2024 Copa América

[Karterthadon]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1813506649270944187

 

[Corto]

So far I got.

Enzo posts racist and transphobic song being sung by him and his teammates.

He then issues a pretty lame apology.

Argentine Undersecretary of Sports calls for an apology - is fired for it.

Argentine President: "The song only speaks the truth" and called for the firing of Garro, the abovementioned Undersecretary of Sports.

Argentine VP Villarruel: "No colonialist country is going to intimidate us for a football song or for telling the truths that they do not want to admit. Stop feigning indignation, hypocrites. Enzo, I'm with you."

...

What lovely people, why dig the hole deeper there?
Enzo did apologize, as deadpan as it was, let the man start whatever healing process he neded to do with his teammates.

I imagine if Cavani got a 3 game ban for the not-mean-but-awkwarly-worded phrase between friends, Enzo has to be looking at a bigger suspension from the EPL.
And any teammates on camera with him, playing in England.

How many people are surprised though, after WC 2022 and the songs there?
The only thing surprising is Romero, de Paul and Paredes not being in the shot too.

Still a couple of weeks of no football, at least we have something to talk about.

 

[luiginb]

If anyone expected anything different from the Argentina president.... they don't know him

 

[JoVel]

If anyone expected anything different from the Argentina president.... they don't know him

Are you really suggesting we don't take this guy seriously?

 

[spintheblackcircle]

The only thing surprising is Romero, de Paul and Paredes not being in the shot too.

Romero was on the phone while Enzo was singing.

 

[417]

Some cultural things need to be called out so that they can be eliminated. Honour killings were rampant in the Indian subcontinent until the British put an end to them. In turn, political pressure and the occasional war or two ended colonialism.

Yeah....I won't comment on that (wild statement though).

But all i'm going to say is, if you think caling out this chant is going to prevent it. I think you're wrong, there will be more chants, people will just be more careful about recording/posting them.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

So far I got.

Enzo posts racist and transphobic song being sung by him and his teammates.

He then issues a pretty lame apology.

Argentine Undersecretary of Sports calls for an apology - is fired for it.

Argentine President: "The song only speaks the truth" and called for the firing of Garro, the abovementioned Undersecretary of Sports.

Argentine VP Villarruel: "No colonialist country is going to intimidate us for a football song or for telling the truths that they do not want to admit. Stop feigning indignation, hypocrites. Enzo, I'm with you."

...

What lovely people, why dig the hole deeper there?
Enzo did apologize, as deadpan as it was, let the man start whatever healing process he neded to do with his teammates.

I imagine if Cavani got a 3 game ban for the not-mean-but-awkwarly-worded phrase between friends, Enzo has to be looking at a bigger suspension from the EPL.
And any teammates on camera with him, playing in England.

How many people are surprised though, after WC 2022 and the songs there?
The only thing surprising is Romero, de Paul and Paredes not being in the shot too.

Still a couple of weeks of no football, at least we have something to talk about.

Institutionalized racism.

 

[Brief Candle]

I just want to clarify my stance on this: I don't support the singing of songs like that what so ever, and regardless of the over-arching sentiment within it, it's extremely insensitive and in very poor taste. Two of my best friends on this planet are trans. I'd literally shank someone for messing with them if I had to. I was talking about this with some friends yesterday and made the comment "It's 2024. Change the lyrics to reflect the anti-colonial sentiment and get rid of this anti-trans nonsense. It's not like we don't come up with new songs for every competition."

As for what the VP said, I *hate* Milei ans his lackeys. Yes, there is a hardcore anti-colonialist mentality in Argentina, but there's also a time and place for a bit more graciousness which these idiots lack entirely. Big shocker there. I don't think anyone is surprised those idiots came out swinging. Sadly, politics there has echoed what's happened here in the states. The very thing my family fled from, and which I hoped would never rear it's ugly head there again. I lost family members due to people like them.

Are there racist, bigoted pieces of garbage in Argentina? Of course. Hell, the President is one of them. What I realize is that I'm arguing from the same place in a sense. Maybe I got a little hot-headed. It's the genes. It's also the fact that I've dealt with racist crap here in the states since I was a kid, so I just can't stand hypocrisy and maybe view things a bit more cynically than most due to my OWN experiences and of those around me. You are ALL right to call this out as nonsense. I get very defensive over Argentina because it's part of who I am, and I try to be the best version of that I can be. I can't say the same for everyone else, and I shouldn't feel the need to defend really bad decisions.

