around. Maybe uncomfortably close to that but clearly above that.
Bondra averaged 38.5 goals per 82 games. Marleau scored 38 goals 2X in 23 yearsHe scored 31 in his last 204 game and played almost all the DPE games and all the 2011-2017 low scoring era game.
From 98 to 04, scoring at .40 goal per games, you were in the Top 20 scorer in the league, that Shanahan-Guerin-Hejduk, above Satan-Mogilny.
From 2011 to 2017, scoring at a 0.4 gpp, you were a top 10 goalscorer, that Rick Nash-Tavares production, better than Kessel-Carter-Seguin.
That 558+540 games of Marleau career in a very tight scoring era.
After 2017 scoring was up but Marleau was old.
It is not surprising that him and Eric Staal are in that lower ggp with a lot of goals (without being Ron Francis) type because of when they had a lot of their primes.
Almost all those 500 goals with a better gpg than Marleau either played a lot of games in the 70s to 1996 window or are quite legendary scorer.
Modano-Hossa are maybe the only 2 above him that does not look good, they are full-on all-timer HHOF obviously, but played all of the DPE, also 2011-2017 for Hossa while doing much more than scoring goals.
All the others eitehr were in super high scoring era or Ovechkin-Bobby Hull-Maurice Richard-Crosby-Howe-Beliveau type of players or legit big time scorer like Tkachuck-Iginla-Selanne-Bondra-Shanahan
Yes, he was a literal multi "Richard trophy winner", that played 700 less games, it is not a big insult for a Marleau to under Bondra gpg. If you look at the list of 500 goals with better gpg, either super goal scorer or played a lot in a super higher scoring era, often both.Bondra averaged 38.5 goals per 82 games. Marleau scored 38 goals 2X in 23 years
One-way, specialist wingers are overrated and they always have been and, apparently, will continue to be...
I don't see Nicholls as a Hall of Famer, but the myth that he only had big seasons when he played with Gretzky needs to die.I can read too. I don't care about one or two seasons here or there...(where's the Maruk love then?)
I know that he and Gretzky weren't together at ES, but Nicholls suddenly had like 65 special teams points that season. I'm not saying it wasn't good...but what's more indicative of him as a player? The 262 points in his first two seasons with 99 on the team or the 60ish points per year he did for the other 16 seasons?
I'm not sure why you think that's a bad thing. The Kings were desperate for wingers to play with Gretzky, so they were willing to give up a lot. Granato was a feisty winger who was fresh off a 36-goal rookie season, while Sandstrom had already shown he could score at a 50-goal pace (in 1986-87) and would go on to score at a 50-goal pace twice with L.A., and have a 99-point pace season with Pittsburgh in 1996. They were both younger than Nicholls, too.He was so valuable following the 150 point season that he was immediately dealt for Granato and Sandstrom...
I can read too. I don't care about one or two seasons here or there...(where's the Maruk love then?)
I know that he and Gretzky weren't together at ES, but Nicholls suddenly had like 65 special teams points that season. I'm not saying it wasn't good...but what's more indicative of him as a player? The 262 points in his first two seasons with 99 on the team or the 60ish points per year he did for the other 16 seasons?
He was so valuable following the 150 point season that he was immediately dealt for Granato and Sandstrom...
He might have cracked the top 20 in a season or two, but he was never near the top 10.You just know Marleau is going in. This generations Dave Andreychuk.
Was Marleau ever a top 20 player in the league at any point in his career?
I don't see Nicholls as a Hall of Famer, but the myth that he only had big seasons when he played with Gretzky needs to die.
Nicholls was the highest scoring forward on four NHL clubs without Gretzky (incl. NYR '91), and he was the overall leading scorer on three of them (L.A. '84, L.A, '86, Chicago '95). Could have been another with Chicago in '96 if he hadn't been injured.
Marleau led the Sharks in '01 (with a lowly 52 points), '04 (lowly 57 points), and '11, so also three times.
But this is all ignoring Nicholls' 150 point season (4th NHL) and his 112 point season in 1989-90 --- when he was traded on January 20th 1990, he was 3rd NHL in scoring. Marleau never even once finished top-ten in scoring, despite playing most of his career on strong teams.
Nicholls definitely was better offensively. He was both a playmaking ace and a goal-scoring whiz.
Nicholls was also better in the playoffs.
I will say, however, that Nicholls in the 1980s (with L.A., basically) was possibly the worst defensive forward I've ever seen. Him and Rick Vaive.... (He did get pretty good after he was Lemaire-ed.)
I'm not sure why you think that's a bad thing. The Kings were desperate for wingers to play with Gretzky, so they were willing to give up a lot. Granato was a feisty winger who was fresh off a 36-goal rookie season, while Sandstrom had already shown he could score at a 50-goal pace (in 1986-87) and would go on to score at a 50-goal pace twice with L.A., and have a 99-point pace season with Pittsburgh in 1996. They were both younger than Nicholls, too.
I think Marleau was better than Linden.
A) Occasionally, they play games between October and April too.If Marleau is better than Linden, why are Lindens playoff points per game higher than Marleau?
A) Occasionally, they play games between October and April too.
B) Linden played more in a higher scoring era.
C) In like seasons ('98 to '07) Linden has 19 points in 45 games; Marleau has 51 in 73 games in the same amount of ice time.
D) Marleau's strength isn't the playoffs by any means, but that's hardly the only measure of a player. So cherrypicking it singularly also assumes, say, Reilly Smith is better than Mark Stone.
E) This was more of an evaluation than a math problem anyhow.