So, my mistake for essentially calling out any individual on here for basically sharing the same feelings I do. It's really soured what should be a time of celebration.

 

[Basement Cat]

You essentially called the USA the most racist country on the planet. That's an absurd comment.

 

[Brief Candle]

You essentially called the USA the most racist country on the planet. That's an absurd comment.

I stand by that comment. It was built on racism. It survives on racism. The very birth of this nation began with genocide. The military industrial complex has constantly profiteered from the destruction of other nations. The constant involvement of this government in the destabilization of other sovereign nations (Argentina included). The demonetization and exploitation of the very immigrants the actions of this country helped create. The lack of equal, affordable and comprehensive education to avoid "an educated proletariat" (Ronald Reagen's words, not mine). The privatization of healthcare thus ensuring marginalized communities remain unhealthy. Constant attempts at voter suppression. Our entire prison industry! Have you ever actually read the 13th Amendment? "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.". Then you wonder why our prisons are disproportionately filled with immigrants and people of color. They are literally slave labor. Go look up what prisoners produce here. Slavery never went away, they just changed the fine print. These are just a few examples.

I can admit when I'm wrong, hence why I came back and wrote what I did. Being wrong affords the opportunity to learn and grow. I don't say this to flame you in ANY way (seriously, I mean that, I'm not being sarcastic), but facts are facts, and to argue otherwise is just willfully ignoring the truth rather than taking the opportunity to step back, look at things objectively, learn and be an instrument of change. Highly advised you take a look at a book called A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn. It's a good place to start.

 

[Albatros]

And Argentina officially celebrated Day of the Race (Día de la Raza) until the 2010s.

 

[Basement Cat]

I stand by that comment. It was built on racism. It survives on racism. The very birth of this nation began with genocide. The military industrial complex has constantly profiteered from the destruction of other nations. The constant involvement of this government in the destabilization of other sovereign nations (Argentina included). The demonetization and exploitation of the very immigrants the actions of this country helped create. The lack of equal, affordable and comprehensive education to avoid "an educated proletariat" (Ronald Reagen's words, not mine). The privatization of healthcare thus ensuring marginalized communities remain unhealthy. Constant attempts at voter suppression. Our entire prison industry! Have you ever actually read the 13th Amendment? "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.". Then you wonder why our prisons are disproportionately filled with immigrants and people of color. They are literally slave labor. Go look up what prisoners produce here. Slavery never went away, they just changed the fine print. These are just a few examples.

I can admit when I'm wrong, hence why I came back and wrote what I did. Being wrong affords the opportunity to learn and grow. I don't say this to flame you in ANY way (seriously, I mean that, I'm not being sarcastic), but facts are facts, and to argue otherwise is just willfully ignoring the truth rather than taking the opportunity to step back, look at things objectively, learn and be an instrument of change. Highly advised you take a look at a book called A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn. It's a good place to start.

Many valid points, many that require much more nuance, and an overall lack of context vs. the rest of the world. This isn't the place for this conversation.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Im finally back home and settled.

The song is racist and Enzo and co were being racists. At best if you want to give them the benefit of the doubt (they quite frankly dont deserve it) they were being Xenophobic. The song is textbook racism though since its rooted in white nationalism. The comments defending Enzo from the usual suspects are just as bad. There's really nothing to justify it with and I would hope Enzo and whoever sang the song get punished, I doubt they will but if Fifa is serious about stop racism here is your chance. 6+ month ban, BIG fine to the players and the AFA and have them do some sort of public outreach program. Never gonna happen though sadly and it'll just blow over. I happy I dont know any of those guys personally although Im a firm believe most a racist knowingly or unknowingly.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Nothing new from him.

Again he was trying to give his shirt to a river fan. Lets not go crazy.

As a Scotsman, MacAllister really needs to speak up and lower the temperature.

He did and it was awful

It does feel a little hypocritical from the French Federation given their handwaving of their players’ Asian discrimination.

And to be clear, I’m in no way excusing or minimizing the Argentine actions, just discussing the difference in French response.

Yup, that and Greizmman's black face. Its extremely hypocritical. Plus this

France: Hijab bans in French sport expose discriminatory double standards ahead of Olympic and Paralympic Games

The ban on French women athletes who wear headscarves from competing at the Olympic Games breaches international human rights laws and exposes the discriminatory hypocrisy of French authorities and the craven weakness of the International Olympic Committee (IOC), said Amnesty International in a...

www.amnesty.org

So far I got.

Enzo posts racist and transphobic song being sung by him and his teammates.

He then issues a pretty lame apology.

Argentine Undersecretary of Sports calls for an apology - is fired for it.

Argentine President: "The song only speaks the truth" and called for the firing of Garro, the abovementioned Undersecretary of Sports.

Argentine VP Villarruel: "No colonialist country is going to intimidate us for a football song or for telling the truths that they do not want to admit. Stop feigning indignation, hypocrites. Enzo, I'm with you."

...

What lovely people, why dig the hole deeper there?
Enzo did apologize, as deadpan as it was, let the man start whatever healing process he neded to do with his teammates.

I imagine if Cavani got a 3 game ban for the not-mean-but-awkwarly-worded phrase between friends, Enzo has to be looking at a bigger suspension from the EPL.
And any teammates on camera with him, playing in England.

How many people are surprised though, after WC 2022 and the songs there?
The only thing surprising is Romero, de Paul and Paredes not being in the shot too.

Still a couple of weeks of no football, at least we have something to talk about.

I didnt want to defend the lot but i picked out posts seemingly from people who wanted to score points. The worst of them is this guy and it isnt a surprise. You are surprised by 3 players you seemingly hate and wished they were apart of it truly a saviour.


If you want to go down that route let us truly have an open discussion.

UEFA charges Croatia soccer body for fan disorder, racism

UEFA formally opened a disciplinary case against the Croatian soccer federation on Saturday for racism and fan disorder at a European Championship match

www.usatoday.com

How Croatia turned on activist accused of reporting fans’ racism

Croatia must face Italy behind closed doors because of fresh racism by their fans but the country’s FA is blaming an anti-racism observer, who denies reporting the incidents, rather than the supporters

www.theguardian.com

UEFA launches disciplinary proceedings against Croatia

www.croatiaweek.com

https://www.cnn.com/2012/06/20/sport/football/euro-2012-croatia-racism-new/index.html

Euro 2012: The problem with Croatia's nationalistic fans starts at the top

The fact that key people from the football federation insist that a nationalistic song is played before every Croatia match is a sad indictment in itself. But there is more … much more

www.theguardian.com

Not to mention the person in you avatar with his remarks toward black and LGBTQ+ people. So please spare me your outrage and moral high ground.

 

[Evilo]

Again he was trying to give his shirt to a river fan. Lets not go crazy.


Yup, that and Greizmman's black face. Its extremely hypocritical. Plus this

France: Hijab bans in French sport expose discriminatory double standards ahead of Olympic and Paralympic Games

The ban on French women athletes who wear headscarves from competing at the Olympic Games breaches international human rights laws and exposes the discriminatory hypocrisy of French authorities and the craven weakness of the International Olympic Committee (IOC), said Amnesty International in a...

www.amnesty.org

The blackface is (and especially then) not nearly seen as racist as in the US.
I really think there's zero racism involved here.

As for the hijab, you simply don't understand the concept of "laicité" which is a foundation of the french republic. Has nothing to do with racism. Would be the same with a christian sign or jewish sign.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

The blackface is (and especially then) not nearly seen as racist as in the US.
I really think there's zero racism involved here.

As for the hijab, you simply don't understand the concept of "laicité" which is a foundation of the french republic. Has nothing to do with racism. Would be the same with a christian sign or jewish sign.

So culturally acceptable in Europe? Also lol at the especially then the incident was from 2017. And the other incident involving DEmbele and Greizmann?

It absolutely is rooted in racism. These aren't signs its a practice of faith...

 

[Evilo]

So culturally acceptable in Europe? Also lol at the especially then the incident was from 2017. And the other incident involving DEmbele and Greizmann?

It absolutely is rooted in racism. These aren't signs its a practice of faith...

Not acceptable. I think clearly outside North America, in 2017, the black face wasn't seen as racist. After the incident, maybe learnt about it. Griezmann as well most likely.
The asian thing is different and obviously stupid.

The blackface clearly wasn't racist.

Yes, it's a sign of faith. You need to educate yourself on laicité before saying it's racist. Any religious sign is banned from the public space in France. It's also true in schools.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Not acceptable. I think clearly outside North America, in 2017, the black face wasn't seen as racist. After the incident, maybe learnt about it. Griezmann as well most likely.
The asian thing is different and obviously stupid.

The blackface clearly wasn't racist.

Yes, it's a sign of faith. You need to educate yourself on laicité before saying it's racist. Any religious sign is banned from the public space in France. It's also true in schools.

SO again cultural ignorance? Jesus.
Different how in that it was racist?

The hijab isnt a SIGN of faith it is practicing ones faith. Like praying is an act or religious performance. Wearing the David Star or the cross is different in that it is a sign obligatory for one to practice their faith.

I dont need educate myself in it I already know France has Islamphobia and racism institutionalized. If you cant see that or accept its probably better we end the conversation now since you aren't ready....

 

[Evilo]

Not cultural ignorance lol. Cultural differences. We have tons of black people here. Black face wasn't a problem until the american culture said it was a problem and then it came to Europe.

Yes, a sign of faith. As I said. And as such banned from public space.

Oh we sure have problem with racism in France. Laicité isn't one. So yes, you need to educate yourself on laicité before commenting on it. We simply don't work like the US, England or other nations on this. For over a century. There is no obvious sign of religion tolerated. You don't like it, no problem, you don't need to live here, there are plenty of other countries you can live in.
Religion is a personnal belief that should be practised in private according to french law.
If you think it's racist, I suggest you think about it a few more times.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Not cultural ignorance lol. Cultural differences. We have tons of black people here. Black face wasn't a problem until the american culture said it was a problem and then it came to Europe.

Yes, a sign of faith. As I said. And as such banned from public space.

Oh we sure have problem with racism in France. Laicité isn't one. So yes, you need to educate yourself on laicité before commenting on it. We simply don't work like the US, England or other nations on this. For over a century. There is no obvious sign of religion tolerated. You don't like it, no problem, you don't need to live here, there are plenty of other countries you can live in.
Religion is a personnal belief that should be practised in private according to french law.
If you think it's racist, I suggest you think about it a few more times.

This is such an awful and disgusting post.

Just bolded some of the more nasty things.

Again the hijab is a form of practice like praying. It isnt a sign.

 

[al secord]

I'd like to point out that Canada finished 4th without offending anyone.

Next step? World domination.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I'd like to point out that Canada finished 4th without offending anyone.

Next step? World domination.

They offended me with their awful play… does that count?

 

[al secord]

They offended me with their awful play… does that count?

Haha . It doesn't seem to take much. So I'll take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Evilo]

This is such an awful and disgusting post.

Just bolded some of the more nasty things.

Again the hijab is a form of practice like praying. It isnt a sign.

There's nothing disgusting. I'm explaining to you how it works.
Obviously, when you join a country, you agree to its rules. Laicité is a fundemental rule. If you feel like you have to express your faith in public, there are plenty of countries that allow it. So, I'm sorry you think it's digusting, I think it's digusting to try to go around the laws personally.

Hijab AND praying are both religious signs. Not sure what's hard to understand here. Religion is for the private parts of people's life.
I wouldn't expect many US people to understand this, but for example, Greece having religions courses, a Pope in a school or the US president taking oath on the bible are totally SHOCKING practises to us.
I'm not saying it's better or worse, but it's a foundation of our country. I would expect you to respect that even if you don't understand it the same way I respect the above examples.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

You can re read the first post you liked the very end clears it up fittingly.

It’s an act if you ban prayer or hijabs, why would they allow a mosque, synagogue, church or temple. If you don’t believe people should be able to live their life as they choose to do so as long as they aren’t harming anyone… maybe go live on mars with Elon.

Haha . It doesn't seem to take much. So I'll take that with a grain of salt.

I was clearly teasing